Microsoft Announces Monthly Fee on Win 10 Enterprise Edition

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  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854

    I guess it will really all come down to what computer manifactures think will influence their sales since they are the main ones putting windows on computers.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited July 2016

    I won't use Adobe CC because of the subscription.  Period.  Not even for just $10 per month.  I am not a company.  The subscription model works fine for companies who need to "rent" licenses.  But I think the subscription model is a future catastrophe waiting to happen to the entire US, and even the world.  There are too many companies now relying on subscriptions to make their revenues. 

    I'll bet each of us has at least a half-dozen subscriptions in our lives.  Seriously, count 'em up:  Your PC+ subscription.  Your Netflix, Hulu, newspaper, Adobe, etc.  There are music software companies now doing it, too (SoundsOnline, for example).  Corel is getting into the game, Your car insurance is a subscription.  Your health club membership.  Are you paying $40 per month to not go to the health club?  What about that "insurance" you bought for all your appliances or for your car's "expensive repairs"?  Yep, it's "only" $400-500 per year (pro tip:  None of them will EVER pay out).

    Subscriptions are headed for a crash worse than 1929.  Worse than the housing bubble of 2006-2008.  All you need is 10% of your customer base to lose their jobs and you take a HUGE hit.  They'll stop paying and then Adobe lays off more people.  This gravy train will eventually run out of track.

    But corporate software (and office space and desks, chairs, and water coolers) have been rental items for many years anyway.  As has been observed earlier in this thread, Windows 10 Enterprise was never a free upgrade anyway, and I'm pretty sure that my company has been paying Microsoft a fee for every single seat using Windows 10.  Really, do you think there's any way that Microsoft isn't getting a cut of 100,000 to 200,000 seats?  And of course, this is no different from Windows Server and SQL Server. 

    Microsoft gets its money from its corporate customers via the CAL model.  This has always been the case and it's not part of some nefarious plan for world domination.  You can get SQL Server for free, for example.  You can learn on it and design databases and applications on it to your heart's content.  But once you start using it "in production", you're supposed to pay for it, and you'll pay based on how many CPU slots your box has. 

    If you want a multi-user version of it (and really, is a single-user database really a database?  I kind of doubt it... sad), then you'll certainly have to pay up first.  This is how Microsoft cultivates developers.  There are lots of free resources for new techs.

    So what will I do if Windows 10 Pro goes subscription-only?  I can't say at this time, although I can say that my software won't run on Linux, and I'm not talking about DAZ.  None of my stuff will run on Linux.  Even Linux won't run on Linux for me; it requires even more technical expertise than Windows does.

    Knowing Microsoft, an OS subscription will probably be similar to Office, where you pay something like $100 dollars and it covers 5 computers for a year.  If I had to do something like that, I could.  I have 2 Windows computers and will soon be adding another, so I could make good use of that type of model.

    But companies need to understand that eventually the world will reach a point of "subscription saturation".  At that point, the only thing people can do is cancel some subscriptions.  And yes, it will hurt Microsoft too.  Gotta find the college money somewhere.

    Post edited by Subtropic Pixel on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343
    Taozen said:

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it.

    Same here.

    OK.  I want to know how to do that!  Please!  Thank you! 

  • hjakehjake Posts: 1,274
    PandaB5 said:

    I also find that people when making arguments are disregarding the youngster's attitudes towards copyright. They are growing up in a world where everything is free on the internet and they're unwilling to pay for it. 

    I was showing a student  animation and game making software and offered to spend a day with her showing her the software. She arrived with a portable hard drive assuming I was going to transfer everything I own onto her harddrive for her - she also had a pirated version of windows on her computer. It didn't occur to her that I wouldn't give her everything I had paid for or that people were losing money because of this and that there were license fees. It wasn't that she didn't care - it was more a case of she didn't know, didn't realise.

    My computer was stolen some time ago - they broke into the house while we were sleeping - and I wished I had a button to push that would disable all the content on the computer. I could contact some companies and tell them to disable the licenses that were installed - but unfortunately in most cases it meant that all the software and graphics I had was stolen along with my computer. That's why I fully support encryption and the move that Daz is making - because I would want to lock someone else out of my content and the reality is that crime is out of control in my country - I've had 3 computers stolen and there's ever the chance that it will happen again. I want software to dial home so that I can block them. In fact I'd like a feature to activate that when your computer is stolen you can go onto the internet and disable your password and then when the person using the computer 'dials home' it blows up the computer ... I'll keep dreaming about that one!

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/veracrypt/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeraCrypt

    make a VERY large encrypted file. Install content or programs or personal documents into the encrypted file.

    tell the software to treat the file as a drive. So for example make big file on C drive, call it BOB. With Veracrypt

    it can mount BOB as your d drive. You use it as you would any other drive on your computer. When not in use

    unmount drive.  For security give BOB a 56 leter/numbers/symbols password. Keep that password in a file created by a password management program like KEEPASS and use keep pass to sign into BOB file.

    http://keepass.info/

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/keepass/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KeePass

    Keep KEEPASS password file on a usb stick and use a reasonably good password for opening the keepass file.

    NEVER leave the usb stick with the laptop that has the BOB file.  Now if if your laptop is stolen and you did not leave the encrypted BOB file open then the hacker can have an enormous amount of fun trying to get your encrypted data. Probably won't bother since he is more likely to sell your laptop for drugs.

     

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,253

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

  • ErdehelErdehel Posts: 386
    RAMWolff said:
    Taozen said:

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it.

    Same here.

    OK.  I want to know how to do that!  Please!  Thank you! 

     

    Bitlocker for example. Works better if you have a TPM chipset in your computer. Search for disk encryption software. Bitlocker is a MS product but there others who can do that.
  • ErdehelErdehel Posts: 386

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

    Same here. I got a Windows 10 pro update.
  • Dim ReaperDim Reaper Posts: 687

    Subtropic Pixel said:

    I won't use Adobe CC because of the subscription.  Period.  Not even for just $10 per month.  I am not a company.  The subscription model works fine for companies who need to "rent" licenses.  But I think the subscription model is a future catastrophe waiting to happen to the entire US, and even the world.  There are too many companies now relying on subscriptions to make their revenues. 

    I completely agree and take the same approach.  I'm still using Photoshop CS4.  I might be missng out on some new features, but it's mine and I can use it for as long as this computer keeps working, even if Adobe pull the plug.  Same with MS Office - I'm not interested in Office 365, I want software that I can keep until I choose to upgrade.  As for windows, when I got this machine last year, I went for Windows 7 Pro because I have no intention of upgrading to Windows 10.  I'm sure that in the future I may need a new machine and I may have to change from Windows 7, but I'll worry about that in years to come.

     

    Charlie Judge said:

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

    From an article on cnet.com:

    • Those of you who currently run Windows 7 Starter, Windows 7 Home Basic or Windows 7 Home Premium will be upgraded to Windows 10 Home.
    • Those of you running Windows 7 Professional or Windows 7 Ultimate will be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro

    But if you're happy with Windows 7 Pro, do you really need to upgrade?  I've heard from some people who say that Windows 10 has been great for their computer (my 62-year old mother did the upgrade on her laptop and she loves Windows 10), but I've also heard of some people who haven't been able to get hold of new drivers for older hardware.  I'd recommend doing some research before upgrading, so that you can make a choice that is best for you, your hardware and software and your work flow.

     

     

     

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,260
    RAMWolff said:
    Taozen said:

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it.

    Same here.

    OK.  I want to know how to do that!  Please!  Thank you! 

    I'm using DriveCrypt, a bit expensive but fast and rock stable. It can encrypt whole partitions/drives. Been using it for over 10 years on multiple PCs and never lost a file.

    http://www.securstar.biz/

     

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited July 2016

    My company's corporate fleet of computers are all running with encryption.  Have been for maybe 10 years now.  It's been reliable, reasonably fast on i5 processors, and we haven't lost any data to hardware problems or thieves.  Stolen laptops are not useful because they won't even boot.

    My personal laptop uses tracking software which will reinstall itself even if somebody replaced the hard drives and installed a new version of Windows.  Now it looks like Windows 10 offers some sort of "Find my PC" application too.  I don't use encryption software on my personal machines yet, but I will when I upgrade to newer hardware.

    I want to see DSLR camera manufacturers step up to the plate and implement anti-theft and tracking features for stolen devices.

    Post edited by Subtropic Pixel on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,097
    edited July 2016

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

    I asked this same question a few months ago and was told "yes".  However, I haven't actually done it.  I have four computers in the house now (down from 11) The four were 1 Vista and 2 Win7-Home and 1 Win7-Pro.  I upgraded to Win10 on everything except the Win7-Pro.  I had no trouble with any of the upgrades, and I'm accepting of the features and behavior of Win10 but I just couldn't bring myself to abandon my Win7-Pro system.  It's my primary machine with gazoodles of extra hardware installed and special drivers and years and years of programs that I've accumulated.  I believe in Murphy's Law.  The fact that something hasn't gone horribly wrong yet means that it will, at the most inopportune moment.

     

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    LG, you should probably go get your free upgrade and just don't install it.  That way you'll have it if you ever decide to move that last computer to 10.  Costs nothing to do it, and it could save you some money down the road.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343
    Erdehel said:
    RAMWolff said:
    Taozen said:

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it.

    Same here.

    OK.  I want to know how to do that!  Please!  Thank you! 

     

    Bitlocker for example. Works better if you have a TPM chipset in your computer. Search for disk encryption software. Bitlocker is a MS product but there others who can do that.

    Thanks so much! 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    Well let's not be silly if you develop for Windows or mobile and use products that are still actively being developed with the coming HW graphics improvements coming to Windows 10 and those mobile you are being silly not to update to Windows 10.

    I have the Windows 10 Pro and if they start charging for that I will start using Windows 10 Home. It's not like I'm actually using the Pro features and the security features are something they built into every version of Windows. I have started getting Game App recommendations in my Program menu and I've noticed that keep looking for ways to get Bing more search requests (via Cortana and such things). The biggest thing though if the Windows Store traffic as far as advertising goes but it's essentially the same the Apple and Google do with their stores if you have their OS installed.

    If I eventually have to start paying for Office I will stop using it. As it is, I only use it once or twice a year to exchange simple small bit of research with other people.  

  • SpitSpit Posts: 2,342
    edited July 2016
    Enh, there are good and bad elements to each model. With traditional model they have an incentive to mess around even with stuff that works so they can justify a new version people will buy.

    Wouldn't it be nice if one day (soon lol) MIcrosoft announced that

    'We have finished Windows. It's perfect so Microsoft is now going to concentrate its efforts on robots!'.

     

     

    Post edited by Spit on
  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684
    RAMWolff said:
    Erdehel said:
    RAMWolff said:
    Taozen said:

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it.

    Same here.

    OK.  I want to know how to do that!  Please!  Thank you! 

     

    Bitlocker for example. Works better if you have a TPM chipset in your computer. Search for disk encryption software. Bitlocker is a MS product but there others who can do that.

    Thanks so much! 

    @RAMWolff: Bitlocker is your best bet if you run a Pro or Ultimate Edition of Windows 7, 8 or 10 (and if you're not paranoid Microsoft being known for cooperating with NSA ;-) ), as it is part of the OS then, but not included with the Home versions of Windows. You might need to add the bitlocker feature from Windows features first, if it's not already installed. It is possible to use without TPM too and only needs a little setting using gpedit.msc then (included with Win), it will accept unlocking via password and/or USB stick (think of a door key). Simply google for bitlocker without TPM for the settings, I used that on almost any PC since Win8 came out and it works great. Just make sure you regularly backup your data, as data recovery is almost always impossible from encrypted drives.

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,603

    I haven't upgraded yet. I can't help but wonder if free upgrade will still be full of adware after the deadline date (when the free upgrade option is removed from).

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343

    I'll check into BitLocker, I have the link to the download and a site that gives a simple set up proceedure.  No, I'm not a paranoid person.  Being an HIV POZ person with my info out there in every doctors hands and whomever else has it, I stopped being paranoid.  You can control your person as much as possible but truthfully your Govt knows more about you than you could ever imagine.  Live you life and stop freaking out about stuff, it's the only way I've survived this life and this disease.  Trust me, it works! 

  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684
    edited July 2016
    RAMWolff said:

    I'll check into BitLocker, I have the link to the download and a site that gives a simple set up proceedure.  No, I'm not a paranoid person.  Being an HIV POZ person with my info out there in every doctors hands and whomever else has it, I stopped being paranoid.  You can control your person as much as possible but truthfully your Govt knows more about you than you could ever imagine.  Live you life and stop freaking out about stuff, it's the only way I've survived this life and this disease.  Trust me, it works! 

    There is no separate download, bitlocker is part of and comes with Windows, but only on Pro and Ultimate (and probably Enterprise and Server as well). Simply go to your system window (sorry, don't have an english version of Windows, so don't know the exact naming), there should be a 'bitlocker encryption' feature available. If you don't have an activated TPM (Trusted Platform Module) installed, you need to change settings using gpedit.msc program before you can use bitlocker, with a TPM you can simply start at that point. It's not available as standalone program afaik, so take care what comes with that download.

    Post edited by bad4u on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343

    AH, OK then.  I have just Windows 10 regular edition I guess.  So no Bit for me I guess.  Should be something for us lowly types!  lol

  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684

    Sorry to hear that, but you can still check on System > Info > Edition to be sure what is installed. Windows 10 Home would not come with Bitlocker.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343

    Yes, checked and no, I don't have that on board.  I checked for the upgrade.  It's not bad, just $99.00 but I'm also thinking seriously about getting a new computer so I may hold off and get that as an add on option from CyberPower where I buy my computers from...

  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684
    edited July 2016

    Yep, might be the better way then, as that option gives you a second OS so you can keep the current one for the old PC (not possible with upgrade). Or check if you can get a cheap Win7Pro for a few bucks and get the free Win10Pro upgrade until end of July ;)

    Post edited by bad4u on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,260
    bad4u said:

    @RAMWolff: Bitlocker is your best bet if you run a Pro or Ultimate Edition of Windows 7, 8 or 10 (and if you're not paranoid Microsoft being known for cooperating with NSA ;-) )

    Doesn't look like they do voluntarily:

    "Microsoft won a huge victory in the name of user privacy on Thursday as an appeals court has ruled that a federal warrant to seize email from a Microsoft server in Ireland is invalid."

    http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/microsoft-wins-big-in-fight-for-user-privacy-as-irish-search-warrant-found-invalid

  • hjakehjake Posts: 1,274

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

    Yes, Win 7 Pro to Win 10 Pro. Win 7 Home to Win 10 Home.  I have upgraded 2 of my computers already and Win 10 works fine.

    I don't believe MS are going to start charging a monthly fee for non-enterprise users.  Win 10 allows Microsoft to shift their software model to be more like Google for Android but with licencing.  Look at Samsung phones. After 18 months Samsung stops providing any kind of update to their phone. So if you want new features and updated security you have to buy a new phone. I think Microsoft is building towards some kind of model like this. Look at MS Surface, after 4 to 5 years you will have to replace your tablet because battery (not user replaceable) will be useless. Hence you will buy a new tablet and a new licence.  Desktops are becoming a smaller and smaller part of the market. Businesses will eventually treat employee personal computers like terminals because they will be tablets.  Even in manufacturing labs I am seeing multi-national customers move away from traditional desktops to all-in-one touch-screen PC for use with lab test equipment.  The lab users don't even setup the computer. It is setup by an IT person in another country through remote access.

    For Outlook and Office, MS is working towards a unified product/service where home users and small business will be $50 to $100 USD per year for full access to MS business products.

    MS realizes that the market has changed and traditional methods of making profit won't keep going so they are a trying to figure out how to make a profit and maintain a hold on the status as default business product source.  They are also seeing that micro-payments can be more lucrative than upgrade charges or annual fees.  As for lossing access to your Operating System for non-payment, they have never done that and I believe they went to court once in the USA over that topic and it was determined that they could not do that, BUT they can cause the O/S to slow down to a snails pace. So you could retieve your data but not much else. To me that seems the worst case scenario.

     

     

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    Taozen said:
    bad4u said:

    @RAMWolff: Bitlocker is your best bet if you run a Pro or Ultimate Edition of Windows 7, 8 or 10 (and if you're not paranoid Microsoft being known for cooperating with NSA ;-) )

    Doesn't look like they do voluntarily:

    "Microsoft won a huge victory in the name of user privacy on Thursday as an appeals court has ruled that a federal warrant to seize email from a Microsoft server in Ireland is invalid."

    http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/microsoft-wins-big-in-fight-for-user-privacy-as-irish-search-warrant-found-invalid

    So they go to the Irish or EU courts or appeal. It's its a legitimate investigation, privacy rights are no protection at all.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    hjake said:

    Slightly off the topic of this thread but I have a quick question about the free Windows 10 upgrade.

    I currently have Windows 7 Pro on my computer. Will this be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro or just to the regular Windows 10 home?

    Yes, Win 7 Pro to Win 10 Pro. Win 7 Home to Win 10 Home.  I have upgraded 2 of my computers already and Win 10 works fine.

    I don't believe MS are going to start charging a monthly fee for non-enterprise users.  Win 10 allows Microsoft to shift their software model to be more like Google for Android but with licencing.  Look at Samsung phones. After 18 months Samsung stops providing any kind of update to their phone. So if you want new features and updated security you have to buy a new phone. I think Microsoft is building towards some kind of model like this. Look at MS Surface, after 4 to 5 years you will have to replace your tablet because battery (not user replaceable) will be useless. Hence you will buy a new tablet and a new licence.  Desktops are becoming a smaller and smaller part of the market. Businesses will eventually treat employee personal computers like terminals because they will be tablets.  Even in manufacturing labs I am seeing multi-national customers move away from traditional desktops to all-in-one touch-screen PC for use with lab test equipment.  The lab users don't even setup the computer. It is setup by an IT person in another country through remote access.

    For Outlook and Office, MS is working towards a unified product/service where home users and small business will be $50 to $100 USD per year for full access to MS business products.

    MS realizes that the market has changed and traditional methods of making profit won't keep going so they are a trying to figure out how to make a profit and maintain a hold on the status as default business product source.  They are also seeing that micro-payments can be more lucrative than upgrade charges or annual fees.  As for lossing access to your Operating System for non-payment, they have never done that and I believe they went to court once in the USA over that topic and it was determined that they could not do that, BUT they can cause the O/S to slow down to a snails pace. So you could retieve your data but not much else. To me that seems the worst case scenario.

     

     

    My $1000+ ASUS tablet fried in 2 years.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,861
    Ivy said:

    I'm sticking with what I have for as long as I can, when i need a new build then,  I'll just retire & go back to crayons and pencils lol

    ...I'm with you there.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,861
    Ivy said:
    hacsart said:

     Yep... The biggest savings we had with Volume licensing was not having to buy an individual "boxed" copy of the software, but rather a only very much reducedlicensing fee.. the IT bean counetrs will have to make the decsion on Windopws 10 as a service, but if the proposed MS model holds true, there could be savings due to not having to pay for a newer OS down the road, depending on how MS goes down the WIn 10 as "the last ever" road.. Time will tell.   And a service product is not necessarily DRM, particulary with an OS.. Back in the day,we only had one master Volume Licensing Product Key, as an example for Win2K, but we had to maintain an accurate CAL count and match that to seat count or if audited, face serious penalties..

    Ivy said:

    At $7 a machine or PC a month for a OS app  and if your company is licensed for a say 100  PC's ( to make it easy math) that $700 a month for a OS service you only had to pay the one time purchase OS fee of around $700 gor a 100 PC's  ... grief what a racket..lol I can see why companies go DRM.

     

    The thing is with subscription services once you stop paying the fee your services stop.  which unlike a standalone software. once you bought it you could use it for your life time or until technology ran out which ever came first.

     what a racket..lol

    ...I'm still using Office 2K on my old XP 32 machine. Don't really need a lot of bells & whistles as a writer and really loathe what they've done with that ridiculous Ribbon UI.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,861

    I encrypt my hard drives. If the compuer gets nicked, the thief is getting nothing off it. I still 100% oppose DRM as benefiting nobody: customers are inconvenienced, vendors lose sales, pirates get around it anyway.

    ...and for now it prioritises content for one programme only.

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