Priced out of a hobby

Jan19 · May 2016

I'm seeing more and more products that I like the look of, but are out of my price range. Thank goodness for flash sales, regular sales, and fast grab.

I don't think I'll give up this hobby though. I wouldn't know how to start my day otherwise. :-)

Petercat · May 2016

Tobor said:

Leana said:

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

I'm not sure it was so much a strategy as going with the market norms of the time. We now live in a world where there's one less major 3D assets player, so the competition has narrowed. Higher prices are expected in such a situation, and that seems what we have. There are now many single products coming out in the $40-60 range, whereas not long ago, this was the rare exception, and primarily the domain of multi-product bundles.

Sales strategies must be constantly retested, or they cease to be of value. That's been my point: how to Daz retest this stuff? They can't easily do blind A-B tests with a random selection of customers. Some of them will compare pricing here on the forum.

I'm actually not all that adverse to price high/sell for less as a general concept, but I personally dislike the gimmicks. I tend to just ignore them, and look for the straight deals. It's how I operate my professional life, and I prefer it in return.

I think that might be what DAZ is doing with their discounts that are given to certain people. Sort of a "What percentage of this group will buy products at Price A, and what percentage of that group will buy at 20% less?" Sort of groping their way to the perfect price point, maybe?

Hey, DAZ, if you want to see how many people will buy at 90% off, I'll be waiting over there by the potted plant.

Petercat · May 2016

DestinysGarden said:

lx said:

Leana said:

lx said:

Leana said:

Tobor said:

Fixmypcmike said:

The academic literature and the results for companies that have tried to have lower base prices rather than frequent sales (e.g. J. C. Penney) is pretty overwhelming, ... I may not like the way a lot of sales are structured, but I highly doubt that Daz is just doing it because they believe it works and doesn't have enough variance in the strategies to have real evidence behind it.

I'm also sure they have valid data of a particular scope, but without a way to do A-B testing with *their* market, there's no way to really tell if another approach would make them more money. These things have to be continually tested, as markets and buying habits change over time.

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

Good to know. I can definitely see it working better overall - though I think that it's still valid that it's bad for newcomers that don't know better, when you're desperately trying to bring new people in.

The main problem with the "lower price and less sales" strategy is that when an item's price doesn't change you have less incentive to buy it right now rather than later (unless you really need it right now, of course).
DAZ had the same problem with PC items before they introduced PC+: items were always $1.99, even on release, so people had a tendency to think "I'll buy it later if I need it, it will still be $1.99".

Right and I shop that way too. What I'm saying is that the problem I see for new hobbyist customers is not really knowing about the system that we all know about, and so wind up intimidated off the bat by new product prices. It's not really an easy thing to fix though I don't think? It's not like you can put a banner up saying "hey don't buy stuff now wait for later" xD

Then again PAs all seem the most focused on their new release sales so there must be plenty of people buying that way, even if the forums mostly suggest otherwise.

Right, PAs are focused on the new release more than anything. I don't think anyone goes into the process of making a new product hoping it will sell 500 copies in two years, and be fine with only 20 copies on intro. That is not a sustainable way to run a business. Only those with very large back catalogs, or other sources of income, could afford to do it anyway. Some PAs will even pull new products from their catalog if the intro sales were bad, so those products don't even get the chance to see how well they might have done over the long term. Here is the funny thing though, the products that seem to have the most staying power over the long term, are also the ones that sold well on intro.

Again, I'm not judging anyone's buying habits. I've bought stuff on intro as a "more like this, please" vote, and I've also wishlisted things for a sale. I definately understand that 3D rendering, as a hobby, can be very expensive and some people have no choice except to wait for extreme sales.

Why would anyone pull a product from their catalogue? Aren't a few sales better than none? Or do you have to rent space at DAZ like at a flea market?

mtl1 · May 2016

Petercat said:

DestinysGarden said:

lx said:

Leana said:

lx said:

Leana said:

Tobor said:

Fixmypcmike said:

The academic literature and the results for companies that have tried to have lower base prices rather than frequent sales (e.g. J. C. Penney) is pretty overwhelming, ... I may not like the way a lot of sales are structured, but I highly doubt that Daz is just doing it because they believe it works and doesn't have enough variance in the strategies to have real evidence behind it.

I'm also sure they have valid data of a particular scope, but without a way to do A-B testing with *their* market, there's no way to really tell if another approach would make them more money. These things have to be continually tested, as markets and buying habits change over time.

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

Good to know. I can definitely see it working better overall - though I think that it's still valid that it's bad for newcomers that don't know better, when you're desperately trying to bring new people in.

The main problem with the "lower price and less sales" strategy is that when an item's price doesn't change you have less incentive to buy it right now rather than later (unless you really need it right now, of course).
DAZ had the same problem with PC items before they introduced PC+: items were always $1.99, even on release, so people had a tendency to think "I'll buy it later if I need it, it will still be $1.99".

Right and I shop that way too. What I'm saying is that the problem I see for new hobbyist customers is not really knowing about the system that we all know about, and so wind up intimidated off the bat by new product prices. It's not really an easy thing to fix though I don't think? It's not like you can put a banner up saying "hey don't buy stuff now wait for later" xD

Then again PAs all seem the most focused on their new release sales so there must be plenty of people buying that way, even if the forums mostly suggest otherwise.

Right, PAs are focused on the new release more than anything. I don't think anyone goes into the process of making a new product hoping it will sell 500 copies in two years, and be fine with only 20 copies on intro. That is not a sustainable way to run a business. Only those with very large back catalogs, or other sources of income, could afford to do it anyway. Some PAs will even pull new products from their catalog if the intro sales were bad, so those products don't even get the chance to see how well they might have done over the long term. Here is the funny thing though, the products that seem to have the most staying power over the long term, are also the ones that sold well on intro.

Again, I'm not judging anyone's buying habits. I've bought stuff on intro as a "more like this, please" vote, and I've also wishlisted things for a sale. I definately understand that 3D rendering, as a hobby, can be very expensive and some people have no choice except to wait for extreme sales.

Why would anyone pull a product from their catalogue? Aren't a few sales better than none? Or do you have to rent space at DAZ like at a flea market?

It's mainly due to product support, I believe. Every product that is active is a product that the PA has to maintain.

Havos · May 2016

mtl1 said:

Petercat said:

DestinysGarden said:

lx said:

Leana said:

lx said:

Leana said:

Tobor said:

Fixmypcmike said:

The academic literature and the results for companies that have tried to have lower base prices rather than frequent sales (e.g. J. C. Penney) is pretty overwhelming, ... I may not like the way a lot of sales are structured, but I highly doubt that Daz is just doing it because they believe it works and doesn't have enough variance in the strategies to have real evidence behind it.

I'm also sure they have valid data of a particular scope, but without a way to do A-B testing with *their* market, there's no way to really tell if another approach would make them more money. These things have to be continually tested, as markets and buying habits change over time.

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

Good to know. I can definitely see it working better overall - though I think that it's still valid that it's bad for newcomers that don't know better, when you're desperately trying to bring new people in.

The main problem with the "lower price and less sales" strategy is that when an item's price doesn't change you have less incentive to buy it right now rather than later (unless you really need it right now, of course).
DAZ had the same problem with PC items before they introduced PC+: items were always $1.99, even on release, so people had a tendency to think "I'll buy it later if I need it, it will still be $1.99".

Right and I shop that way too. What I'm saying is that the problem I see for new hobbyist customers is not really knowing about the system that we all know about, and so wind up intimidated off the bat by new product prices. It's not really an easy thing to fix though I don't think? It's not like you can put a banner up saying "hey don't buy stuff now wait for later" xD

Then again PAs all seem the most focused on their new release sales so there must be plenty of people buying that way, even if the forums mostly suggest otherwise.

Right, PAs are focused on the new release more than anything. I don't think anyone goes into the process of making a new product hoping it will sell 500 copies in two years, and be fine with only 20 copies on intro. That is not a sustainable way to run a business. Only those with very large back catalogs, or other sources of income, could afford to do it anyway. Some PAs will even pull new products from their catalog if the intro sales were bad, so those products don't even get the chance to see how well they might have done over the long term. Here is the funny thing though, the products that seem to have the most staying power over the long term, are also the ones that sold well on intro.

Again, I'm not judging anyone's buying habits. I've bought stuff on intro as a "more like this, please" vote, and I've also wishlisted things for a sale. I definately understand that 3D rendering, as a hobby, can be very expensive and some people have no choice except to wait for extreme sales.

Why would anyone pull a product from their catalogue? Aren't a few sales better than none? Or do you have to rent space at DAZ like at a flea market?

It's mainly due to product support, I believe. Every product that is active is a product that the PA has to maintain.

That is true, but I imagine that poorly selling products produce very few support requests. For Rendo, I believe there is a rule that if a product fails to sell at all in a month, then it is put in clearance, and if it fails to get sales whilst there (not sure how long they wait, maybe 2 months), then it is withdrawn from sale. I don't think DAZ has a similar policy, but they may withdraw a product from sale if it is not selling at all.

fixmypcmike · May 2016

Tobor said:

Leana said:

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

I'm not sure it was so much a strategy as going with the market norms of the time.

It was; the market norms at that time were 60-70% sales.

Petercat · May 2016

mtl1 said:

Petercat said:

DestinysGarden said:

Right, PAs are focused on the new release more than anything. I don't think anyone goes into the process of making a new product hoping it will sell 500 copies in two years, and be fine with only 20 copies on intro. That is not a sustainable way to run a business. Only those with very large back catalogs, or other sources of income, could afford to do it anyway. Some PAs will even pull new products from their catalog if the intro sales were bad, so those products don't even get the chance to see how well they might have done over the long term. Here is the funny thing though, the products that seem to have the most staying power over the long term, are also the ones that sold well on intro.

Again, I'm not judging anyone's buying habits. I've bought stuff on intro as a "more like this, please" vote, and I've also wishlisted things for a sale. I definately understand that 3D rendering, as a hobby, can be very expensive and some people have no choice except to wait for extreme sales.

Why would anyone pull a product from their catalogue? Aren't a few sales better than none? Or do you have to rent space at DAZ like at a flea market?

It's mainly due to product support, I believe. Every product that is active is a product that the PA has to maintain.

Okay, thanks. That makes sense.

Daywalker Designs · May 2016

Tobor said:

Leana said:

DAZ has actually tried the "lower base price and less sales" strategy for a while a few years ago. Since they went back to the "sales of the time" strategy my guess is that it wasn't as successful as they hoped....

I'm not sure it was so much a strategy as going with the market norms of the time. We now live in a world where there's one less major 3D assets player, so the competition has narrowed. Higher prices are expected in such a situation, and that seems what we have. There are now many single products coming out in the $40-60 range, whereas not long ago, this was the rare exception, and primarily the domain of multi-product bundles.

Sales strategies must be constantly retested, or they cease to be of value. That's been my point: how to Daz retest this stuff? They can't easily do blind A-B tests with a random selection of customers. Some of them will compare pricing here on the forum.

I'm actually not all that adverse to price high/sell for less as a general concept, but I personally dislike the gimmicks. I tend to just ignore them, and look for the straight deals. It's how I operate my professional life, and I prefer it in return.

There are a number of Published Artists here that are also vendors at other stores, like ironman13 and SickleYield. I know SickleYield has stated that she would have to put out more product on the one site that she sells at to make anywhere near what she brings in here, and that site has lower prices on content sold there. So reducing prices does not necissarily mean that more people will buy it.

CypherFOX · May 2016

Greetings,

One of the reasons I've seen PA's remove items is because, essentially, 'The item no longer meets my quality standards.'

I can't fault them for that; I've known enough artists in my day, some of whom have literally BURNED old sketchbooks that had art they were very unhappy about the quality level of. It's not quite the same thing, but many artists feel a form of pain at seeing people buy stuff that is so much lower quality than what they're currently making.

-- Morgan

Slosh · May 2016

To those in this thread who made mention of PAs who might read this thread... I have to say that I am actually relieved to read most of what is written here. A lot of threads are created that make me feel unhappy about what our customer base is thinking, in regards to PA productivity, quality, and pricing. To a PA, hearing "I put it on my wishlist" comes as a mixed compliment. On the one hand, "Yay! They liked my work!" On the other hand, "man, a lot of things sit in the wishlist never to be purchased until they can get it for $5". That's income I don't get now at all, and income I may or may not ever get as newer, shinier stuff makes the wishlisted items less compelling and therefore forgotten.

But this thread has been a collection of very well thought out, well conveyed messages of what is going on in the minds of buyers. I, for one, appreciate reading that most of you understand why we are pricing things the way we are, and that you recognize that we rely on this as our income. I also appreciate that you have been able to show your points of view without being nasty or accusatory. It has been civil and your points are not being lost in a sea of negativity.

Thank-you for being candid and for keeping your minds open. I sincerely feel good after having read through these comments. As a customer, I agree with so much of what I've read. I/we have to buy content as well as the customers. I recently finished a product and spent approximately $230 on hair (at Daz and other marketplaces). And that doesn't even include the outfits I bought for promos. Sometimes it seems the income I make from selling content at Daz has to go to support my life as well as support my job, leaving no time or money whatsoever for a hobby. I can't remember the last "just for fun" render I made. I still buy stuff on impulse just because I think it looks cool (and it sits unused in my runtime, lol), so I fully understand and sympathize with what you, the customers, are going through.

Petercat · May 2016

Slosh said:

To those in this thread who made mention of PAs who might read this thread... I have to say that I am actually relieved to read most of what is written here. A lot of threads are created that make me feel unhappy about what our customer base is thinking, in regards to PA productivity, quality, and pricing. To a PA, hearing "I put it on my wishlist" comes as a mixed compliment. On the one hand, "Yay! They liked my work!" On the other hand, "man, a lot of things sit in the wishlist never to be purchased until they can get it for $5". That's income I don't get now at all, and income I may or may not ever get as newer, shinier stuff makes the wishlisted items less compelling and therefore forgotten.

But this thread has been a collection of very well thought out, well conveyed messages of what is going on in the minds of buyers. I, for one, appreciate reading that most of you understand why we are pricing things the way we are, and that you recognize that we rely on this as our income. I also appreciate that you have been able to show your points of view without being nasty or accusatory. It has been civil and your points are not being lost in a sea of negativity.

Thank-you for being candid and for keeping your minds open. I sincerely feel good after having read through these comments. As a customer, I agree with so much of what I've read. I/we have to buy content as well as the customers. I recently finished a product and spent approximately $230 on hair (at Daz and other marketplaces). And that doesn't even include the outfits I bought for promos. Sometimes it seems the income I make from selling content at Daz has to go to support my life as well as support my job, leaving no time or money whatsoever for a hobby. I can't remember the last "just for fun" render I made. I still buy stuff on impulse just because I think it looks cool (and it sits unused in my runtime, lol), so I fully understand and sympathize with what you, the customers, are going through.

Thank you for the pleasant and thoughtful response, Slosh. Are both "Slosh" and "Sloshwerks" your stores?

jakiblue · May 2016

Slosh said:

To those in this thread who made mention of PAs who might read this thread... I have to say that I am actually relieved to read most of what is written here. A lot of threads are created that make me feel unhappy about what our customer base is thinking, in regards to PA productivity, quality, and pricing. To a PA, hearing "I put it on my wishlist" comes as a mixed compliment. On the one hand, "Yay! They liked my work!" On the other hand, "man, a lot of things sit in the wishlist never to be purchased until they can get it for $5". That's income I don't get now at all, and income I may or may not ever get as newer, shinier stuff makes the wishlisted items less compelling and therefore forgotten.

See, this is what worries me sometimes. Often when a new product is out, and there is a commercial thread, I'll say "that is so cool! put it on my wishlist for now!" - which to me, means "i love and adore your stuff, but I am dead broke right now, but will pick it up as soon as I have the spare cash, because I really really want it"..it's a [lame] way of me trying to show my support for the PA. It's got nothing to do with "hey I like your stuff but you are way too expensive so I'm not buying it till I can get it at 90% off". It's trying to let them know that they are making good stuff that I will use, and there IS a market for it, but I just gotta wait till I have enough money. I worry sometimes when I say that, if the PA is looking at it and thinking "she is such a cheap cow, this product took me 300 hours to make and I have priced it fairly and I'm still only getting about 20c an hour for my work, why even bother". LOL. Like, it's a backhanded compliment. So then I think "hmm maybe I shouldn't say anything"....and then I wonder if they are wondering why no-one is talking in their thread. Especially if it's someone I know and like. :sigh: In an ideal world where I am as rich as a Hilton, showing my support would be buying everything left, right and centre. In my actual world, my compliments and words are about the only support I can give sometimes.

Slosh said:

But this thread has been a collection of very well thought out, well conveyed messages of what is going on in the minds of buyers. I, for one, appreciate reading that most of you understand why we are pricing things the way we are, and that you recognize that we rely on this as our income. I also appreciate that you have been able to show your points of view without being nasty or accusatory. It has been civil and your points are not being lost in a sea of negativity.

Thank-you for being candid and for keeping your minds open. I sincerely feel good after having read through these comments. As a customer, I agree with so much of what I've read. I/we have to buy content as well as the customers. I recently finished a product and spent approximately $230 on hair (at Daz and other marketplaces). And that doesn't even include the outfits I bought for promos. Sometimes it seems the income I make from selling content at Daz has to go to support my life as well as support my job, leaving no time or money whatsoever for a hobby. I can't remember the last "just for fun" render I made. I still buy stuff on impulse just because I think it looks cool (and it sits unused in my runtime, lol), so I fully understand and sympathize with what you, the customers, are going through.

I noticed that the vast majority of people posting here aren't really grumbling and complaining "hey prices are too high, guys" but are more simply explaining their buying habits, and explaining why they don't spend as much as they used to. And it's being done in a very nice way, which I'm glad about. A couple of years ago, hubby and I worked full time and had full time incomes and I was buying every week and getting stuff I wanted with no problems. But as I've stated before, our finances have changed in the last two years - he's on a disability support pension and I'm on a carer pension for him. So our incomes have dropped by about 70/80%. But of course, our bills have stayed the same. LOL. So like I said before, it's got nothing to do with the prices being charged by DAZ and/or PA's...and EVERYTHING to do with "well crap, we certainly don't have the money we used to". :) On the bright side, I am extremely lucky in that I have a lot of friends who create stuff and every now and then, they will gift me their new and shiny product - and believe me, I count myself extremely lucky for that and never ever take it for granted. And every so often, when we are in the rare situation where we have no bills due that fortnight pay, I have enough "mad" money to snag a shiny new product or two -and that is what I content myself with. :)

lx_2807502 · May 2016

A couple of things come to mind:

The first (that'll probably make PAs hate me) is I'm really tired of the "PAs have to put food on the table" excuse being thrown out (not in this thread, but elsewhere) and I'm really glad to see it not being used here. I've yet to see a case where that excuse was actually relevant in separating PA needs from customer needs. We want to support PAs to make cool things. We want to buy them. It's just that many of us can't afford to buy whatever at a day's notice and need to pick and choose more carefully.

The second thing, and this was a big complaint of mine about the more expensive things like Pro Bundles: there is a reason games, movies, music, and basically every other form of hobby with a release date announces it way in advance. I understand that some PAs put teasers and things on personal pages to build anticipation, but there is no real central source for this, nor any way to make use of the secondary purpose: saving for something you're looking forward to and really want. Maybe it doesn't work in Daz world, but it seems the majority of the posts in this thread are in the "we can't just spend a ton at the drop of a hat" type thing. I have however seen a few mentions of users saving for items they know are coming that they've seen posted elsewhere.

Jan19 · May 2016

lx said:

A couple of things come to mind:

The first (that'll probably make PAs hate me) is I'm really tired of the "PAs have to put food on the table" excuse being thrown out (not in this thread, but elsewhere) and I'm really glad to see it not being used here. I've yet to see a case where that excuse was actually relevant in separating PA needs from customer needs. We want to support PAs to make cool things. We want to buy them. It's just that many of us can't afford to buy whatever at a day's notice and need to pick and choose more carefully.

The second thing, and this was a big complaint of mine about the more expensive things like Pro Bundles: there is a reason games, movies, music, and basically every other form of hobby with a release date announces it way in advance. I understand that some PAs put teasers and things on personal pages to build anticipation, but there is no real central source for this, nor any way to make use of the secondary purpose: saving for something you're looking forward to and really want. Maybe it doesn't work in Daz world, but it seems the majority of the posts in this thread are in the "we can't just spend a ton at the drop of a hat" type thing. I have however seen a few mentions of users saving for items they know are coming that they've seen posted elsewhere.

Yes. In the back of my mind, there lurks the thought, "Lilith 7 is probably coming." And that sort of theme is my cup of tea, precisely. So I'm saving. If Lil 7 arrives and isn't what I'm expecting, then there'll be a little extra, which is ok, too. There's always something good, around the corner.

BUT -- if I knew what Lilith 7 looked like in advance, and knew she wasn't for me -- I'd budget differently.

Then again, it seems that DAZ relies on the element of pleasant surprise. Holding your breath, wondering what IS right around the corner. That's pretty cool, too. Keeps me constantly checking the shop updates. :-)

The older I get, the more adaptable I seem to get. So whatever the policy is...I'll do my best to work with it. Unless "it" is totally outrageus, and I draw the line at totally outrageous.

Peter Fulford · May 2016

If PAs and DAZ take initial, peak sales performance as an indicator of what to produce next (seems logical) then they also ought to take careful note of when a new item is used as part of a promotion for other items. I have purchased new releases I wasn't especially interested in (at the release price), simply because doing so dramatically reduced the cost of cart loads of items I was interested in. Buying a new release in that situation is like getting it for better than free. I don't suppose I'm alone in taking advantage of these types of promotions, so sellers should be careful that they're not getting the wrong signal.

lx_2807502 · May 2016

I've got to admit I do check the store each day to see what the new thing of the day is, but it's just as true that I'm mostly just looking for curiosity: pretty much all of my current budget is saved for upcoming figures that I'll probably want (Aiko pls don't disappoint~)

George comes to mind as a character that I thought was fantastic, sold amazingly, but I also know that I and many others picked him up because he brought down the total of our carts on a big sale day.

Novica · May 2016

Peter Fulford said:

If PAs and DAZ take initial, peak sales performance as an indicator of what to produce next (seems logical) then they also ought to take careful note of when a new item is used as part of a promotion for other items. I have purchased new releases I wasn't especially interested in (at the release price), simply because doing so dramatically reduced the cost of cart loads of items I was interested in. Buying a new release in that situation is like getting it for better than free. I don't suppose I'm alone in taking advantage of these types of promotions, so sellers should be careful that they're not getting the wrong signal.

Excellent point- such as the ones yesterday, with the character/bundle being bought with the cityscape and vice versa. How do PAs know which one, or both, were the attraction? If offered separately with those same discounts, would both sell?

Slosh · May 2016

Jakiblue! I'm so sorry.... I was being a bit cheeky with the wish list comment. I completely understand where you are coming from, and we don't take it the way you describe it. Honestly, we are all on budgets, and I have a wishlist at Daz, too. I really wish you hadn't taken my words that way. It really is a compliment to know that your work is valued enough to be saved for a time when it is easier to buy. Plenty of things get passed over completely and not even wishlisted, so nobody is thinking you or anyone is being "cheap" for planning your spending. So, please, don't think that. I should have probably been more clear about that or not said it at all. Of course I would love to have more sales during the intro period, but I love having back catalog sales, too. To see something I made a year or two ago getting into the hands of an artist is gratifying to me. I'm sorry I gave. The wrong impression.

Peter Fulford · May 2016

Novica said:

Peter Fulford said:

If PAs and DAZ take initial, peak sales performance as an indicator of what to produce next (seems logical) then they also ought to take careful note of when a new item is used as part of a promotion for other items. I have purchased new releases I wasn't especially interested in (at the release price), simply because doing so dramatically reduced the cost of cart loads of items I was interested in. Buying a new release in that situation is like getting it for better than free. I don't suppose I'm alone in taking advantage of these types of promotions, so sellers should be careful that they're not getting the wrong signal.

Excellent point- such as the ones yesterday, with the character/bundle being bought with the cityscape and vice versa. How do PAs know which one, or both, were the attraction? If offered separately with those same discounts, would both sell?

That's a more subtle variation of what I was thinking of, but still a good point. Similarly, my Mei Lin reward is likely to persuade me to buy one or more Hayley items now, rather than wait.

The situation I was refering to above is cross-sale multi-stacking discounts. This week I was investigating what my wishlisted DAZ Originals would add up to with the current DO sale (that celebrates the new Studio version). It's not the best DO % reduction ever, but since so many of the DO items I was interested in happened to be by artists involved in the banner promotions this week (some now timed out), my cart total dropped hugely just by adding in a few new releases. The DO % reduction suddenly became very good indeed (a definite buy), and I got some new stuff thrown in.

As it happens, those new items were some nice things I would have picked up eventually - but they might just as well have been low-rez dog poo models and I still would have bought them at the same "price". Without taking note of cross-sale pollination, sellers might conclude there's a big market in doggie doos!

Peter Fulford · May 2016

Wishlist statistics should be taken with a pinch of salt. There is stuff in mine (a greater proportion now since I bought so many wishlisted items this week) that is there simply because I liked the promo art work and wishlisting it was a convenient way of logging it at the time I saw it. There is other stuff in there that is a memory jog; representative of a whole type of item I'm interested in.

Some people might even resent that DAZ is watching and load their wishlist with doggie doos!

jakiblue · May 2016

Oh no Slosh! I didn't mean it like that! I got what you were saying - I was just adding my two cents worth LOL. Sorry, I really didn't mean for you to think I was being mad at you or anything. I totally didn't take it that way, what you were saying. :) It just made me remember what goes through my mind sometimes. :)

Slosh said:

Jakiblue! I'm so sorry.... I was being a bit cheeky with the wish list comment. I completely understand where you are coming from, and we don't take it the way you describe it. Honestly, we are all on budgets, and I have a wishlist at Daz, too. I really wish you hadn't taken my words that way. It really is a compliment to know that your work is valued enough to be saved for a time when it is easier to buy. Plenty of things get passed over completely and not even wishlisted, so nobody is thinking you or anyone is being "cheap" for planning your spending. So, please, don't think that. I should have probably been more clear about that or not said it at all. Of course I would love to have more sales during the intro period, but I love having back catalog sales, too. To see something I made a year or two ago getting into the hands of an artist is gratifying to me. I'm sorry I gave. The wrong impression.

Pack58 · May 2016

Peter Fulford said:

If PAs and DAZ take initial, peak sales performance as an indicator of what to produce next (seems logical) then they also ought to take careful note of when a new item is used as part of a promotion for other items. I have purchased new releases I wasn't especially interested in (at the release price), simply because doing so dramatically reduced the cost of cart loads of items I was interested in. Buying a new release in that situation is like getting it for better than free. I don't suppose I'm alone in taking advantage of these types of promotions, so sellers should be careful that they're not getting the wrong signal.

Totally. Would estimate around 75% of new items I purchase (items not $ value) are bought because they bring the price of wishlisted items down to (often) less then 20% of their list price even when adjusted for the cost of the new item(s).

That said I now pretty much have the breadth of content I was after so will be after depth and my buying habits should change.

Peter Fulford · May 2016

DAZ tells us that forum users are only a small percentage of total buyers, so it's possible (probable?) that most customers are buying in the store with little or no personal knowledge of the PAs or their circumstances. If that's the case then most customers don't care about the decisions and motivations of PAs - because they are simply unaware of them. If that's the case then most customers are buying purely in their own interests; weighing up what an item has to offer them vs what it costs them. Likewise, PAs don't know who the hell these customers are or their circumstances, they just know that they buy more of some stuff than other stuff, and buy more or less of it at various prices.

That's how most markets work. It may seem a bit cold, but it's a very efficient, ongoing way of the most people figuring out the best trading circumstances and making the best decisions.

Oso3D · May 2016

Knowing the cost and the realities PAs face doesn't have to have anything to do with sympathy or obligation to buy anything. It IS important to understanding the realities of pricing -- if a price is far above cost, it's reasonable to be ticked off about it. if it's not, then it encourages a more dispassionate 'this is just not a hobby I can justify spending on.'

Oso3D · May 2016

Also, some products just aren't viable. If nobody is willing to spend what a product costs with reasonable earning, then it's just not a viable business. I do commissions for friends at absurdly low prices mainly because, when it comes down to it, the people who can afford the real price are very few. So I only do it for people I really like and take breaks for other stuff.

Serene Night · May 2016

I still find the prices high. There are others who feel the same as I do, but we've learned not to talk about it because these views aren't well received here.

Sadly, nothing that any of us can do but put stuff on wishlists and wait for a lower price.

Peter Fulford · May 2016

timmins.william said:
Knowing the cost and the realities PAs face doesn't have to have anything to do with sympathy or obligation to buy anything. It IS important to understanding the realities of pricing -- if a price is far above cost, it's reasonable to be ticked off about it. if it's not, then it encourages a more dispassionate 'this is just not a hobby I can justify spending on.'

Those considerations may be made by those (such as forum regulars) with access to such information. But it appears most DAZ customers do not have that information, and thus most likely buy simply on the basis of their own requirements. Does the item interest them sufficiently to pay the asking price?

Oso3D · May 2016

Sure. Most of us do that most of the time. The information is mainly useful for context and what to expect. I've VERY OCCASIONALLY spent money based on considerations like being nice to a specific pa or encouraging specific content. But I assume that's pretty rare.

Peter Fulford · May 2016

Serene Night said:

I still find the prices high. There are others who feel the same as I do, but we've learned not to talk about it because these views aren't well received here.

Disagreement with your viewpoint is not the same thing as a requirement for you to shut up. Only DAZ and the mods can stifle your expression (on their site).

For me, the prices are also high. As are the prices of cars, houses, furniture, bathroom tiles and train journeys.

Serene Night said:

Sadly, nothing that any of us can do but put stuff on wishlists and wait for a lower price.

The same would be true if everyone agreed with you 100%.

The new stuff goes to people with more spending power than me. Same with cars, houses...

Oso3D · May 2016

Horses, Fabrege eggs, luxury cars, pet sloth (man, I'd love a sloth), my own island...

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