New Products are only for Daz Studio. Why?
novelist999
Posts: 90
in The Commons
Why is every new product that's coming out on Daz only for Daz Studio? Many of us 3D artists still use Poser. I, personally, will always use Poser. I spend a whole lot less here now than I used to.
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Unfortunately, Poser products don't sell very well here -- many vendors kept doing Poser versions and had to stop because the extra work was bankrupting them. I hope that the RDNA merger brings more Poser buyers back so that vendors will start supporting it more.
It's not always listed as Compatible Software:
somtimes you have to look for
to know it's also for Poser
Another part of it is that the current generation Genesis model is not completely compatible with Poser like previous ones were, due to channges to the weight mapping and rigging that are not supported in Poser.
There's also the fact that some of the PAs who joined the store in the recent years don't even own or use Poser.
Most of the non-Poser environments and G2F/G2M content can be imported into Poser using the DSON loader: http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader
It works well most of the time, though some items still will not import properly, and instancing obviously will not be carried across.
Obviously G3 is also out because of the weight-mapping etc, although there is also a Renderosity plugin that allows G3F and G3M figures to work in the most recent version of Poser (I think.)
That would be great, but I doubt that will happen.
I didn't know that. I'll have to take a look at some of the products I've been eyeing. I have bought some that I thought would work in Poser but they didn't.
True, but that doesn't explain props, environments, and other products.
I've been a member since 2005 and I only noticed this change recently. Most products--except for Genesis 3 characters--typically had a Poser version.
I've used the Dson importer for a few years. Yes, it has its flaws and frustrations. I admit that I rarely use any of the Genesis characters. V4 and K4 are still my favorites, but it would be great if some of the new props, buildings, and scenes could be used in Poser. Yes, they did create a plugin to get Genesis 3 characters into Poser 11. Unfortunately, I'm still using 9 and can't upgrade until I upgrade my computer.
I understand not using poser formats in new products for all the reasons mentioned here.
What I don't understand is why the items with no rigging like props, buildings with no moving doors, etc., don't get released with an optional obj format download for people who use Carrara or Poser or Bryce. It's often .duf only for that type item too.
There is no need for product support on an obj file, even if it comes with images for textures.
Just my thoughts. Probably not even worth the usual two cents, but there they are anyhow...
obj is not a native or exclusive format to any software! It is the generic compromise, and that is why I suggest it.
I simply do not want an intrusive program like Daz Studio installed on my system.
People should be willing to accept that not everyone wants to install many programs when there is no need to do so, especially any program that constantly wants an internet connection, even to install or activate. My best computers have never been, nor will ever be, online for any reason at all.
There may be many ways to light europe, but not all of them make sense.
Like why no obj files? I know full well that I can get them the way you say, but that ignores the question!
Having the option as a separate download can only help sales, requires no added effort in terms of product support, and just plain makes sense.
Is there a *good* reason I am missing, or is this purely a covert means to get more people to install DAZ Studio?
Unless you want to use one of the 11 encrypted products from this store, there is no reason for DS to be on the internet, it does not need to dial in to check a license (unlike the newer versions of Poser, that do this). You can simply load the product you need, and then export out as either a CR2, PP2 or OBJ. I can understand that you would rather all products already had an obj available, but life is never that simple.
as long as an .obj and a mc6 is offered you can use it in Daz Studio. You may have to do some setting up but those are formats Poser will recognize.
I have read complaints that DS required a connection to activate a new install. If that was wrong, then they are not all that evil.
But I'm not even asking for any files other than texture maps, and an obj file! No mc6, or any other proprietary software formats.
And I am not even really asking for them - I am asking why they are not offered!
A subtle distinction, but one whose magnitude cannot be overstated because once it is clear that there is absolutely no good reason, the only option left is to assume they want to artifically inflate the number of registered and installed users of studio for marketing purposes.
If I am wrong to be offended by that, then I am wrong.
But I have yet to hear even one good reason to not offer this, and work-arounds don't count as a reason. They are merely work-arounds which we are all aware exist.
I'm not anti-daz at all!
Just anti daz studio! Another subtle, but critical, distinction.
You get the texture maps. You may not always get the obj's. A vendor does not have to include it if its for DS only. I know a lot of PA's are including them just in case. I know I am. on Daz O's
Thanks for doing that!
The few times I have been tempted to buy a "static prop" or "environment" and saw the "what's included" list, it was all .duf format or other DS proprietary formats. No obj was ever listed.
Had I seen them, I would surely have purchased the items in question (I forget what they were since I don't obsess on what I can't have - but sometimes I do obsess on why I can't have it should I find the reasons to defy logic!).
You have to check the file list here: http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/start
For example: http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/31525/start
You'll find the location of the textures:
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_adverts.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_basic45gray.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_browninshmetal.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_brusshed.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_cautionaryyellow.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_cell.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_cgt-concrat.jpg
/Runtime/Textures/FirstBastion/Buildings/fb_cgt-starsflag-v.jpg
They usually have duf-files rather than obj, but you can easily save an object file from a duf file using DAZ Studio. But in any case, the texture fies are always there, excet for the rare cases where there is "iray shaders" that have no textures.
I can only see the items listed on the product page before I buy it, and if no obj file shows there, that ends it.
Assuming I were willing to install DAZ Studio, that would be fine. But it just rubs me the wrong way to have to even open that program with all the needless processes it starts upon launch, and which have to be manually stopped even after closing the software.
My revulsion to studio is enough to keep me from installing it, even to use only as a file converter.
If I was a total anti-daz person, I would not even be here!
I love a lot of their content, I love Cowrarra and Bryce (both DAZ Products), and I am still counting on DAZ to FINALLY keep that Promise Dan Farr personally made to me years ago (before he gave up the reigns of the company) and just Release The Millennium Cow Already!!
That is the only thing that could ever make me want to use DAZ Studio!!
I wouldn't even complain if it were .duf only. The Millennium Cow is still Earth's last, best, hope for peace. It will end all wars, cure cancer, and feed the hungry. There is no limit to what could happen once this Evolutionary Milestone for Humanity is passed.
MOOO!!
Windows and Mac OS X are little different, you know. They include a lot of "services" that really aren't needed but run anyway. For what it's worth, I've rarely seen the CMS related processes remain for more than maybe five minutes on my desktop system running Windows 7 after I've exited DAZ Studio.
I started out as a Poser only user so I understand the frustration. Poser sales got so low we just couldn't afford to do the extra work required for Poser version anymore. If the Poser users come back with the merger with RDNA then we may rethink about doing both version.
The only service that DS used to isntall was the valentina CMS engine; since the switch to PostgreSQL the CMS engine starts with DS or Install manager and stops when they stop - there are no continually running services or applications.
The readme, which you can find via Help at the top of this page and then Documentation Centre>Product readmes, has the file list for each product.
As for the lack of stand-alone OBJ files I think, though I don't know, that that reflects Daz' aim to make the content easy for users - a separate OBJ pacakge, with or without textures, would be llikely to cause confusion as it isn't a complete and ready-to-use item (look at the confusion caused by texture templates).
Again, I fully understand any decision to not include any format specific to any program, even if it's just because "I don't wanna" (which is my argument of last resort about using or not using any program at all for any purpose!) - but I am not referring to anything that requires any extra work at all beyond selecting a file or few and zipping them up. I know frank said he includes them, but I can see customers complaining about that bloating the download (I sympathize with the Danged if you do and Danged if you don't situations Published Artists can feel like they are in). But this idea of an "obj companion file" would need no runtime folder structures, nor cr2 files, and this is - again - only for static props and sets which have no logical reason to be in .duf format in the first place which I can see. Does is make use of shaders easier or something? Maybe for a smart prop, but that should still not exclude this simple action which, as I previously stated, can only boost sales.
And those with no use for it can ignore it.
Clarification: the DSON loader I linked to is a plugin that expands upon the DSON Importer, and allows for importation of environments, figures and poses that don't have Poser companion files. Not sure if you've tried it, but it's well worth a look.