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Question about Daz connect and loss of sale

Nester751Nester751 Posts: 387
edited June 2016 in The Commons

Do the vendors have an option on whether or not their products are Encrypted Daz Connect only? As a casual D/S user I've avoided upgrading and totally dislike DRM (especially that constantly checks constantly or at all for an online connection). I've had bad experiences with items I legally purchased with DRM bricking hardware. While this isn't as common as it used to be, I don't have any faith in DRM due to the added cost of that one incident. My question is because there's an item from one of the vendors I like a lot and usually buy from who has the Encrypted Daz Connect listed as the only method of download. I question this as it also says it has DSON which makes me wonder if there's a typo. The item in question is this one.

http://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-eliya-hd-for-victoria-7

Does this have a normal download? Also I'm still using D/S 4.8 by choice (no Daz Connect). I'd appreciate any assistance as the item is currently on sale. If it's Encrypted Daz Connect only I'll be passing on the purchase.

 

Post edited by Nester751 on

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    It is currently Encrypted only.

     

  • Nester751Nester751 Posts: 387

    Thank you for your quick response.... still sad.. a very nice looking character. :(

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,603
    edited June 2016

    Daz have said that any items that are released with encryption, will be sold de-crypted (as a normal download) after a year. I assume that still stands.  

    I know it's not very helpful as you want to buy her now.

    There's an item that I want, but I'm not prepare to buy it whilst it's encrypted. 

    Post edited by N-RArts on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,581

    So far (I believe) only Daz Originals have been encrypted, no products with just the PA listed have been encrypted. It was thus not the individual PA that requested that these be encrypted, but DAZ's decision alone.

  • Nester751Nester751 Posts: 387

    Thank you everyone for your answers. Not crazy about the idea of waiting a year for items to release without encryption either. Seems like a bad idea in general.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited June 2016

    Well, it was a compromise between "not encrypted at all" and "encrypted forever". As such, if DAZ stands by their word, I do think it's a good compromise between their stance and ours.

    Also, in my experience, there's rarely an items that is needed "right now". If every new item in the shop would go to the "all encrypt today, unencrypted in one year" today, I'd just wishlist most of the items (like I did with the majority of the encrypted stuff so far), and see what still interests me once the one year is up. That saves a lot of money.

    On the downside of it, if you really do need that particular item, you either bite the bullet, or frustrate yourself because you don't want to buy (like I do, when I see all the new G3 poses, and no shenning G3 to G2 pose converter in sight).

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    Both characters look great; a good price had them in my cart, even though my buying habbits changed (around the time of 4.9 beta release), but I was tempted. I wishlisted 'em, although after a year, I am unlikely to buy.

    None of the stuff I actually need now, or really at all. I've got what I need for the two projects I have to complete. As I've likely said before, I can shop elsewhere for unencrypted content if it ever becomes necessary. And I've been making my own.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/89246/get-your-encrypted-content-here-thread

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    The nice thing about the 'encrypt for a year' is that most of the risk and loss is on Daz, rather than us.

    I was one of the first people to propose the compromise. Since Daz is utterly convinced that DRM will protect content, and given the truism that most sales are in the initial weeks/months of a product's lifetime, it stands to reason that if you are trying to mitigate loss of sales, the piracy cost after that period is effectively low. It also bakes in a system/approach to releasing content if Daz ever shuts down.

    Yeah, we know DRM doesn't actually do much, but this seems a 'least bad' compromise. Though I think the time frame is a bit high.

  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 363
    timmins.william said:

    The nice thing about the 'encrypt for a year' is that most of the risk and loss is on Daz, rather than us.

    I was one of the first people to propose the compromise. Since Daz is utterly convinced that DRM will protect content, and given the truism that most sales are in the initial weeks/months of a product's lifetime, it stands to reason that if you are trying to mitigate loss of sales, the piracy cost after that period is effectively low. It also bakes in a system/approach to releasing content if Daz ever shuts down.

    Yeah, we know DRM doesn't actually do much, but this seems a 'least bad' compromise. Though I think the time frame is a bit high.

    A compromise is better than nothing, but I still think it ends up costing sales.  If you see something new and shiny, you want it now.  Who wants something shiny and then waits a year to buy it?  No one.  If you are against DRM use as I am (and as others here), in a year I will realize I've done perfectly fine without the item and didn't really need to buy it in the first place.  When I see Ecrypted Only on the item description, I don't wish list it--I just pass on it.  Without the encryption I would have bought it (so DAZ definitely is losing the impulse buyers).

  • mambanegramambanegra Posts: 594
    Fragg1960 said:
    timmins.william said:

    The nice thing about the 'encrypt for a year' is that most of the risk and loss is on Daz, rather than us.

    I was one of the first people to propose the compromise. Since Daz is utterly convinced that DRM will protect content, and given the truism that most sales are in the initial weeks/months of a product's lifetime, it stands to reason that if you are trying to mitigate loss of sales, the piracy cost after that period is effectively low. It also bakes in a system/approach to releasing content if Daz ever shuts down.

    Yeah, we know DRM doesn't actually do much, but this seems a 'least bad' compromise. Though I think the time frame is a bit high.

    A compromise is better than nothing, but I still think it ends up costing sales.  If you see something new and shiny, you want it now.  Who wants something shiny and then waits a year to buy it?  No one.  If you are against DRM use as I am (and as others here), in a year I will realize I've done perfectly fine without the item and didn't really need to buy it in the first place.  When I see Ecrypted Only on the item description, I don't wish list it--I just pass on it.  Without the encryption I would have bought it (so DAZ definitely is losing the impulse buyers).

    Oh, it definitely will cost sales, and I am certain that DAZ are well aware of that fact. The question is, whether or not the number of sales lost via folks refusing to purchase Connect only encrypted content is larger than what they believe they are losing to pirated content. Considering most businesses incorrectly think an illegal download is equal to exactly 1 lost purchase, I seriously doubt they are too worried about the number of folks refusing to use purchase this stuff due to the encrypted issue. And, honestly, I bet most folks will come around anyway once it is standard practice. 

    My guess is that the only way they will abandon the plan is if they do a few big, connect only releases and see sales signficantly lower than expected. They are being very careful, though. Easing us in, probably hoping that more and more of the holdouts will be enticed to try it out so as to ensure that doesn't happen. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    Many won't bother I suspect; new folks will be using Connect, and the fact its encrypted will not be an issue, so will jump through the required loops.

  • Sensual ArtSensual Art Posts: 645
    mambanegra said:
    Fragg1960 said:
    timmins.william said:

    The nice thing about the 'encrypt for a year' is that most of the risk and loss is on Daz, rather than us.

    I was one of the first people to propose the compromise. Since Daz is utterly convinced that DRM will protect content, and given the truism that most sales are in the initial weeks/months of a product's lifetime, it stands to reason that if you are trying to mitigate loss of sales, the piracy cost after that period is effectively low. It also bakes in a system/approach to releasing content if Daz ever shuts down.

    Yeah, we know DRM doesn't actually do much, but this seems a 'least bad' compromise. Though I think the time frame is a bit high.

    A compromise is better than nothing, but I still think it ends up costing sales.  If you see something new and shiny, you want it now.  Who wants something shiny and then waits a year to buy it?  No one.  If you are against DRM use as I am (and as others here), in a year I will realize I've done perfectly fine without the item and didn't really need to buy it in the first place.  When I see Ecrypted Only on the item description, I don't wish list it--I just pass on it.  Without the encryption I would have bought it (so DAZ definitely is losing the impulse buyers).

    Oh, it definitely will cost sales, and I am certain that DAZ are well aware of that fact. The question is, whether or not the number of sales lost via folks refusing to purchase Connect only encrypted content is larger than what they believe they are losing to pirated content. Considering most businesses incorrectly think an illegal download is equal to exactly 1 lost purchase, I seriously doubt they are too worried about the number of folks refusing to use purchase this stuff due to the encrypted issue. And, honestly, I bet most folks will come around anyway once it is standard practice. 

    My guess is that the only way they will abandon the plan is if they do a few big, connect only releases and see sales signficantly lower than expected. They are being very careful, though. Easing us in, probably hoping that more and more of the holdouts will be enticed to try it out so as to ensure that doesn't happen. 

    Or till it gathers enough popularity to attract the attention of stubborn hackers who would dig through the routines to extract the encryption keys and maintain their release momentum as usual. If the success of DRM in video games are any indicator I am sure it would be just a matter of time and patience. The bigger the release the more attention it would attract.

    If people have collected 1000s of items without paying a dime so far, I doubt they would be turning to shop paying 100$ for mere 10 items. Daz is only testing their patience.

  • mambanegramambanegra Posts: 594
    mrinal said:
    mambanegra said:
    Fragg1960 said:
    timmins.william said:
    Or till it gathers enough popularity to attract the attention of stubborn hackers who would dig through the routines to extract the encryption keys and maintain their release momentum as usual. If the success of DRM in video games are any indicator I am sure it would be just a matter of time and patience. The bigger the release the more attention it would attract.

    If people have collected 1000s of items without paying a dime so far, I doubt they would be turning to shop paying 100$ for mere 10 items. Daz is only testing their patience.

    I tend to agree, but obviously DAZ thinks otherwise, as well as the majority of the business world. 

  • mark128mark128 Posts: 1,029
    edited June 2016
    Havos said:

    So far (I believe) only Daz Originals have been encrypted, no products with just the PA listed have been encrypted. It was thus not the individual PA that requested that these be encrypted, but DAZ's decision alone.

    Both of the characters that were released encrypted are Daz Originals and they also have the PA name on them. My understanding is this means that DAZ bought the rights to this product from the PA. DAZ paided the PA a sum of money up front and DAZ now owns the product. DAZ gets all the revenue from the product. It doesn't matter to the PA if no one ever buys the product becuase it is encrypted.  The PA has already gotten their money for the product and it will be DAZ's loss if no one buys it. 

    It is possible DAZ sometimes makes different business arrangements with some PAs, but I doubt it in this case.

    Post edited by mark128 on
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,481

    DazO's are often purchased from PAs and Daz has begun posting the name of the PA(s) involved.  If it has Daz O(riginal) on it, it's a buyout, basically.

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555

    so the pas still get credit for creating the product and fans of the buyers know their work and or may checkout the creators other products, yeah I much prefer dim but I have picked up few things that were connect including just now these two ladies thought they looked nice and nice price 

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    Lets be clear, CONNECT IS NOT ENCRYPTED.  Encrypted content can only be installed through Connect but Connect does not do the the encrypting.

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