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I did this about five or six years ago in Poser.
Poser's pretty good for animation if you keep things simple. Five or six years ago, I animated this title sequence in Poser for a low-budget project of mine.
http://vimeo.com/179593570
DS's animation CAPABILITY disucssion is of course valid, but yes IK workaround and specific dance move belong in a dedicated thread...indeed
To keep it on topic, revisiting OP's post on the first page:
Yep. Many walk cycle or dance move look the way they look, not because of some animation phD or over-indulgent mother, but because of the user's skills AND artistic talent.
As Daz3D dev said in one of the recent official videos: Daz Studio does not create art. We users do.
What kind of art do we tend to create here though? Why?
Unless we admit that there's good art, mediocre art and bad art, until we dare to train our eyes to differentiate the banal from the truly interesting, until the customers are allowed to review and call the spade the spade - be they badly-economised products or basal banality posing as amazing artistic expression, things will get STUCK at YESTERDAY'S hobbyist level...
Keeping it topical....
Going from stills to animation in Daz Studio is a natural progression...
Daz crowd is finally waking up to the tool's animation potential...gooooood
<~
~> yay
Basically I agree with most here, OP included. Which is: We don't need to get a CG degree to make Minions toon (esp if one has no plan to work for studios).
But you do need to get some serious discipline if you want to go from stills to animation. ESPECIALLY using hobbyist tools.
Hobbyist tools: Daz Studio. Carrara. Poser. iClone. Blender too.
Gotta be 10X more resourceful and disciplined when one uses a tool to achieve the same goal usually achieved by pro users using 10X price pro tools.
A Daz Studio animator need EVEN MORE discipline than a Maya animator, to achieve the same outcome!
Makes total logical sense, no?
So congrats to those geniuses who hack hobbyist tool to achieve professional results!
Most common hobbyist fantasy/ fallacy: "arts" rules over disicpline in CG animation! LOL....
Sorry, burst bubble time: 3D stills is already many times more demanding than 2D stills. 3D animation, exponential multiple X !!!
The lousiest CG school grad will still produce better locomotion than the typical "anything goes" hobbyist animators. In 3% of the time it takes the hobbyist too. Using DS or Maya!
Animating in DS has many extra hurdles, even if you have the knowhow to custom your own characters/ props/ shaders/ whatever!
I say that even as I acknowledge many "pro tool" animators also don't push their $3600 Maya to their limits. Yes, I've seen horrible animation coming from the $4000 tools users. But their knowledge AND experience count a great deal - and their big money toolsets cut down time and grunt work and make life easier! Don't ever underestimated that!
One would only start appreciating the value and discipline of the pro animators and tool creators after one has pushed the tool of choice to its limits. Daz Studio or Carrara or Poser or C4D. (that's when one knows for certain the cost of GoFigure products - the plugins or the prefab motions, are value for money in the pro scheme of things)
Most hobbyist animators don't their chosen animation tool to their limits. Why should they though. After all, fun is the end goal, not money or boss deadline.
The "3 hours to produce ONE still frame" kind of DS users, I will not wish animation on them. Animation is much more than reposing sexy body parts - it's 95% time economy 5% creative fun. Add more optimization tedium for Daz Studio - esp if you use purchased content with obscene map size and map count and polys and redundant keyframes.
Optimization is a dirty word even for CG phD grads, much less hobbyist funsters...
Of course Daz3D could steer their users and vendors towards better optimization standard. Will help Morph3D too.
Imagine posing our "live" models or actors, with gravity-respecting earrings and skirts, with shadows that feedback in realtime, with hands and feet that collide automatically with walls and table and bedframe, won't be able to go back to the antique way of "object manipulation".
In the near future, everything will go realtime. The grannie time tool, stills or animation, will go the way of the dodos.
This, alone, should motivate the "still render only" users to wish for a more dynamic, animator-friendly Daz Studio.
...keeping it on topic...
After one has achieved baseline technical proficiency and passed the "convincing enough" 3D animation visual quality test...
There's that other thing: artistic talent.
X factor. Taste. Style. Connecting with viewers. You either have it or you don't.
If you spend long enough time in content creator zones (ZBrush/ Modo/ 3Dcoat/ Max/ Maya...) you can't help but develop taste and style of your own from constant exposure to artistic excellence. The culture of critique, unseen here, makes it easier to develop judgement, keen eyes, and self-critique.
Hobbyist forums are not known for artistic self-critique or honest technical criticisms, and again hobbyists shouldn't feel obliged to produce high production value. Not unless they plan to collect eyeballs on Youtube or make money from their art anyway!
Time to pick up Keymate Graphmate AniMate2 and super awesome MCasual-mates and DraagonstorMates and VWD all dynamics utilities and animate away!
That was very cute.. :)
I could now write a multiple page essay about the state of animations in DAZ Studio but the source of the issue comes down to:
- DAZ Studio needs to have its own proprietary advanced timeline and keyframing system
- the DAZ Studio API needs to be updated to make every (!) parameter of DAZ Studio animateable.
-> Core Animation functionality cannot be provided by a 3rd party but needs to be part of the official DAZ Studio SDK.
- - -
As long as those step are not put into action 3rd parties cannot start to efficiently build and provide more advanced plugins that are based on the official animation functionality in the DAZ Studio SDK
- - -
As promised, when I finished my "Legend of Zelda: Restoration" comicbook trailer, I would post it here.
Albeit I am waiting for a delivery of Corel Video ProX9 Ultimate, because Roxio 10 is so obsolete, I just can't get it to render my videos without Pixelization even if I rendered and animated in HD on DAZ & Photoshop. So, for now.... I hope you enjoy it:
Awesome ani there Rebekah
Very entertaining. . I used to play The Legend of Zelda all the time I am a big anime fan too :)
Hey! Thanks a Billion, Sad! I'm very glad that you liked! :D XD XD XD
Ditto, Ivy. Ditto! I guess, like you - I take interest in animating and making stories that interest me. I've been a hooked Zelda gamer girl since the first game was released back when I was 11 in "87." It's always been an inspiring story (once Nintendo and Miyamoto actually decided to 'Link' all of the games together into some sort of historic story/stories).
Thank you!
What would be even better than yet another proprietary system would be DAZ or a PA (or team of PAs) supporting an open source animation tool; this is what Smith Micro did with Poser 11 and the SuperFly render engine (based on Blender Cycles) and what Microsoft did with its recent work open sourcing the core of the DotNET framework. And to a degree it's what Apple did to create Mac OS X.
Jesus said in an interview that he did the animation and rendering in DAZ (it took a few months), and Blender was used for VFX. Everything was composited where it needed to be. Some people thought the hair couldn't have been done in DAZ, but he just used the movement morphs on the timeline.
This recent pinning, posing video for DAZ seems to be OK.
Jesus Orellana of Rosa is a classic case of a natural artist who has mastered his machine(s) of choice. Technically he could easily be a self-taught, formally trained, or seasoned pro. None of these mattered, if he didn't have exceptional artistry and original vision. No doubt The Matrix grade in VFX and animation.
I just rewatched it. Particle physics everywhere, amazing camera work and action editing, 2011 or 2016. Looked like 95% Blender and wonder why he even needed DS. Probably remixing stock aniblocks using Genesis (in 2011?) or gen4 rigs? Maybe familiarity with Renderman?
Definitely inspiring...even 5 years later
Strongly agree, if not already widely agreed by the intermediate-skill animators around here!
But the point of the OP is trying to make is not...dev should advance DS anim tools
OP seems to to be focusing on 'good animators could use any tools to make good animation, DS included, and being a curious artist I refuse to be discouraged by all these complaints about DS not being pro animator approved and I'm going to play animation'
I like that, and I'm also responding to OP's other points:
1. yes true PRO grade cartoons can be done - but if you actually have tried to push DS's animation limits you will max out its technical plateau soon enough (so yes don't be discouraged by the VALID complaints]
2. yes artistry/ stylistic excellence important but hobbyist tool = keep expectation very low in every sense of the word! (Yes bad taste and bad anim could drive away good taste and good animators from DS but...don't be disgusted by disgusting animation works, just look away! lol)
3. You need even higher technical skill to animate at pro level in DS then in LightWave, Maya, 3dsmax, C4D, Blender! Even if you use stock actors/ motions!
That's why Maya school CG graduates don't get to nitpick on Jesus's Blender particle effects "flaws" or "prefab mocaps"!
He's TOO good!
And the complaining animators, no matter their skill level or animation prowess, are helping to advance Daz Studio, in relevance as a CG tool in a field full of competitions!
Think about that!
So, let us minorities whine on. Because we are tomorrow's prosumer majority! Yay! lol
Anyway...
I'm glad to see Rosa being held as a gold standard of "independent animator"!
But intermediate indie animators don't have to decamp enmasse to Blender and wave bye bye to Daz Studio...yet...
I dare say, if and when a proper soft + rigid physics arrive in DS, Rosa can (technically) be produced in DS today completely without a need for external compositing!
So in that sense I'm saying to DS dev, you don't have to advance the animation toolset for the sake of advancement.
You don't have to please today's minorities...
You just have to keep pleasing the hobbyists, and make it easier to use your basic animation tools...
You can drastically muscle up in anim deot just for the sake of
- marketing (Rosa grade anim on YouTube)
- Daz3D product range expansion is worth a few meetings and roadmap infographics!
Hey I just bought some more GoFigure martial art aniblocks on sale, willing to put up with the fact they are made not for Genesis but pre-2011 M4!
But can't help but notice the dusty state of animation tools and products!
Stagnation = SLUGgish inventory.
Animation innovation = movement = TURNOVER VELOCITY!
I have no idea why MCasual's crazy amount of DS Timeline addons haven't been officially integrated already, for example...
Keep talking the energetic, enthusiastic, creatively curious ones...
That's an excellent find Wendy! A case of good stylistic consideration too. Showcasing good implementation of iRay volumentrics (and possibly Mec4D's beard products?)
Also showcasing the limitation of hand-morph hair motion.
This artist's vision could easily be made less "hobbyist" by auto-collision, integrated soft physics and definitely Nvidia Flex in DS (lol I dream)
Yep...seasoned multi-tool animator like Wendy would appreciate...the more kindergarten the toolset, the more skills++++ you need to get nice results...
That's what I keep trying to elaborate to the beginner DS animators around here...
You may think the DS intermediate animators are asking for "advanced" features you don't need - but we're actually asking for animation tool basics that will make your creative life 100X easier and more fun and more expressive!
But don't take my words for it, buy GoFigure products and tools and give your Genesis some fun exercise!
Hi Indeed thers is some really useful usage tips in the video you linked thanks
But notice it focused only on "pose making" for eventual Still renders and not Character animation.
This is where the pinning tool in Daz studio and poser will fail you straight away.
For us animators it matters little how well you can pin a foot if that pinned foot cannot recognize that the floor is on an incline
or a hand that cant be told to recognize a table top or a pipe or sword and hold on tight as the pipe or sword itself is being dragged around
We have had this ability in Iclone for over five years
video below demonstrates what I mean.
I'm posting here today to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, and especially to the authors of the four or five posts that I won't forget. In some cases just a single word stuck out, but it was a word of lasting value. I have learned from this thread, more than probably any I have read on this subject here or anywhere else, that there are other people like me, struggling with the same issues for the same reasons, while having the same questions and frustrations. And I learned a bit about how they're handling them.
It's easy to understand The Count of Monte Cristo, isolated for years, communicating for years with only one other living being by exchanging brief messages on a scrap of paper, without ever seeing or hearing them. In this way, the internet is no different than it was in 1990. I sometimes wonder why we accept it.
My only observation is - some will agree with this and some will not - is that in the end, what we create is more important than the tool we use to create it.
Thanks for a worthwhile read, people. :-)
Your comment put me in mind of something I read years ago.
When Renoir was an old man, he gave up impressionism and went back to work painting pottery in the same factory where he started out years earlier. The arthritis in his hand was so bad that he could no longer hold the brush, so he tied the brush to his hand.
+ 1
Finally found the Blender site where Jesus Orellana told about DAZ Studio's use for "Rosa" - "I used Daz Studio as the base program, everything was planned, animated and rendered in Daz Studio. I used Blender to model and modify props, as well as for all the physics like for example cloths, plastics or blood that were later added in post-production to the Daz Studio Renders."
http://www.blendernation.com/2011/11/22/rosa/
I would guess he used DAZ Studio to use the content and sets as there was no easy way of getting them into Blender several years ago, not to mention Blender's UI then.
Nice find, Kevin. The link on the bottom to the whole "Short of the Week" interview on that site is unfortunately broken. But it's still out there: https://www.shortoftheweek.com/news/interview-with-jesus-orellana-rosa/.
Thanks, Arnold!
Rosa is an incredible piece of work, and the fact that it's created with two pieces of software that are available to anybody is quite inspiring.
I'm a big advocate of the tools of art being available to the masses.
And finally - with VWD and its Daz Studio Bridge now officially launched (on that other shopping site), the Jesus Orellana animators of 2016-2017 won't have to leave Daz Studio for soft physics anymore! Well, except to go outside to tailor some cloth and plastic meshes... OMG, so many fabric ideas!
I also read somewhere VWD plan to fine-tune settings to get convincing enough rigid body physics! Super exciting time for Daz animators!
Virtual World Dynamics only works for genesis 2 and generation4 figures., theough I was told they would be updating it for genesis 3 when i wrote them. I haven;t been able to afford the VWD yet. but it is very promising and with the bridge for daz studio. that is very exciting news indeed
VWD is working with everything. You can drape Dragon 3 over a table as a nice table cloth.
The only "support" for figures is a preselection of vertices where the hair is supposed to be attached to the head. This is just for convenience. You can very easy select on any head where the hair is supposed to be attached to.
It's true!
How to drape a daz dragon!
Ok, not very good table cloth material, I confess...
VWD works with any Genesis.
VWD works with conforming items.
VWD even works with NON-UNIMESH, like those typical multi-hair-piece hair objects of hobbyist land that takes Herculean efforts to glue them together!
Notice the dragon's teeth and eyeballs didn't fall apart? That's VWD's good thinking! Try that with the unofficial Dynamic Clothing Control script or iClone Apex soft or Carrara Bullet and see what happens! Clue: popping eyeballs and flying nails and fallen teeth LOL
Majority of content and assets that come out of the Poser/ Daz Studio shops typically fall apart as soon as you move them.
Creating content for one frame still render is EASY. Just pile on the polys and maps and mesh parts. Creating content for animation use, 95% Daz Studio vendors will not pass the most basic tests!
VWD are treasures to the hobbyist community. It's really no small feat to enable non-pro assets for animation! Takes dedication on the plugin dev's part, and creative passion on the users part too!
Now Daz Studio users - still renderers or animation makers - have no more excuse for ugly blob skirts with infamous auto-trasfer crotch imprint or nonsensical hand morph hair!
is this to buy in daz shop ?