iray skin needs its own base mixing.

Oso3D · September 2016

It's really nice, good job!

I haven't played with backscatter much, it's definitely a nice result.

pds · September 2016

As I continue to follow this thread, the original

Arnold C said:

kyoto kid said:

...unfortunately until Skin Builder Pro 3 comes out (which I believe will also support SSS), I am pretty much limited to the default G3F, Josie 7 and non image mapped presets in Beautiful Skins with G3. About the only adjustments I make is changing the gamma of the map using the Image Editor to lighten or darken skins.

Cannot afford to drop 100s on a bunch of G3 characters/figures just to get different skin maps and certainly not at all up to manually convert older skins to G3 due to the change in mapping structure.

Even the best texture map under necessary consideration of PBR standards won't get you any significant improvement if important parts of the shader still don't fit.

On the Genesis 3's, change the "DAZ-dark-red" Translucency Color to a more appropriate RGB 217-133-114. That's more towards what a regular bled-through dermis skin layer's color will look like "down below".

Translucency Weight for a Caucasian 0.45 to 0.5, Asian 0.45 - 0.35 and African-descent about 0.25. (The higher melanin fractions and melanin type blends from eumelanin to pheomelanin in Asian and African-descent skin is what make their skin tone darker and their dermis' color less influent).

Load a (no make-up) diffuse map of your character in your prefered image editing software and pick the skin tone from forehead or cheek. Put that RBG color value you got into Transmitted Color [avoid "255" for any! of the RGB color channels] and set Transmitted Measurement Distance to 1.00.

Set your SSS Reflectance Tint to a neutral RGB 255-255-255 (RGB 250-255-255 for a more pale, or RGB 250-240-215 for a more tanned look).

Keep your fingers away from Glossy Color. Human skin is a dielectric, and the color of the reflection of a dielectric is always white. Plain white. Neither grey, nor blue, nor pink... nor anything else. Only someone without the slightest idea about physically based shading would do such thing.

To counter too much glossiness, increase Glossy Roughness (decrease Glossiness). Still too glossy, check if maybe Glossy Reflectivity is set to something above 0.58151 (Glossy Specular to something above RGB 63-63-63). That corresponds to a maximum in vitro measured Refractive Index of 1.55 for the stratum corneum skin layer of a human. If you use Top Coat, the default Reflectivity of 0.5 ( the default Top Coat IOR of 1.5) is appropriate.

Below some render examples [DS 4.9.2.70]:

"Victoria 7" with her default material, and one which's material set-up includes the above described changes ("Neutral SSS RT" means SSS Reflectance Tint RGB 255-255-255). The lighting on both is J.Cade's "Painter's Lights Classical 2R", in combination with the "Painter's Lights Studio Neutral" Render-Settings preset.

For the close-up a neutral Spot Light with "Luminous Flux (Lumen)": 15000.0; "Temperature (K)": 5000.0; "Light Geometry": Disc; "Height (Diameter)": 10.00; "Width": 10.00 tied to a Camera with "Focal Length (mm)": 105.00; "Z Translate": 100.00, "Y Translate": "between the eyes", and an "Aspect Ratio (Global)": W: 2.00 / H: 3.00, as recommended by Andy Grimm.

Victoria 4 can "morph into a man", and Victoria 7 (and any other Genesis 3) can, using some "a bit more physically appropriate" parameter values, "morph from mulatta (mulatto) to caucasian".

+10 :-)

This is the kind of detailed explanation I've been trying to find to better understand what's going on under the hood, so to speak. Thank you very much for this. I'm definitely of the school of thought that knowing why something should be done is just as important as what.

Daywalker Designs · September 2016

pds said:

As I continue to follow this thread, the original

Arnold C said:

kyoto kid said:

...unfortunately until Skin Builder Pro 3 comes out (which I believe will also support SSS), I am pretty much limited to the default G3F, Josie 7 and non image mapped presets in Beautiful Skins with G3. About the only adjustments I make is changing the gamma of the map using the Image Editor to lighten or darken skins.

Cannot afford to drop 100s on a bunch of G3 characters/figures just to get different skin maps and certainly not at all up to manually convert older skins to G3 due to the change in mapping structure.

Even the best texture map under necessary consideration of PBR standards won't get you any significant improvement if important parts of the shader still don't fit.

On the Genesis 3's, change the "DAZ-dark-red" Translucency Color to a more appropriate RGB 217-133-114. That's more towards what a regular bled-through dermis skin layer's color will look like "down below".

Translucency Weight for a Caucasian 0.45 to 0.5, Asian 0.45 - 0.35 and African-descent about 0.25. (The higher melanin fractions and melanin type blends from eumelanin to pheomelanin in Asian and African-descent skin is what make their skin tone darker and their dermis' color less influent).

Load a (no make-up) diffuse map of your character in your prefered image editing software and pick the skin tone from forehead or cheek. Put that RBG color value you got into Transmitted Color [avoid "255" for any! of the RGB color channels] and set Transmitted Measurement Distance to 1.00.

Set your SSS Reflectance Tint to a neutral RGB 255-255-255 (RGB 250-255-255 for a more pale, or RGB 250-240-215 for a more tanned look).

Keep your fingers away from Glossy Color. Human skin is a dielectric, and the color of the reflection of a dielectric is always white. Plain white. Neither grey, nor blue, nor pink... nor anything else. Only someone without the slightest idea about physically based shading would do such thing.

To counter too much glossiness, increase Glossy Roughness (decrease Glossiness). Still too glossy, check if maybe Glossy Reflectivity is set to something above 0.58151 (Glossy Specular to something above RGB 63-63-63). That corresponds to a maximum in vitro measured Refractive Index of 1.55 for the stratum corneum skin layer of a human. If you use Top Coat, the default Reflectivity of 0.5 ( the default Top Coat IOR of 1.5) is appropriate.

Below some render examples [DS 4.9.2.70]:

"Victoria 7" with her default material, and one which's material set-up includes the above described changes ("Neutral SSS RT" means SSS Reflectance Tint RGB 255-255-255). The lighting on both is J.Cade's "Painter's Lights Classical 2R", in combination with the "Painter's Lights Studio Neutral" Render-Settings preset.

For the close-up a neutral Spot Light with "Luminous Flux (Lumen)": 15000.0; "Temperature (K)": 5000.0; "Light Geometry": Disc; "Height (Diameter)": 10.00; "Width": 10.00 tied to a Camera with "Focal Length (mm)": 105.00; "Z Translate": 100.00, "Y Translate": "between the eyes", and an "Aspect Ratio (Global)": W: 2.00 / H: 3.00, as recommended by Andy Grimm.

Victoria 4 can "morph into a man", and Victoria 7 (and any other Genesis 3) can, using some "a bit more physically appropriate" parameter values, "morph from mulatta (mulatto) to caucasian".

+10 :-)

This is the kind of detailed explanation I've been trying to find to better understand what's going on under the hood, so to speak. Thank you very much for this. I'm definitely of the school of thought that knowing why something should be done is just as important as what.

Agreed; sometimes knowing how the watch works is as important as what time it shows on the face. (Anyone know where the reference I'm making comes from off-hand? ;) )

3Diva · September 2016

@Arnold C Whoa!! That looks SO GOOD! Is that standard V7 or the HD version?

3CPO · September 2016

@AllenArt

You managed to pull off a fine realistic looking skin there. For me, its been confirmed once again that (a lot of) patience and (informed) experimentation can yield very good looking results.

I particularly like the way light is realistically scattered through the right ear. Great job!

Arnold C · September 2016

@pds & @daywalker03

Thanks. And you're welcome. Then we are definitely of the same school.

divamakeup said:

@Arnold C Whoa!! That looks SO GOOD! Is that standard V7 or the HD version?

Thank you. That's the HD version, to have a more detailed mesh. Since the standard and the HD version are using the same texture maps, the shader adjustments will work for both.

8eos8 · September 2016

AllenArt said:

What I did differently here was to put the diffuse map in the backscatter color, but inverted it (the farther light goes thru skin, the bluer it gets). It seemed to do exactly what I'd hoped for.

That's really interesting (and a great result!) I've played around with backscatter, and hit upon putting various maps in there to prevent it from glowing white, but it never occured to me to invert the map :)

3Diva · September 2016

Arnold C said:

@pds & @daywalker03

Thanks. And you're welcome. Then we are definitely of the same school.

divamakeup said:

@Arnold C Whoa!! That looks SO GOOD! Is that standard V7 or the HD version?

Thank you. That's the HD version, to have a more detailed mesh. Since the standard and the HD version are using the same texture maps, the shader adjustments will work for both.

Ah cool - thank you. Yeah, I thought it was the HD - I have the standard version and she's not nearly that detailed. Although I've been able to add a bit more detail with some displacement maps.

jag11 · September 2016

I don't use backscatter, tends to give a washed out skin color.

AllenArt · September 2016

jag11 said:

I don't use backscatter, tends to give a washed out skin color.

I honestly haven't had that problem.

Laurie

Arnold C · September 2016

Now, that's a cool looking Gianni, Laurie.

I'd be intersted in how the Default shader setup would look like in the very same lighting. To have kinda side-by-side comparision.

AllenArt · September 2016

I can do that, but probably not until tomorrow ;) I still have the scene file. It's an HDRI, an emissive plane overhead, a spotlight on his face and a point light about right at his shoulder to tone down the harsh shadows from the spotlight.

Laurie

mtl1 · September 2016

Here's my contribution: I gave a darker red for the translucency color, and a cooler tone for the SSS reflectance tint. I also turned Shared Glossy Inputs off, gave the Backscatter a red color, and turned the weight to about 18% -- with Backscatter Roughness and Aniso to about 50%. The skin is still a little too "dark" and cool for my taste, so I'll need to do further adjustments. Then again, the HDRI *is* of a cooler color...

Oh, and I ended up turning ON thin walled for this render.

AllenArt · September 2016

Here are the two side by side. Hope ya'll can see what I see. There's more colors under the skin on the one on the left and it looks less....flat ;). Of course, it's all subjective, isn't it? LOL

Laurie

Edit: I apologize it's not larger, but the forum software shrunk it. It was originally 1800px wide.

Arnold C · September 2016

AllenArt said:

Here are the two side by side. Hope ya'll can see what I see. There's more colors under the skin on the one on the left and it looks less....flat ;). Of course, it's all subjective, isn't it? LOL

Laurie

Edit: I apologize it's not larger, but the forum software shrunk it. It was originally 1800px wide.

Thank you. Yep, the left one defiantely looks more "natural". Don't know if you already noticed, with the lighter Translucency Color the "veins" painted into the "SSS" maps, which some people critiziced to be absent, will "magically" become visible.

I just discovered that at least one skin shader creator (Raiya?) seems to have been on the right track: the "SSS" maps for the makeup material setups of Olympia 7 did contain a lighter orange instead of the default "DAZ dark red". I wonder why the standard SSS map wasn't made the same way, though.

Fishtales · September 2016

Not something I do a lot of, or even think about, but I thought I would have a try and throw my attempts out there :)

The back figure is Lillith for V4 and the front two are Mei Lin 6. All the settings for the skins are the same but keeping the original maps. The front two are the same but I turned one to catch the light differently. The first image is Sun and Sky only, second one is an HDRI inside an abandoned factory, third an HDRI inside a corridor, fourth is Medieval Tavern with the default Emissive lights and the fifth is the same only the light set to 2750 for candle light.

deleted user · September 2016

Anyone got any advice? Doing a bit of a skin study. This is without Spec Maps or Trans Maps. Diffuse and Bump Only. First image is Sky-Only Second image is Scene only. 3rd image is Dome Only.

Note: Don't mind the hair. I know it looks bad. I just loaded it as a filler.

kyoto kid · September 2016

...this is the best I can get for now with what I know without spending days and days messing with settings.

Used Beautiful Skins for Iray as the base with the only adjustment being to the gamma rate in the LIE.

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iray skin needs its own base mixing.

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