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Them Bones updated: the new bundle only?

UnseenUnseen Posts: 757
edited June 2016 in The Commons

I see this new product in the store: http://www.daz3d.com/them-bones-legacy-bundle-with-iray-updates

I have looked at the separate items description pages but they do not seem to have been updated. Can we expect an update for these separate packs or should we repurchase the bundle if we want the update?

Post edited by Unseen on
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Comments

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085
    I'm curious, too... I bought them bones not long ago!
  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555

    would think you'd get a free auto update via dim or connect does say there's a new texture set too but still I would think there'd be a free update as the previous versions are still up kind of pointless keeping those if the new ones are exactly the same just updated cause lose sales on the older ones 

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555

    oh myself didn't have these but often thought about getting them just bought the new bundle with ivan's sale

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191

    Yeah, I'm curious about any major differences between this and the older products because they are keeping them separate.  I have all of the older versions so I'd love to know if the older ones will get updated or if I will need to buy the new bundle.

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727

    I have a couple of the packs...

    Im not going to re-purchase them all so that I can get iray materials. Ive got plenty of shaders to do the job just fine. I would appreciate an update to the older packs. I would also consider purchasing reasonably priced add ons to the older products.

  • UnseenUnseen Posts: 757
    AnotherUserName said:

    I have a couple of the packs...

    Im not going to re-purchase them all so that I can get iray materials. Ive got plenty of shaders to do the job just fine. I would appreciate an update to the older packs. I would also consider purchasing reasonably priced add ons to the older products.

    Me too...

     

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,843
    AnotherUserName said:

    I have a couple of the packs...

    Im not going to re-purchase them all so that I can get iray materials. Ive got plenty of shaders to do the job just fine. I would appreciate an update to the older packs. I would also consider purchasing reasonably priced add ons to the older products.

    same here, as long as I have textures for a product, I can get it to work in any renderer.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,251

    Since I don't own the older packages, I was wondering if they are really all included? I know the description says they are but then I only see 'Them Bones' listed in the what's included section.

    Also are the materials in the new package useable in 3DL?

    Thanks,

    Charlie

  • OrestesGraphicsOrestesGraphics Posts: 719

    Heya everyone, I'll try to clear some things up.

    First, Everything in the older products ( Them Bones, More of  Them Bones, Them Bones 3, Them Bloody Bones) is in the new release. 

    Second, no, there will be no updates for the older sets in this 'bundle' All the updates are only in this new set.  If it were up to me, the old ones would be removed from the store and replaced with this single product.  If you don't own the original products, then this one is the one to purchase. Doing it this way makes things much simpler. Due to the way the original Bones products  were released caused requirement confusion. Them Bones was stand alone, but Them Bones 2 required mats form the first, Them Bones 3 had a new mat set, that could work with the other two, and Them Bloody Bones required any one of the first 3. I can't tell you how often I'd see them in renders with no textures on them. So this way, all content, all meshes, all mat and textures, all in one product.

    As for changes, the set has just about been redone from the ground up. files have been recreated to current standards (DUF, MC6) the figures in the sets weight mapped, A new texture set that wasn't in the old sets.  The old sets had everything in a Poser Runtime setup, and either had old -school scripted auto loading DS mats, or Mats that you'd have to re-apply manually. This set has separate DS and Poser installers. Then there is the Iray mats for DS. Function just find in 3DL, for that matter, a couple of them are 3DL instead of iray, I found that they rendered faster and looked better in my testing.

    I think I've covered everything! If I missed something let me know, feel free to ask me!

     

    Thanks!

    -David

  • CrimsonMagicCrimsonMagic Posts: 129

    Well ... guess this means there will be no free update and even no paid upgrade for buyers of the original Them Bones items.
    Just checked my old Order Confirmation mails and found out that I paid $34,- for all four items.
    I would have liked to get the up-to-date Them Bones but sorry ... not for $21,- again.

    Thanks for understanding a customer's point of view,
    Martin
     

  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684

    A punch in the face of loyal customers that even owners of all 4 products in that bundle have to buy the bundle at full price again if they want the updates for the new textures or iray shaders. Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    Never mind.. just my 2ct.

    Good luck with the release.

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,638

    I have all four products and I like them! Nice work David. First the Carrot then the stick, I always say: Many Venders are not upgrading their products for Iray (some don't know how and some don't have the hardware). If you don't want to learn how to use Iray shaders, I would just go to Renderosity and buy the Gore Iray Shaders (only $3.50 for Prime members) there and add them to your Them bones, or just use the basic universal Iray base shader and make adjustments for free. I never trust the Venders to get things right anyway, there is always something I need that they don't do (consequently I rarely buy the extra textures or material files it just seems wastefull, but I will buy shaders) so I just fix textures and shaders myself. I do agree releasing an old product as new is not cool. I don't want the vender to give things away, but that is not fair, at the very least give your older customers a tutorial on how to fix your old products to work with Iray (just for those that don't know how).

  • OrestesGraphicsOrestesGraphics Posts: 719
    Silver Dolphin said:

     Many Venders are not upgrading their products for Iray (some don't know how and some don't have the hardware).

     

    This^

     

    Sorry some of you are disappointed, or feel 'punched in the face' frown As I described this was more  than a small update, and as mentioned most vendors don't even bother.   If you can't see the value of purchasing this set now, then wish list it. I'm confident that Daz in their usual fashion will have it on some door-buster fire-sale soon anyway.

     

    Thanks!

    -David

  • Blade68Blade68 Posts: 11

    Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    As owner of three of the four products, I agree completely with this comment.  I would never expect a free update as it is a lot of work, but a voucher, as AprilYSH has done for some of her hair updates would have been nice customer service.  Had this happened it would have been put right in the cart, now it will sit there on the never never, waiting for some doorbuster sale.

  • XtraDimensionalXtraDimensional Posts: 509

    I owned some of them before, but I purchased this new bundle regardless because I value the time and effort that went into re-rigging, weightmapping, and working out shaders, etc.

    David, I just want you to know that I, at least, think that updating the product in this new bundle is customer service, and I am certain that you priced it accordingly to be fair to both new buyers as well as owners of the previous products. 

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,251
    bad4u said:

     Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    Even though he didn't have to, Slosh also did this with UHT2 when it came out recently and for the first 48 hours offered a small discount to UHT owners.  And UHT2 was a complete rebuild and a lot of work also. I thought it was  a nice gesture.

     

    Just to note: I don't own any of the 'Them Bones" products and wouldn't personally have benefited from such a discount. Just suggesting it might have been a good marketing strategy.

  • UnseenUnseen Posts: 757
    edited June 2016
    OrestesGraphics said:

    Heya everyone, I'll try to clear some things up.

    First, Everything in the older products ( Them Bones, More of  Them Bones, Them Bones 3, Them Bloody Bones) is in the new release. 

    Second, no, there will be no updates for the older sets in this 'bundle' All the updates are only in this new set.  If it were up to me, the old ones would be removed from the store and replaced with this single product.  If you don't own the original products, then this one is the one to purchase. Doing it this way makes things much simpler. Due to the way the original Bones products  were released caused requirement confusion. Them Bones was stand alone, but Them Bones 2 required mats form the first, Them Bones 3 had a new mat set, that could work with the other two, and Them Bloody Bones required any one of the first 3. I can't tell you how often I'd see them in renders with no textures on them. So this way, all content, all meshes, all mat and textures, all in one product.

    As for changes, the set has just about been redone from the ground up. files have been recreated to current standards (DUF, MC6) the figures in the sets weight mapped, A new texture set that wasn't in the old sets.  The old sets had everything in a Poser Runtime setup, and either had old -school scripted auto loading DS mats, or Mats that you'd have to re-apply manually. This set has separate DS and Poser installers. Then there is the Iray mats for DS. Function just find in 3DL, for that matter, a couple of them are 3DL instead of iray, I found that they rendered faster and looked better in my testing.

    I think I've covered everything! If I missed something let me know, feel free to ask me!

     

    Thanks!

    -David

    Thank you for the clear reply, David/Orestes Graphics. I am a long time supporter of your products but from now on I think that I should better say that I was.

    I anyway rarely buy the same things twice (unless there is an update even if it is not free...) and there will probably be no exception for this pack unless it would be offered for free or for extremely cheap in the future. I feel that a clear answer from me was also necessary since I opened this thread.

    Your decision at least made another vendor happy because I bought this pack instead of yours: http://www.daz3d.com/medieval-hall-and-garden

    Post edited by Unseen on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    Blade68 said:

    Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    As owner of three of the four products, I agree completely with this comment.  I would never expect a free update as it is a lot of work, but a voucher, as AprilYSH has done for some of her hair updates would have been nice customer service.  Had this happened it would have been put right in the cart, now it will sit there on the never never, waiting for some doorbuster sale.

    Considering there are about 4 products combined into one and redone, those profit margins are really thin. Then add that to not knowing what percentage your product will be released under with any offers and the potential of stacking offers, those coupons often have been BRUTAL to intro sales... especially if you don't release often. I know I pulled a product less than a year old because people found a way to turn the $19 price into $2... 3 separate times.

  • Pack58Pack58 Posts: 750
    Male-M3dia said:

    . I know I pulled a product less than a year old because people found a way to turn the $19 price into $2... 3 separate times.

    LOL 'coz it's so much better not selling any then risking a percentage of your sales being at $2.00

    I could understand you not being keen on putting out more products if that's what your up against but pulling an existing one???

    Oh well.... it's your nose and your face so whatever.

  • thenotoriousjedthenotoriousjed Posts: 397

    I think I might go see the new Ghostbusters movie. I wonder if they will discount it if I tell them I watched and own the original?

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,533
    Blade68 said:

    Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    As owner of three of the four products, I agree completely with this comment.  I would never expect a free update as it is a lot of work, but a voucher, as AprilYSH has done for some of her hair updates would have been nice customer service.  Had this happened it would have been put right in the cart, now it will sit there on the never never, waiting for some doorbuster sale.

    Sorry but I too have to agree with this, it also makes me wary of buying any of the venders older products there were a couple I have been waiting to get, now I'll just wait in case there's an upgraded version released.

    I'm sure the product will do fine the version I have is wonderful and something I use regularly and will continue to use, I do believe that Mec4D is planning on releasing some Iray bone shaders at some point I have a few that she released as freebies they are really good on Them bones' etc

     

  • OrestesGraphicsOrestesGraphics Posts: 719
    Male-M3dia said:
    Blade68 said:

    Sure not expecting any free upgrades, but a coupon for some discount or something similar would have been a nice move, help keeping complains and disappointment at a minimum, and finally wouldn't need a separate upgrade product in the store.

    As owner of three of the four products, I agree completely with this comment.  I would never expect a free update as it is a lot of work, but a voucher, as AprilYSH has done for some of her hair updates would have been nice customer service.  Had this happened it would have been put right in the cart, now it will sit there on the never never, waiting for some doorbuster sale.

    Considering there are about 4 products combined into one and redone, those profit margins are really thin. Then add that to not knowing what percentage your product will be released under with any offers and the potential of stacking offers, those coupons often have been BRUTAL to intro sales... especially if you don't release often. I know I pulled a product less than a year old because people found a way to turn the $19 price into $2... 3 separate times.

    Gah, you know it!!  Or turn a $70 bundle into a $5 profit!  *Beats head off desk*

    thenotoriousjed said:

    I think I might go see the new Ghostbusters movie. I wonder if they will discount it if I tell them I watched and own the original?

    LOL! Well, you should! Only makes sense, right? :P

     

  • UnseenUnseen Posts: 757
    edited June 2016

    Very instructive merchant reply...

     

    Post edited by Unseen on
  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,638
    OrestesGraphics said:
    Silver Dolphin said:

     Many Venders are not upgrading their products for Iray (some don't know how and some don't have the hardware).

     

    This^

     

    Sorry some of you are disappointed, or feel 'punched in the face' frown As I described this was more  than a small update, and as mentioned most vendors don't even bother.   If you can't see the value of purchasing this set now, then wish list it. I'm confident that Daz in their usual fashion will have it on some door-buster fire-sale soon anyway.

     

    Thanks!

    -David

    I like your product Them bones and it is very usefull for horror scenes; I also use them bones when I do dungeon scenes. I hope you are not discouraged by our belly aching> I think I was fishing for a discount because: I don't spend like I used to and I was under the impression that this was just a Iray fix. This hobby is too expensive for me personally. I have started to look at my collection of 3d models and am no longer impulse buying> If I can't use something or fix it to be usefull I will put off buying it. I have too many characters models and less props and scenes than are usefull and practical. Your products are usefull because they are not tied to a particular charater model. Because your product is a prop it can be usefull for years to come. I will be purchasing your newer products so don't stop making them.

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    OrestesGraphics said:

    Heya everyone, I'll try to clear some things up.

    First, Everything in the older products ( Them Bones, More of  Them Bones, Them Bones 3, Them Bloody Bones) is in the new release. 

    Second, no, there will be no updates for the older sets in this 'bundle' All the updates are only in this new set.  If it were up to me, the old ones would be removed from the store and replaced with this single product.  If you don't own the original products, then this one is the one to purchase. Doing it this way makes things much simpler. Due to the way the original Bones products  were released caused requirement confusion. Them Bones was stand alone, but Them Bones 2 required mats form the first, Them Bones 3 had a new mat set, that could work with the other two, and Them Bloody Bones required any one of the first 3. I can't tell you how often I'd see them in renders with no textures on them. So this way, all content, all meshes, all mat and textures, all in one product.

    As for changes, the set has just about been redone from the ground up. files have been recreated to current standards (DUF, MC6) the figures in the sets weight mapped, A new texture set that wasn't in the old sets.  The old sets had everything in a Poser Runtime setup, and either had old -school scripted auto loading DS mats, or Mats that you'd have to re-apply manually. This set has separate DS and Poser installers. Then there is the Iray mats for DS. Function just find in 3DL, for that matter, a couple of them are 3DL instead of iray, I found that they rendered faster and looked better in my testing.

    I think I've covered everything! If I missed something let me know, feel free to ask me!

     

    Thanks!

    -David

    Thanks for the info! :)  I'm actually glad to see these updated as I had problems, at times, using the old bones as I used them so rarely I could barely remember how I was supposed to get the mats loaded.  Since I don't use Poser it is a pain at times to remember how to load those older mats in DS which is why I usually try to remember to save them in .duf format for future use when I have older sets loaded.  Yeah, well, I don't always remember to do that, either.  

    I don't use bones often since I'm more of a romance, non horror type of girl, but I have found uses for them occasionally so I'll be sure to get the new bundle soon.  I'm especially glad they were updated for Iray.  Making them easier for me to use will also be a plus.  I'm actually a little surprised at the way the thread sort of deteriorated.  Would a discount be nice?  Sure, but considering how much work goes into completely revamping a product to bring it up to current standards, I can't complain much if there isn't one.  I'll either buy it or I won't, but complaining about it certainly doesn't get anyone anywhere quick.  

    Considering I don't do those types of renders that usually need the type of gruesome props you're so good at, I seem to have a lot of your stuff.  I'm sure I'll be very happy with the new bundle, too, when I get it.  For now it's in the wishlist as I've spent way too much lately, but it's nice to know the difference between the bundle and the older products and it's a definite buy for me in the future when finances allow again.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,759

    I don't know it sound to me like its been re built from the ground up and isn't really an update but more of a new and improved product. Almost along the lines of certain products that are made for one generation then get made for the next generation and the next generation.  And people buy them for each generation.  Sometimes there is a discount sometimes there isn't. I'm not sure what the difference is here.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,759

    And I have to say that yes, its  nice when a vendor offers a discount for whatever reason.  But why does that give everyone the right to EXPECT a discount?  We have no idea what each vendors profit margin is for all we know one vendor may have a slightly higher profit margin than the other or one of them really wanted to give his or her customers the absolute best deal he could because he knows many people may have bought previous products and because he priced things so close to the bone he can't give an additional discount and make any money at all. Or one vendor may have a wife with a really good job and felt he could take a loss by giving previous customers a discount and the other can't feed his kids if he does that. (I have NO idea what anyone's personal circumstances are, I'm just saying, we don't know what they are).

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451

    I don't own any of the other sets, always looked at them and considered them so I really think I might get this set, I want the cobwebs too they have been in my wishlist for some time, so maybe an iray version will be remade of that too ;).  My renders are very mixed for what I do, I know I don't use half of what I have either and spend too much lol, it's my hobby, but so addicting ;) it looks great was glad to see it in email great job.

  • CrimsonMagicCrimsonMagic Posts: 129

    Maybe a bit off-topic here but I have to get it off my chest at last.
    For me, the image (perception) of a company/vendor or whatever is an essential part of the purchase decision.
    Most important for sure is the question if I like a specific product and want to buy it.
    But next questions are:
    - Do I like the company/vendor ?
    - Do I have the impression that I'm a valued customer ?
    - Does the company/vendor care about their customers (or just want to make max. profit) ?
    If one of the above questions is negative I'll reconsider the purchase and/or check alternatives.

    Some examples:
    - Sony products
    I was a big Sony fan 30 years ago but then quality of their products decreased and they distributed root kits and such stuff ...
    -> No more buys from Sony since more than 20 Years or so.

    - DAZ3D:
    Yeah, they made me (a bit) angry a few times but over all I think it's a cool company with some cool people there :-)
    -> Will continue to buy here.

    - Jepe's ...Z products
    Wow, free Iray upgrade. I love it and his generosity.
    -> Sure will buy more of his stuff even if I don't need it.

    - Some other vendors here at DAZ3D.
    I observed that some vendors try to sell the same product for different genesis generations for the full price and think it's not ok.
    -> I will not support this behaviour.

    - Orestes Graphics - Them Bones (back on-topic)
    Bought 66 of 88 products currently in his store and I'm not happy with the fact that Them Bones buyers shall pay the full price for the upgraded version.
    From my (customers) point of view it's in the best case just an upgrade and not a newly developed product.
    -> Well, sure will continue to buy his products but only if they are "must have" in my opinion.

    To make things short - an appeal to vendors:
    Take care about the image (perception) you create of yourself in the heads of your customers ... it may influence your sales ;-)

  • jakibluejakiblue Posts: 7,281

    From what I've read, it's not just an iray upgrade to the bones stuff...it's almost a complete rebuild. OG was right when he said there was a bit of confusion with the original products - i have 3 and the requirements used to drive me nuts....the bones for one set were in the poser folders then have to go to the DS folders for the shaders, then I think another set was all in the DS folders...gah. So it's good to see they have been consolidated and have DS native files. I used them A LOT in 3delight. 

    I have no problem paying for a product that I already have, if the 'upgrade' is extensive, which these seem to be. However, I really really really would have preferred to see them released separately (with the bundle as an option). The bundle is out of my price range (on sale: $US20.97 = $AU27.95) so I'm unable to get it. If the products had been released separately, I most certainly would have purchased at least one now, with the others being purchased over time. 

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