Why I chose this character, over that one...
nicstt
Posts: 11,715
I wishlisted lennon, whilst I thought about the character.
http://www.daz3d.com/hpvyk-lennon-for-genesis-3-female
or
http://www.daz3d.com/hpvyk-ashton-for-genesis-3-female
The new character was released by the same artists, and I was tempted as a good price which (imo) reflected the absence of anatomical bits; however, I couldn't see the skin; PAs the most important part of a character is the skin - at least for me.
So I rejected the Ashton character, and am unlikely to buy it as I can't see the textures. There are plenty other characters for sale by a number of PAs, I won't bother with for the same reason.
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Comments
I base it on
(a) is the vendor supporting 3delight skins and took the time to make a uniquie face morph to make me wanna dump cash
(b) if it is IRAY only if I can make use of the face morph and if the skin looks like it's worth the time toi make it work for 3Delight with Photoshop.... to dump cash and make it worth ALL my personal time... I will probably buy this product at 60% off or more
Morphs I'm not stressed over, although I use them in smaller amounts, but for me, time spent tweaking reduces the value in a way; although I always tweak, and often a lot. The textures must have potential, and be interesting withough any modification.
Couldn't agree more!!! It's why I buy more characters from other stores than here, I want to see all of the product. I find it odd that the thing that takes the longest, creating an original texture for the character is the one thing many vendors don't want to showoff. It's not about perversion or being naughty, it's about seeing what you are buying. If you are an artist that never renders nudes, then the skin isn't as important to you, I get that, but not everyone renders that way. There are a few vendors that sell at other stores also that refuse to post nude promos, well they are on my don't buy list since they either don't care enough or don't want to include when they clearly have the option which is sad because some of them do great work, but I am tried of having to fix textures in photoshop when I find they don't meet with the look I (or a client) needs after purchasing.. When I see a new character at other stores, the first promo I look at is the nude one which decides if I look more closely at the product or move along
If I had to choose between the two nicstt, I would go with Lennon as I like what I do see of the skin more and she has a unique face morph.
I never purchase a character that only looks like a slightly modified Victoria. That's what this looks like to me. It's nice, but it's not different enough. We have a ton of these characters already.
I dislike purchasing characters with the same skin textures. I've noted with Genesis 3 males a fair amount of similar textures being used and repeated. Probably common skin resource kits. Should I get a discount for buying something I already own? Ditto for eyebrows.
I can say from a PA's point of view- there are nudity guidelines here that are not on the other sites that we all have to follow. However, personally, I still like to attempt to show as much skin as possible in my previews for that very reason. I also like trying to get different types of brows from all over the place, not just MR's- but some are quite varied if you hunt them down. I've also gotten into making morphs that use little to no other morph packs so even if all someone has is the base G3 figure, they can use them, even if the pack has a specific character base for the "main" morphs.
As a customer, I like variety in things as well. Morphs-eh, I can do my own, but idealistically even if the common skin textures are out there, if there's enough uniqueness to them I will and have purchased sets for that alone and will continue to do so.
You know, I'm not sure it would be sensible, but you could always put a female skin on a male and then show the figure topless.
(Stupid, but hey)
I suspect some of the problems I have with male skins is because they are really women's skins. It is really obvious in some old m4 skins that female resources are used especially in the eyebrows. I find the tweezed eyebrows bad enough on females but on males it looks really off to me.
i don't want bushy overdone brows just normal non tweezed ones and preferably not high and arched. Just normal average straight across brows are fine
What Will said makes common sense of course but PAs should start thinking more about actually natural tonal variations and leaving makeup off and eyebrows and razor stubble in another LIE layer setting to apply if wanted. That way even Ivan & George textures can be shared with females and female textures can be shared with males. I am using a female skin on a male now but it has fibremesh eyebrows that Serene Night recommended in another thread. The lips are a barely a bit to glossy but oddly he looks as if he's wearing less eye makeup then any of the other male textures that I've used.
Vendor. I find vendors that make characters that I like and stick with them, for better or worse.
One thing you can do to fix guy lipgloss is this: my friend Nadino sent me this screenshot. I find it helps to tone down the super lip gloss which is default to gen 3 males. This might help the shiny lip issue for you converted skin
Thanks
I bought Lennon. :)
Fix? Oh yeh, I've been working my way through my purchases - been doing it ever since DRM appeared - and I found four characters from one vendor with issues; I opened a ticket. I'd have returned them but sadly they are a few months past the 30 days. And the response was, they've confirmed the issues I reported. Always glad when it isn't something I've done wrong. :)
I buy something now, it get's checked immediately.
Yeh, I've started buying elsewhere, ever since the turn of the year.
I buy most of Lyoness (not everyone on release, but many) as she now includs a no brow option, various brows, and anatomical elements. I remember asking about the no brow options and she (I hope she not he) said would do for the next character as well as include anatomical bits. So the quality is excellent, and there are options included to. A win win. :)
This is an excellent example of showing the skin texture.
http://www.daz3d.com/hongyu-s-bikini-for-victoria-7
Funny that it's about the bikini. So whilst Daz has strict guidelines on nudity, the bikini doesn't break those rules.
..How'd I miss that bikini? Thank you. :) I've started including a no brow option as well after seeing more than a few form threads about it. So far, I've only not included anatomical elements to one character, and that was before I got my grubby hands on Gen3F's- so those are included as well. As a customer, that was a major problem with me- even if I don't do a lot of full nudes, I want that choice if I find I'm wanting too. I do try to produce products I'd buy, but I also lurk in here to see what else has been posted on what people want and see if I can incorporate that into my products.
I have been twiddling in 3DL again, just to see how much of a difference it would be and how much time I'd need to render out a simple portrait (my time outside of work and life is limited) to figure out if adding 3DL would be time prohibited.
Yeah, in this case a bikini shot of the torso and up and full would have helped show the skin. I agree, if I can't see it, I'm not going to buy it.
http://www.daz3d.com/hp-yuyu-for-aiko-7 This is another one today. Does this character come with legs? I'm not sure. These shots show like half the product, even after protecting the modesty of the vertices.
I get why nudity guidelines exist, but I really wish there was a members only ie buyers option to have it turned on. I doubt anyone who buys much 3d figure content and regularly works with them finds it exciting anymore*, so members only gets rid of randoms just looking to peek and those that don't understand, and as an option, it is something those offended by humanity don't need to opt into.
* Obviously there are people who make finished images that people find exciting, but working with the figure is rather different.
If we accidentally buy a character without gen maps, they are promptly returned. Nude renders are not really common, but I don't want to have to go through every character that I think will fit and see if they are properly done or not when I do need a nude render.
And it's a nobrainer to show as much skin as the wierd no nudity rules here allow. Why would people buy a product they can't even see in the promo renders?
+1
Glad to help.
... And glad to hear that, I'll be checking out your store. I have your Aylin character, and that would be because there was enough skin for me to make a decission on; although I would prefer more. I expect that the face morph (which has character as opposed to being classically beautiful) was also an influence. I buy very few male characters. So explains why I have just the one of yours. One issue I did have a problem with, was the hair under the arms; it's very distinctive, and as many women keep themselves shaved, at least in some cultures, unsuitable for some scenarios.
It would be like Stonemason, only providing a couple of renders of his scenes, for example. Or not showing the lake in in his Fern Lake Bundle. Skin is integral to the character, but it's like folks are embarrassed about showing it off. It takes a lot of work to produce a well done one.
... Which brings me to another point; if you're (random PAs that don't) not showing it off: what's wrong with it that it must be hidden away?
I'm not saying there is, but I tend to presume there is something wrong with it as it isn't displayed. And considering the number of tickets I've raised the last few days: more than just the four from one PA (which have been confirmed as issues by customer service), that might actually be the case on occasions.
One, I assume that not every PA feels.that they should be required to buy one of the Pro bundles to get the anatomical elements for G3F and G3M so they can provide them if they themselves have no interest in doing nude renders. I will, since I know that potential customers want them when "appropriate". Two, I suspect that not all PAs feel the need to display every bit of skin they can get away with to show the quality of the skin for the character they are trying to sell, even if it might result in more sales. This is another thing I will do when I put one out.
Then they should maybe consider making props or clothing, LOL
I buy characters with an eye on the skin first and foremost, the shapes are important too, but the skin is what I look at first when deciding on a character. I have to see a lot of the skin texture before deciding if I want a character or not. If the character is covered too much in the promo images it makes me wonder if they skin isn't very detailed and they are just trying to cover that up. I'm sure that's not the case a lot of the time, but it does make me wonder.
A PA has to have created an AMAZINGLY well shaped and attractively sculpted character before I would buy a great scuplted character with flat and lifeless skin. Sadly I've seen a lot of flat and lifeless looking skins lately. Don't get me wrong, there are vendors that are creating some gorgeous skins, they just seam to be a bit outnumbered by those creating flat, lifeless looking skins. But you can often tell it by looking closly at the promo images.
Which takes us back around to purchasing characters that you can see more skin on - I definitely wish the vendors would show as much skin as is allowed by DAZ (many, do though, which is great). The ones that don't, I hope they realize that covering their characters too much in the promo renders will most likely cost them sales - fair or not.
Has anyone offered a character that isn't shown in a bikini? I don't remember any. For those of you that feel particularly witty, let me clarify that I'm talking about female characters. I fully expect Wil to show a Dragon or somesuch in a bikini.
Did you even read the OP? http://www.daz3d.com/hpvyk-ashton-for-genesis-3-female
Also:
http://www.daz3d.com/kendall-for-genesis-3-female-s
http://www.daz3d.com/vyk-sloane
http://www.daz3d.com/vyk-wilona
Those are just a few after a quick 5 minute look. There are plenty more, I'm sure.
I have no problem with them not providing the anatomical elements, but perhaps the price should reflect that; I understand that there is also a fair amount of work getting it done correctly.
Let us consider an example:
"This car will only go thirty miles per hour, sir."
"Really, why is that?"
"Well we don't want to drive faster than that, and don't think anyone else should."
A slightly silly example, yet it isn't really that silly; customers are provided with cars that break the speed limit, in affect breaking the law, and seriously endangering other people's lives, because we (collectively) want cars that are capable of reasonable(?) speeds and accelleration. The price of the cars is reflected in how fast they go, and how quickly they can get there. It is up to the driver to decide what they do with the product.
... Well the same is true of my purchases here, and from other 3D sites. Each of us purchase characters, buildings, and a myriad of other items to fulfill many goals. When items don't have certain parts, we're restricted, even though they may be rarely required.
Like cars, I want the important parts clearly displayed; and the price to reflect what is and is not included.
I think it would be more akin to not having a Nav system than a governer on the speed. But generally, our prices do take into account what is and is not included as well as the effort put into the product as a whole, and the list at the bottom of the store pages will show everything that is included.
Yes.
Sorry you were so irritated. I hope my post was the worst thing you've had to endure this week.
I'm sorry that I did not include legs in the render of my character. Yes, the legs are included. The gens are not. I will be sure to take your advice into consideration next time and be more clear when I list what is included and what isnt
I try to include as many options as I can. 3Delight, no brows, now brow options, anatomical elements and often more. I also try to keep my prices reasonable.
If an error is found, I work very hard to fix it as soon as possible. How ridiculous to buy a product and it has an error!!! Truth be told, it's not always me that is slow on fixing errors. Fixes have to go through QA and sometimes there are delays. To be honest. all of us PAs will make every effort to fix errors right away.
I'm sure PAs do, if doesn't make sense not to; having said that I've just sent in a query of a possible error on the Siara torso texture; it appears to have seams like the genital torso texture does. I'd be curious to find out if I'm correct; sometimes I just mess up.:) I've done a temporary fix for myself. Mistakes happen, that never bothers me; we all make 'em, I am only ever concerned with how they are handled.
I love all the options you give. I'm curious about the LIE eyebrows with Siara; why include them as png files, as opposed to making them extra face textures; was it to reduce the download size?
(I just used them to create new face textures to save loading times when LIE is used.)