On hair (G3F) - a critical note to vendors
cosmo71
Posts: 3,609
Okay, it is quite simple, if you create hair for g3f that shows parts of the scalp please create scalps which makes it possible to make them fit to the head, means a scalp (hair) that has adjustment morphs which can do what they were created for. Don`t get me wrong, the adjustment morphs work but they are just good as the hair they were made for and if you have a very low poly scalp no adjstment morph can make it fit to a higher poly head. As written at the beginning it is quite simple. Here is an image with an example (If you have a look at the left eye region you can see what I mean).
And please no suggestion to make a subD out of the hair, that does not work, I have tried it. If you create a subD out of the hair some surfaces are not shown in the rendered image, I do not know why, you can see them in pre render but in the rendered image they are gone.
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Comments
Have you tried smoothing and collision
You tend to make very general requests, but I'm sure you're looking at particular hair when you say this. Talking to the vendors in the forums is not going to get much notice because I think only two vendors that I know of frequent the forums. You'd be better off sending in a ticket with the suggestions if you actually want to see something change and give examples. Relatively few vendors look in on the forums.
A bit of scaling and Smoothing Modifier has fixed all hairs I have ever used.
Which ones are those? Zev0 and SickleYeild come to my mind. I see sometimes Slosh pop into threads more than the usual PA, too. :)
Did someone say Slosh? LOL... Sorry, this comment has nothing to do with the question at hand. I wish I had a solution for the OP other than what has already been suggested. One other idea is to parent the hair rather than fitting it... then you can scale it down to mayb 98%, and use smoothing and collision, plus subd, to make the scalp "shrink wrap" to the head. The biggest disadvantage to this, though, is that sometimes the hair (not scalp) will collide with the head in strange ways and may not look right. I do believe the "bigger" hair vendors provide a high enough density in their skullcaps to have a proper fit, as well as including adjustment morphs to get an even better fit.
Smoothing modifier with collision makes it worse on some parts and SubD does not work. I do not know why but if you turn some hair products into a SubD version it shows all hair parts in pre render but in the rendered image some parts of the hair are gone. In this case images, I have used the geneva hair but it is not only the geneva hair that have this issue. As written, if the mesh is very low poly you can do what you want, you will never get it fit to a higher poly mesh, that is fact. If you use this geneva hair for example and you go to smooth shaded, you can see the hugh difference between the g3f mesh and the hair mesh.
P.S.: I use the smoothing modifier and collision because of the neck, if you use it not you get problems with the neck when head/neck bending. But smoothing modifer with collision makes it worse on the temple area.
try it on geneva hair for example. I use the smoothing modifier with collision because of the neck but collision makes it worse on the temple area.
I use smoothing with collision because of the neck (I have used the geneva hair in the image and in the image it is with smoothing and collsion). Collision works great for the neck but makes it worse on the temple area. If you have a look at the posted image above you see what I mean. Compare the scalp mesh to the head mesh. It is easy to see.
What makes me wonder is that I have some short hair for genesis (alexios hair for example) that fits g3f better than hair created for g3f.
Have a look at the image. Such low poly scalp never can work on a higher poly figure.This hair is created for g3f
look at the image, such higher poly scalp will work on a higher poly figure. This hair was created for genesis here fitted to g3f
do you see the difference between these scalps? No? Get yourself some specs.
If you compare the two scalps you will know what I mean with creating higher poly scalps and this is a general issue, higher poly scalps in general will work and fit better. BTW, both are smooth shaded with collision.
Maybe it would work if we would be able to run a product created for g3f through the autofit tool to make it fit to g3f. BTW, these two hairs are just examples. I have hair for V4 that fits better to g3f than hair created for g3f, also hair for genesis fits better.
and this is the problem here at DAZ, you can`t contact vendors, you allways have go through the support ticket stuff which often is slow as a slug. What would be helpfull if vendors have a look at the forums from time to time.
Second: In the images there are two hair products as examples but it is a general issue. Higher poly scalps will work better than lower poly scalps on a higher poly figure. That is a logical thing.
The Geneva has many adjustment and fit morphs, none of which where needed to get it fit Genesis 3 Female base. Fitting it to Genesis 2 Male did require parenting, scaling, translating and one fit morph but it can be made to fit.
One thing I've found is that many hairs don't automatically fit to the figure and I have to tell it to do so.
And another thing is, that many hairs created for g3f do not follow head/neck movements correct - twist and side movements - can someone tell me a reason for that? Hair that is created for a figure should follow movements correct.
so, should I adjust the geneva hair after every movement of the head/neck when it comes to bending or when I use some expressions that has influence on cheecks for example? That is totally worse for a product that is created for a figure.
There are a lot of hairs for g3f out there that do not follow head / neck movents correct when it comes to twist or side movements (examples: Tinkerbell hair, Flashy hair)
What wonders me is that the Alexios hair created for genesis and fitted to g3f fits perfect and follows every move correct. I think I will dump all my g3f hair and will also not bought any new one. I will use some old v4 and genesis hair stuff that fits much better than original g3f hair.
The ponytail of Geneva hair has its own bones that is why it doesn't follow the head and neck so yes you have to pose it separately. You really need to make an effort to learn some of the technical aspects of how 3D products work.
Man I know how it works and I meant not the tail, I meant the neck of the scalp, fit it to your g3f and bend the head and neck foward and have a look at the neck of the scalp. Same on flashy hair for example, fit it to your g3f if you have this hair and twist the neck around and have a look at the scalp, it does not follow correct.
All I have written hear is about the scalps and about nothing else, not the bangs, the tails or what ever else.
Scalp, not ponytail for those haven`t recognized that I am just talking about scalps - caps
This thread is just about the scalps/caps of the hair products not about tails or anything else.
And BTW, who uses the base G3F figure without any shaping morphs making the character individual?