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Honestly, the only reason to buy something when it's new at DAZ now is if it's part of a bundled deal that drops the overall prices so that the averaged price is at least 60% off every item in the set. DAZ's marketing department has worked very, very hard to devalue older products at an ever increasing rate, so it was inevitible that products would start getting priced higher to allow more room for discounting in three months. Because it WILL be on sale for 50 to 60% off within three months, and most likely 70% off within the year.
This. exactly. I'm to the point where I have so much stuff already anyway that I go through and look at stuff and think, no, I don't really need it, nor can I afford it. What I look for now are the things that will help me make better use of the stuff I already have. Things like skin convertors or pose converters, lighting sets or special effects and shaders although I am learning how to make my own and use the templated etc that are included in many of the products. Good morphs as well, because Sim Tenero's randomizer is wicked awesome. But even those kind of products have to be at a really good price or I just can't justify spending it. And its not because I don't thing the product or the vendors don't deserve it, because they do. But like everyone else, our circumstances have changed a bit. And we want to move sometime in the next 2 or 3 years (my last kid graduates college next year) so I need to be shovelling as much money as I can into that particular fund. So I ooh and ahh and work with the (large) amount of content I already have.
And learning blender is on my list of things to do.
Yeah, I've definitely learned my lesson with purchasing too much content. It's a matter of knowing what you already have versus what you want to buy.
The only issue is that there isn't a good way to catalog my current library so it's hard to know what I do and don't have. Hopefully that issue is better with the new version of Daz Studio.
It took the list of all my purchases and Copied it page by page into Ms Excel so I could see all the products I have and the cost. I also included the link to the item so I could quickly link to it to see what it was.
I then catogorized it on the excel spreadsheet to make it easier to find the right stuff.
Yeah, that's pretty much my problem now: I've been accumulating content for more than ten years, and it's approaching 1 TB. It's now scattered across about a dozen different runtimes, and synced on both a network share and an external USB drive. It's reached the point where I no longer know where half of my content is! (In fact, I no longer know what half of it is!)
I really need to lay off the binge-buying until I can get a handle on what I already have (well, except for PC+ items, of course!); I may find that I don't really need any more.
Or, in the immortal words of Steve Martin: 'Na-a-a-hh!'
Oh, and another thing too: I keep buying stuff that I want and not stuff that I actually *need* -- that is, I need scenes, environments and props instead of clothing.
I've had to choose between buying new or old content. The prices on some stuff (new and old) is just nuts. Plus, I only buy at "full price" if I need that item in my collection.
I've even sacrificed my gaming hobby just to keep up with Daz3D. If Daz3D becomes too expensive to carry on with, subscription based, too heavy reliant on Encrypted content, or encrypted only, then I shall probably go back to gaming. I do game now, just not as much as I used to. My free time (pretty much) revolves around Daz3D.
It'll be a very dark day for me if I have to walk away from Daz3D, as I'm pretty sure it keeps some of my demons dormant.
I routinely check my wishlist (which is 90% DAZ originals), but nothing there ever really goes on sale in proportion to the age, version or usefulness of the items. An example of what I mean... Not on sale, Victoria 4 Pro Bundle is $99, Victoria 5 Pro Bundle is $124, Victoria 6 Pro Bundle is $134 and the Victoria 7 Pro Bundle is $134... For the most part, the other characters in the same series (4,5,6 and 7) reflect similar prices... I suppose the logic is if you don't significantly reduce the prices of old stuff, you are more likely to sell new stuff... (EDITED-to indicate that I removed a whole rather amusing paragraph about what I think about that)... But conversely one can argue, not reducing the price on old stuff just means you sell neither, but that's an argument against the gods of marketing that mere mortals can't win. Whatever... Occasionally I come across something on sale that I find to be a good buy, while my wishlist just sits there growing mold and mildew... I think a family of field mice are living in back of the Michael 6 bundle... Which is probably okay since by the time we get Michael 23, M6 Pro will be like $25, and the mice will have long since moved out... So score!.... Right? No? Megh... Whatever... Granted, there are some good sales here and there, but they are few and far between for people like me who don't go in for stacking, punching, juggling, whifflesnorping and whatnot... I tend to go for straightforward sales that don't require me to buy stuff I don't really want or need. In real life I don't buy a case of hog ointment just to save $2 on a package of sweat socks... If the store wants to sell me socks for $2 less, then I'll buy them... Otherwise I get it somewhere else or wait till the hogs chew a whole in my good socks. But either way I don't need the hog ointment.
Mostly my complaint is against older DAZ stuff... PA stuff is a different matter... I don't know how people arrive at the prices that are charged, there are a bunch of things I've seen that are a bit pricey, but are still a great bargain considering the level of detail, realism and effort and likewise there are a bunch of things that I've seen (and sorry to say this) which I feel I could do better (that's pretty bad) and the price does not reflect the effort. But, that's just my stupid opinion... Most stuff is pretty good and in the ballpark for the target audience... But not knowing who or what actually determines a product's price I generally defer to the PA's call... If you think that is what it's worth and you feel you are asking a fair price, then good for you... If I like I'll get it, or wait for a sale... If not maybe next time and good luck. With PA stuff, I feel like me complaining about a sale is like undervaluing their work and in general, that's not fair... Then again I have no idea what the set up is for the people who create the DAZ originals, my guess is it's a contract or set fee... So hopefully they have been paid (handsomely in gold bars and smoked pork products) and are not relying on any percentage of the sales, thus giving me a clear area to complain about stuff. I think I forgot where I was going with this...
. I dunno maybe its just me. But I think you get to a point( been here long enough) using daz that you build such a huge library of content that it does not matter anymore when you see some thing you like but can't afford. Beside most everything been release I'm not using anyway like genesis 3 So it makes it easier to not feel bad about not buying it. .. I don't even bother wish listing items anymore, unless its something i know for a fact i will use in a project. Other wise i relies everything has gone up "cost of living wise" everything but my pay and i'm doing my best to change that by looking for another job...lol Plus keep my eye on flash sales and the fast grab for things i do use :)
But if a Daz were to ever release a un encrypted Japanese fishing village with a working dock.. it be a instant buy!
take a look at the software prices that PA's have to buy to be able to keep up with current 3D tech, so they can produce the quality items that users demand
Currency conversion has been the online-buying killer for me the last couple of years. When I started this hobby, our dollar was at par. This morning it was worth 76 cents (which is better than the 68 cents it was a few months ago). Imagine that every dollar you earn is only worth 76 cents when you try to spend it, and it didn't use to be that way. But this has affected all of my online shopping, not just for 3D content.
exactly
Good point and like the OP I am not complaining or angry, just poor. :)
Well, there's a number of things at play here, the main being whether or not the purchase of older content counts as an incremental sale/purchase -- which is dependent on the amount of back-catalogued content DAZ sells within a given year outside of sales periods versus within. I can see V4 content still selling fairly well given its age, but not so much for legacy content (V3 and older). Selling older content with a massive discount *does* drive up the incremental sales number *and* is hugely profitable as these incremental sales have little to no incremental costs.
However, the problem is that DAZ caters to a niche market with limited users. Holding too many sales would drive down the number of potential customers, leading to a gradual devaluing of their back-catalogue as no one is left to purchase it. Not only that, but there's nothing to replenish the back-catalogue so running a massive 80-90% sale of V3 content means that they'll have to gradually enroach onto their V4 content sooner or later.
Concerning V4 specifically though: I think we just had a massive V4 sale within the past month... I think Mother's Day? Or even before that.
The constant sales are the problem. PAs and DAZ have to raise the base cost to account for the 45%, 50%, 60% off, etc. sales they have every week.
Generally at this point I can wait for a new item to go on sale. There are so many scenes I want to create, that I actually do have the items for, by the time I'm finished the stuff I need has gone on sale a few times.
Plus I'm still learning. I don't have the skill set to do the majority of scenes I'd like to do even if I had all the stuff required.
The V4 / M4 stuff was in sales at 80% off a couple of years ago, with Genesis at 70%.
I suspect DAZ is pretty good at maximising the revenue from their back catalogue.
Yes, the high prices and constant sales are a problem, but it's an impossible task to convince marketers of that. It's a classic "don't drink your Kool-Aid" dilemma. There is is always the risk of believing whatever numbers you set out in front of you, because they always fulfill your expectations. Once you heavily discount from upraised prices, it's nearly impossible to reverse course.
The huge problem for an outfit like Daz is that there is virtually no way to do A-B testing, in order to be assured this way yields the best bottom line. Without the benefit of a parallel universe, or sales channels that are truly closed from price sharing, there's no way to tell if it's better to have lower prices and modest occasional sales, or high prices and constant steep sales. I can only speak for myself and say that my buying has gone down considerably with rise of retail prices. I never buy anything off sale. Since there's always the possibility that a missed sale one day will be a missed sale forever -- I just forget about the product or lose interest -- I'm my own troubling trend.
The combination of online sales, and an active and vocal forum of users who share sale prices, it's virtually assured that Daz's pricing structure cannot be independently analyzed, which means any change would probably come with great gnashing of teeth. Given that, I think the current pricing policy is likely here to stay.
The academic literature and the results for companies that have tried to have lower base prices rather than frequent sales (e.g. J. C. Penney) is pretty overwhelming, and with thousands of products being sold over many years, I'm sure Daz3D has amassed plenty of data on what works. The way that a number of long-term sales like the PA sale and March Madness have gotten adjusted part-way in suggests that they are keeping a close eye on how well sales are working. I may not like the way a lot of sales are structured, but I highly doubt that Daz is just doing it because they believe it works and doesn't have enough variance in the strategies to have real evidence behind it.
Also, remember tht there will always be another sale, and if you don't absolutely need something right when it comes out it will be cheaper later. Keep track of what you have (I didn't for a l-o-n-g time -- I now have enough bedrooms and living rooms I could use a different one for every G1/G2/G3 female I've picked up)
Everything ends up at least half off for some time frame within 6 to 12 months of release.
I keep going 'man, I haven't bought much last few weeks' and then I remember March.
yeah, set for a while. ;)
Casanova
Plus the $1000 store credit you got for your smarts.
faster than you think?
This is the #1 big killer for me right now. $66 for a pro bundle sounds like an awesome deal - until I realize it will actually cost me $91 in my money. Then it becomes a wishlist item. A couple of years back, we were on par with the US dollar, plus I actually had an income - so I was buying stuff regularly, and pro bundles for new figures went straight into the cart. Now...I even second-guess on PC items. I've had to really prioritize WHAT exactly I am buying. Clothing doesn't do it for me anymore....with autofit and Wear Them All, I can reuse and kitbash the hundreds of genesis/genesis 2 items I have. Characters are the same - I'm way more interested in excellent skin and different makeups/fantasy makeups than I am morphs. Iray shaders and lights are my biggest weakness right now - I know absolutely jack about iray, so I rely on the shaders and lights that others make.
I love my hobby. It keeps me busy, it keeps me creative, and it keeps me sane. We are on very low fixed incomes right now and will be for the foreseeable future. It wasn't like this a couple of years ago, but it is now - so with art being my ONLY hobby (unless you count reading books), this is what keeps me active (if you count sitting down in front of a computer 'active'...which I do ha ha) We can't afford holidays away, or even really a night out (plus it's a small place so there really is nowhere to go for a night out). Fishing keeps my hubby sane, art keeps me sane. I don't want to give up my hobby, cos then i have..nothing.
And I'll repeat again, I in no way blame or grumble at DAZ or PA's. They are a business - and they price their products as they see fit. I have no problem with that at all. Same as I wouldn't blame or jump up and down at LG because their washing machines are expensive - even tho I need a new one and can't right now afford it. It's our problem that our incomes are so much smaller than they were a few years back - so I have to deal with that. It's got nothing to do with DAZ or their PA's.
My hobby is becoming a little too expensive for me. But I can't give it up. The same way my hubby will 'reuse' one of his many hundreds of lures when he goes off fishing instead of buying new shiny ones, I will 'reuse' my existing content.
We didn't have a lot of money when I was a kid and I was the youngest of 4 kids. I got a lot of hand-me-down toys and games. Most of them were incomplete or didn't work right. Learning how to make due with what I had available has carried over into what I buy now. How much utility can I get out of it? What pieces are there that can be used and repurposed? Something needs to give me a lot of bang for my buck for me to buy it.
No one is saying that, Will. We're saying that the entire economy is the reason that we will not be matching high prices with high outlay. It's not DAZ's fault, but because of incomes that are not rising, many of us are going to make do with what we already have.