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Wow. I wish I could give you some of my old content that I don't use (There's a lot of it), but the EULA won't let me. In fact, unlike just about anything else that I've bought, when I die it all goes "poof" and disappears!
I can't even leave it to the girl who is helping with my webcomic, so I guess that disappears as well. :(
Good thoughts Jaki and Timbales.
There are definitely things to use and re-use again.
Even with some basic/free PC shaders old items can breath again.
I am also at the whims of international currency. A fickle wind at best and lately it takes 20% off of the top. :)
Well, I feel a little better not t be alone. Misery. Company. Yay!
In the end ... art will be made ... as always. :)
Well said, unfortunately most customers really don't care about anything other than their needs. Reading this thread I can picture PAs also reading it and thinking "freakin cheapass customers" LOL I deal with this myself all the time working in retail management.
I have a fairly nice catalog of items from here and other 3D stores which gives me a fair amount of options when creating, so I am thankful to the stores and the PAs that I have supported with my purchases. If my disposable income dried up today, I am fairly confident I would have enough content to keep me creating for a fair amount of time going forward, BUT it would also be limiting as well as since I would have to kit bash more, think outside the box on options more and create more for myself, which takes more time.
This!!!
Why should we? Most of us have no personal connection to any of the PAs, just as we have no personal connection to Nike, or Apple, or Western Digital. Our needs do come first, and if, as much as I might want an Apple gadget, the price is higher than the value, I won't purchase it. The same goes for products offered up for sale by Nike or Western Digital... or by DAZ. As a retail manager, you should understand this.
I won't buy, say, another pair of thigh-high spike heeled boots, even for $1.99, because I have no use for them, thus the value is lower than the asking price. The same goes for example, for a Middle Eastern environment, no matter how nice it is, no matter how much effort the PA has put into it and it's amazing details. The PA might have spent hundreds of hours creating it, DAZ might price it at a level that assures the artist of a decent return for their effort, but because I would never use it, I value it at zero, and I won't be buying it. That's not to say that others won't buy it, but they will only do so if they perceive its value as equal to or greater than the price demanded.
You are right. I don't care much for anything other than my own needs, and the needs of the others for whom I am responsible. Which is the whole purpose of this thread, that we are curtailing our spending here at DAZ (desires) in order to meet our obligations (needs) in other areas.
Not all complaints have equal merit.
And if your complaint boils down to 'I don't have a lot of money so these people should put themselves in the poorhouse to deliver me content I can afford,' well, people are going to point and laugh.
Doing what you need to do to suit your own needs is all fine and dandy, but it's a 2-way street. You can't expect a PA to bend their own needs to suit yours, either. For quite a few PAs, this is their bread and butter. It's how they pay their bills.
Who's saying that? Or should we put ourselves in the poorhouse buying content that we can't afford?
I'm not complaining, I'm explaining.
Well, I would "expect" a PA to do exactly what I'm doing, suit their own needs.
Just where did I say or even imply that I expected a PA to "bend their own needs" to suit mine?
And when did it become my responsibility to help PAs pay their bills?
It was a general comment expanding on the last portion of TW's post above mine.
Oh. Thanks for the clarification.
Let's keep it civil, please. There's no need to accuse others of being selfish or greedy. One can lament the disparity between what they earn and what they want to purchase (whether as customers or vendors) without meaning that the other party is being greedy/selfish or should bow to their needs.
well said!!
That's true of course. The question is if there's a middle way that's more satisfying for customers on a lower income and as profitable (or more profitable) for the PA's than the current pricing / sale formula. I'm not saying that what's currently going on is definately not working well or unfair or wrong. in fact, right now, I think DAZ is probably a pretty well run company. And it seems quite reasonable to assume, at this point, that a large amount of sales gets you quite a good amount business, even if you have to jack up the base prices.
But I'm also having serious trouble buying the 'DAZ knows what they are doing, trust DAZ, they got the data'-argument that keeps popping up. I find it hard to blindly trust a company that did not foresee the amount of backlash they would get for DAZ connect. That not too long ago though it might be a good idea to get into that 3D printing business. That constantly struggles to explain their sales in a way that people can understand. That has frequently (very, very frequently) broken sales. That is still using one of the most outlandish forums I have ever seen (with a new one coming *soon* for several years now). That you have to search using google, because they cannot fix their own search function. And that has up to this point never shown any attempt at serious market research beyond a very occasional poll and 'collecting data'.
And that's OK. DAZ, as we have been told several times, is not a giant company with unlimited ressources so they have to do with what they got when it comes to understanding their market and our spending habits (still could fix a lot in their shop, though). They're a good company but they also fall flat on their face a lot (not unlike me). They're run by people, so let's not overestimate them.
Again, that's not saying that DAZ and the PA's need to change right now and completely. Just that they should keep an open mind and keep experimenting on occasion. Maybe there's a method out there that leads to even more happy customers and even more revenue. And that would make us all happy.
And I remember vendors leave. Want Ken? Want Lisa? Want...
So, personally, I don't ever assume a product will be around forever, particularly a year. If it's 50% and I'll use it fairly soon, I may get it. If 60%, it gets a real hard look.
My buying habits have been altered by the pricing changes as well. I have not invested as heavily in the G3 figures as I have in the G2 figures. G3 is great fun to work with and I was smart enough to grab some really versatile Iray skin shaders so I am really getting more into pushing my knowledge boundaries with the available morph packages and shaders rather than jump on each and every new figure release. The pro bundles have just not been that compelling of late save for a few notable exceptions.
My insta-buys these days are shader bundles and good environments that I can use in multiple ways. Anything else gets wish listed and snagged when the sale prices hit the right point.
Like others have said in this thread, I am sure that some of the PA's reading this are gnashing their teeth and muttering about the "cheapness" of their customers. I'm not really too worried about that. My responsibility is to manage my budget so that i can both pay my bills and indulge my hobby. My purchases are always weighed against that. If something I want is priced out of that price point, it gets wish-listed until a sale brings it within a price I am willing to spend or I purchase a competing product that is already within my budget. Sometimes it even gets taken off the wish list and never even purchased if I see that it never seems to go on sale before a more appealing version /similar item is released that I can purchase. Like many others, I wish I had either unlimited disposable income to throw at this hobby or that I was a graphics art professional with the power of professional budget and a purchasing dept behind me. However that is not the case for me so all the teeth gnashing and grumbling really matter not.
Totally agree. For years I avoided using Blender as I couldn't get my head round the interface. I don't know whether the UI has improved or not, but recently while I was at a loose end, waiting for some of Mech4d's shaders to be released I sat down, watched a few tutorials and followed along. The add-ons that you can get for it make it easy to model simple clothes and props etc and there are a few improvements coming in the next version that will make it even better for that. It's sculpt brushes are fantastic for creating your own character morphs.
Another Daz related piece of advice. If you see anything in the Daz freebies section that you don't own, GET IT!, If you have any content that you got on a magazine cover eg "3D World" and "3D Artist", INSTALL IT! You might not think it's useful at the time, but with clothing conversion and iray shaders etc you can get some fantastic looking renders using some of the really old products.
Ooops .. missed this, sorry. There is a new forum at Rendo which is keeping us all up-to-date with developments. I don't think that I'm allowed to link to that particular site but look at the forum front page and scroll down to the VirtualWorldDynamics forum. What we are waiting for right now is the beta testing of the DAZ Studio Bridge for VWD. The combined product (VWD plus Bridge) will then go on sale here at DAZ but will cost more than the Poser version which doesn't need the bridge. So I'm hoping for the usual 30% PC+ discount on new products.
As for the debate about PAs vs customers, if a PA comes up with something that really appeals - like more versatile clothing with lots of morphs (such as "undress" morphs) or high quality models like the Stonemason sets, I think there will always be a desire for them, so long as the price is reasonable. I think that the days of buying dresses than bend like sheet metal are coming to an end - especially with the advent of utilities like VWD (actually, VWD should give new life to all those bend-resistant clothes that sit in my library unused since the day I bought them).
*Puts on PA hat* I want to adress this. If you like the item, if it is a good value and you can afford it, if you want to see more items like it in the future, you do need to buy it on release. The first 24-72 hour's sales send a clear message to Daz, and the PA who made it, what sort of items they should invest their time in doing more of.
*Puts on customer hat* I'm going to cry in the corner with the rest of you about all the pretty new shinies I want but don't have cash for right now because I'm still recovering from paying the tax man.
Note: all my issues are clearly my own, and no attempt at sympathy for a PA has been made, nor any attempt to claim that prices are, or are not, too high for the customers. We all have our own comfort levels with what is affordable. No judgement is being made. Sympathy is expressed for all those with financial hardships.
Nice post, DG. The tax man collected from me, too. Plus, I had to reduce deductions, so he won't get me again so bad (hopefully) next year. That means I have less $ to throw into the economy.
Life ain't fair; we just gotta make the best of it, I guess.
So nobody tracks sales beyond 72 hours? That's one of the silliest things I have ever heard of from a business POV.
PAs need to decide what to make next, so yes they look at the early uptake on a product - the sales from wishlist over a year later are going to be too late to give useful guidance. And generally the bulk of those early sales are in that initial window. It's nott hat later data is ignored, but it isn't as useful or as timely.
Ok. That makes sense.
As I said earlier in the thread somewhere, I'm buying a lot less and at the moment am mostly keen to pick up stuff that will help me reshape/resurface/revamp and get the best out of what I've already got, wishlisting other stuff I might be interested in for when it goes on sale further down the line. So... if everyone's buying habits were currently like mine (unlikely), this would supply PAs with the data that shaders and scripts etc sell right out of the gate, and would eventually supply Daz with the data that the less versatile stuff is saleable but might possibly be overpriced.
I was in the middle of making a point here, but my caffeine-o-meter is screaming 'EMPTY!' and I've forgotten it, but it was something along the lines of the idea that there's nothing in the above data that need leave anyone as losers. The PAs still know what sells, and those with a talent for creating beautiful things that won't be used in any where near every render by most people (e.g hot dog carts etc) get a chance to sell more units and make a few quid if the prices of those items are dropped a bit at the outset. Taking no notice of what the data is saying will just see people heading for the door, PAs and artists alike, but adapting to it a bit keeps us all here until times pick up again for everyone.
We've all got a part to play in keeping the ship afloat. It makes me feel uncomfortable seeing people being made to feel guilty for having to spend less here for now, and it makes about as much sense as berating the people who buy every pair of chain mail knickers on the day of release when there is real-world famine and destruction out there. We're not here to judge each other's buying habits, are we? We're here to get the best out of Daz Studio, not the worst out of each other. <Group hug :) >
Glad you finished your thought. :)
I feel for the artist who needs to make a living but many of us are on very tight budgets. The recent and expensive GPU purchase which incidentally required a whole new PC to go with it practically blew my budget for the next 3 years so, sympathy aside, I can't spend as much now. A product that allows me to make further use of my existing library has now become crucial to this hobby of mine. I'm guessing that DAZ and the PAs assume that the user base is generally well to do and can afford to buy new hardware as well as keep buying store products.
I'm also sure they have valid data of a particular scope, but without a way to do A-B testing with *their* market, there's no way to really tell if another approach would make them more money. These things have to be continually tested, as markets and buying habits change over time.
Once you start down the road of heavy discounts based on high retail prices, the retailer becomes fairly locked in, and there's little (easy) chance of turning back. It's a slippery slope that many retailers just avoid, because of these very problems. Walmart and Target are good examples of starting with, and keeping, low base pricing and very modest, if any, sales.
What Daz has effectively done -- and it's their business to do as they please -- is they've trained their customer to only buy when things are on sale. What they can't know now, with all the changes in the marketplace, etc., is whether lower prices with modest sales would make them more money. (They're obviously making money, but every businss wants to make more money.)
That wanders into "speculation as fact" territory, but nevertheless since all those who have grounds to know continually tell us that most sales still occur during the initial "new&shiny" launch period, then what you state is challenged by evidence. Unless you're counting the introductory discounts as part of the "problem" sales, in which case the discussion becomes pointless.
Frequent but irregular deep sales on otherwise high full prices are a way of maximising revenue from the back catalogue. The stuff that is left after the biggest purchase period.
Also challenged by evidence (I just did a brief online search) is the notion that Walmart and Target don't have big sales.
edit - purchace? Shoot me now.
When you look at the "What's Hot" list, you can see that other than the V7/M7 pro bundles, most of the products in the list are new products, so clearly many people are buying products on release. Whilst Jack's "Library" is also near the top of the list, and this is a fairly old product, that is largely down to the fact that there is a PC+ iray upgrade for it, and the base product itself is in Flash Grab at 70% off. Still it goes to show, when well marketed, old products do sell.
Couldn't there be a way that things in people's wish lists could be revealed to PAs? I will often buy one new thing that triggers bigger sales on old things, then wishlist some of the other new items waiting for a bigger sale. The PA should know that those things are desired even if not purchased immediately... And other times I just buy the cheapest new thing there is, whether I need/want it or not because it makes everything else in my cart go down drastically, and I am basically getting it for free, so those initial sales results are not really accurately showing customers' preferences for new products....