Has anyone ever started a group movie/graphic novel project?
posecast
Posts: 386
I'm just wondering because the potential for amazing artwork has never been more available, but there seems to be a shortage of long-form stories to back it up. Single renders? There are thousands. Hundreds of thousands. But animated features or graphic novels? There isn't much to choose from. I would love to find some collaborators to work on some story projects. Has anyone ever been involved with anything like this? Maybe I just don't know where to look to find poser/daz animations that are full stories.
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Take a look at this thread for a full-length movie: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29277/lost-planet-2-2016/p1
I'm currently working with 2 other talented artists on a larger, long-term project. One of them is an author, who has already penned a fantastic story to work with. At this early stage, I'm not really in position to mention anything more specific, but I can say that we're using my NPR (Non-Photorealistic Rendering) algorithms:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/68493/algovincian-non-photorealistic-rendering-npr/p1
I would definitely be interested in opening up a dialog with other artists interested in collaborating on professional/commercial projects.
- Greg
Great to see these projects!
If you’re serious, I should point out that most comic books are the work of a group of people. I know of only a handful of individuals that ever created a successful comic by themselves. If you wanted to create a graphic story using Poser/DS, you’d need to be good at writing, creating characters, camera work, lighting, posing, modeling, texturing, creating backgrounds, post work, lettering, etc. There are people out there that are very good at few of these things, but no one is an expert at all things needed to create a good graphic story. It would take a group of people who could work together working in their own specialty to create a single story. Also if you’ve been around this hobby for any amount of time, you have a lot of content. With a group of people the story would have access to a much larger pool of props. I know a lot people are going you can’t exchange object files, yes but you can exchange a render of props that can be composite into a final rendered scene. You also can exchange (as long as its your own work) lighting files, pose files, and camera files. I’ve thinking a long time about how this would all work. I’m looking for someone to try this out to see if this would work.
What kind of story are you interested in? I lean towards a sci fi fantasy mix like thundarr the barbarian.
I've produced seven full length graphic novels using Poser/DAZ assets (total almost 2,000 published pages), and they were picked up by an international publisher.
Three of them have been shortlisted in national awards.
They're all currently available in both paperback and digital formats at Amazon, Book Depository, and all good online retailers. Some bricks and mortar stores have them too, but they're definitely harder to find in person. I also sell a discounted digital bundle of these books from my website, shanewsmith.com.
Sci-fi series:
Other titles:
Happy to answer any questions about these books. Have attached some art samples.
Edit. Always forget to add this bit: DAZ interviewed me about my work in graphic novels back in 2011.
That's impressive Shane! Magnificent accomplishment. How has Amazon treated you in this regard? I would have thought bandwidth for those image filled books would kill the profit margin!
Thanks! They're not actually published through Amazon - my books are 'traditionally' published and printed by small press publishers. Amazon is just a retailer of my books.
As far as I can tell, printing a black and white comic costs the same as printing a black and white novel (just a few bucks). Most printers don't tend to differentiate at the quoting stage.
Colour books are another matter, but the price has come down in recent years, and seem to be relatively cheap too (I can get Undad, a 220-page colour book, sent to me for about the same price as one of the 350 page black and white books).
(I can't speak for Amazon, though, I'm afraid - I've never worked with CreateSpace.)
Oh I see. It would be interesting to see how that sold on the kindle!
Like most indie books, sales are slow, but a few people have taken a shot with the Kindle edition of the books (also available on Amazon). Comics on Kindle (especially older monochrome models) are a bit of a hit-and-miss thing, though, and can be quite hard to read with the wrong device.
Personally, what I'm most interested in is finding talented artists who specialize in various specific aspects of content creation. DAZ assets are a great starting point, but I'm not sure that plug & play poses/morphs/environments and dial spinning will produce the kind of compelling and dynamic results I'm looking for. I should be clear and say that what I mean is that I have been unable to produce such results using just DAZ assets and methods - I've always needed to go into a modeler, etc. I find this to be especially true when it comes to facial expressions, which is why a digital sculpter focusing on such things would be an example of one such artist I would be extremely interested in working with. Others would include environmental modelers (both natural and man-made), texture artists, etc.
- Greg
I am working on a visual novel based on Daz + Blender. I am using characters from Daz and all else made from Blender.
It's work in progress. The site is in my signature.
I'm liking the artwork for Triumviratus you posted. A 23 issue story arc sounds intriguing. When is it scheduled to start publication?
My primary interest in using daz studio is for animation, I have over 65 animated stories (Ivy's Animated films ) using daz studio and poser.. It has always been my belief that if a group of people could get to together that all owned the same assets, & knew how to use daz in animation with out me having to teach them first. could build or create a very decent Pixar quality animation . my biggest issue I have found try to put a team to together is that most Daz users don't all own the same assets that would be needed to share in projects and the DAZ TOS does not allow of sharing of those assets , nor does the game developers license covers of sharing of assets for film projects. . so that rather limits what teams of film makers can put together for large animation projects as a team. that has been the biggest hurdle to overcome for teams or groups to collaborate on animated projects, that and not all users have the equipment powerful enough to render large films too.; )
All my films like these I have done myself
Below are a couple of test renders from my new street animation Ive been working on for the 8 weeks and i have so far 102 scenes rendered out of 209 scenes i have planned using my story boards as my guide. yes I would love to work with a team of people. the chances of that happening because everyone owns the same assets are slime to none .
Thanks for the kind words!
Re publication date: No idea, to be honest. I'm thinking I might skip issues and go straight to trades. I like bigger books anyway.
So far, I've got enough complete for one TPB (though it badly needs relettering!), but I'd like to have the whole story done before I start looking for a publisher. Might be years yet, as this project seems to slot in around whatever else I've got going on at the time.
Edit: BTW, I've used a tonne of your scenery in my comics so far. Love it all, and own just about all of it. Thanks for all the work you put into them!
Yes, *I* wasn't able to get the results *I* was looking for by simply dial spinning, and without sculpting. I wasn't trying to insult, or judge in any way, anybody else's work. If you can produce the results you're looking for without leaving DAZ and doing any sculpting . . . great! Here's an example of a custom character and expression that I was unable to create by dial spinning alone:
What I did in this case, was dial up a pose/expression for the character (with my custom sculpted morph already applied) and export it as an .obj and for further sculpting (to become the finished morph for this expression - specific to this character). I also was unable to find hair to purchase that matched the long but balding & thin hair that the author wanted, so I created that, too.
Also, I never said I expected anybody to do anything just for me. What I did say, was that I was interested in opening up a dialog with other artists interested in collaborating on professional/commercial projects, in particular those artists who may focus on facial expressions. You yourself mentioned time and having to wait in your response. This is exactly why I am interested in working with others - because there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do everything myself. I'm more interested in developing my NPR algorithms than I am in creating 3D content, anyway.
- Greg
Not the first time I've watched it, Ivy, but I still chuckled when he ripped off his top trying to be all bad-assed and she just laughs at him ;)
- Greg
I love that scene, too! Give me a chuckle every time I see it.
If only daz had the foresight to include a slightly more filled out set of pregen content or made some bundles with a good value. Maybe researching high quality freebies and building sets from 3D warehouse would be a good workaround.
I hate to see a good idea just get passed by, so if you’re serious what would you like to do? You can look at my gallery at renderosity to see my style.
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/?uid=25411
I create characters I’ll good at posing, lighting, and camera work. I have the following software;
DAZ Studio
Hexagon
Bryce
Carrara
Paint Shop Pro
Photo Shop Elements
Manga Studio 5EX
And over 200 CDs full of content
I have over 17 years of experience in this. So if you’re really interested let know.
Oh, I meant to say earlier: if you're seriously looking to find people to collaborate with on a graphic novel project, recommend you look beyond the DAZ forums. Aren't too many comics folk here - some, but not many, and most of the people here all have the same skills.
Recommend getting involved in the DeviantArt Jobs forums, or comic specific sites like Penciljack, or one of the more active Facebook groups (Connecting Comic Book Writers and Artists, for example), or even Reddit. I've hired about three dozen people thus far (writers and artists), and they all came from one of these places.
Happy to provide a list of links if interested.
Good luck anyone looking to kick off a project.
One of the biggest problems with any "multi-person" project is bringing divergent styles and visions together. For artists this is somewhat like herding cats. It usually takes some measure of "control" (i.e. who's paying) to make a project coalesce. At some point in a project, the person "in charge" will have to get heavy handed on some aspect of art, framing, etc which will lead to hard feelings and from there usually dissolution of the team. Artists tend to be rather thin skinned about the work they've done, and the moment you have to tell them "this doesn't fit into the ... and will have to be (redone/scrapped/modified)" their feeling will be hurt and you would have been better served by slicing the artist open with a knife -- the results will be the same. Mortal wounds never heal, whether to the ego or body.
Kendall
I agree that a project run by democratic consensus, though, is going to hit major issues the moment a disagreement occurs. Any collaboration - creative or otherwise - typically requires clear demarcation of duties, a team with a professional approach, and a project leader prepared to mediate and resolve disputes before they crash the project. In most cases, the unification of the creative vision will be the responsibility of that project leader.
However, if you're collaborating with someone who is very thin-skinned and can't take constructive criticism, your project is probably better off without them, no matter their skillset. Developing a thicker skin is one of the most crucial skills an artist can cultivate - weathering rejection and criticism is a core part of the job description, especially when such criticism aims to improve the quality of their work. Constructive criticism should never be a mortal wound to an artist - it's a gift. (Of course, however, it needs to be delivered with appropriate levels of tact.)
I agree, but I think that it’s misunderstood; I don’t think that you can (or should) start out with some big project like a graphic novel. That would be doomed to failure. What I am truly hoping for is to find others with an interest in creating graphic story using DS/Poser.
I really don’t believe that one person can do a graphic story justice, because no one person has every skill necessary, but a group of people might have. I think it’s important start a discussion that discusses what could be done, how it could be done, what the pitfalls are, how to get around them. I can’t find the answers by myself, but through discussion maybe they be found. I know would be egos, thin skins, and lack of commitment, but talking can hurt. I bet there are more people out there with this interest, I hope some one would want start a discussion.
Love the Karate Girl series, really looking forward to the street animation, looks AWESOME!!
An impressive short movie done with Blender And Daz Studio by Jesús Orellana was done using DAZ models. I think he used it as a calling card director's project to get noticed in Hollywood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1iqiMqbbIE
You have to respect the auteur that creates something on their own. The one person team that just keeps their head down and produces what their mind eye sees. That diligence and hard work has to be lived to be understood. The problem with a team of hopefuls wishing to make something, is that they have not actually been in the trenches nor experienced the inevitable stress that is involved. They have no idea how challenging it is to see a project through to completion. What level of production value does the team expect to deliver? Can they deliver it? Anything less than industry standard doesn't really stand a chance in the market. Regardless what is being produced, the wide eyed hopefulness wears off quickly and the reality of the task in hand comes to the fore. If you're getting paid for it, that's one thing, but if you are doing this as a labour of love then what keeps you motivated. What's in it for you? There's no shortage of people dangling "credits" out there. Is that enough? Something for your demo reel or portfolio? Will that do? Points participation or partnership structure where each person of the team will get a piece of the profit pie at some time in the future? Who is setting up the deal and the business structure, who is deciding on the script, who is controlling the ownership of the final product. There are a lot of variables to consider. And unless you have done it before, you can't know what you need to know. And that's why doing it on your own is sometimes the best way to do these things. You put in the work, you learn from the experience, and you get the benefits, guaranteed. The producer gets the credit, the producer usually gets the deal if there is one to be had.