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Ooooor... they could make another female figure that they can be confident will sell more. Perhaps not the noblest of choices but pragmatism has its virtues.
Mind you I'm all for Daz being noble, I'm still pining for a new David
I agree making a "cool" new female will sell more, despite our complaints that there are already too many of them.
I guess it really comes down to how you see/understand Original figures.
To me they're meant to be a rounded out set of nodes for other content to grow around, filling the big niches to make Studio a program you want (and thus to buy more content for.) Having only the sexy nodes filled skews your customer and content base so that it becomes even more off balance anyway.
To Daz however, Originals may simply be figures they see as looking good enough to sell a lot (especially in Genesis 3 where the characters make a lot less sense with the niche node concept.)
Don't forget that Daz Studio has a lot more users now since the introduction of Iray and Genesis 3. No way to know how such figures will sell with a larger user base unless they are released. I just wish Daz would take a closer look at some of the male figures made by some of the PAs... more extreme characters like George would be truely wonderful if they came in some sort of bundle, with their own selection of related clothing and hair and poses. There are several males made by the PAs that I like way more than the some of the official Daz figures.
But it's not just a lack of male figures that really bothers me... (other than the fact that they all seem to range in age from 25 to 35 by appearances. I mean, there are plenty of morphs packages and textures. One of my biggest gripes about the male figures is lack of diversity in the clothing that is offered, as well as the hairstyles. Not all men have a full head of hair and a perfect hairline... me included. And there's just something about the way most of the "real world" clothing in the store fits the males. I don't like the "wavy" waistline of a lot of the pants, if you know what I mean. The waistband should not follow every little dip and bump of the body... I wish there was a set of "waitband" morphs for the male figures to compress, or squeeze, the waistline the way a real world elastic waistband or belt would. And not every shirt should fit like a second skin... stuff needs to hang a little bit.
I actually don't buy teen figures at all or children either. In the rare instance I need a kid, I dial one with genesis or use a morph set. I haven't liked any of the teen figures produced by daz so far anyway. Their style looks out of place with the other characters who look more realistic, their lips in particular bug me for some reason.
I'm always looking for adult male characters though.
I've cut back drastically on female characters too. I'm strictly buying what I don't have enough of which is adult men. I'll buy a female if she's unique enough. But, it takes something like Mei-Lin to interest me.
Things this made me think:
a. You're saying you don't buy them because their style doesn't fit, which is the same issue we're saying (not "we don't buy them because male" but "we don't buy them because specific style doesn't fit to x") I think it's relatively fair to say that most casual users would expect Victoria to match well in a scene with Michael, Josie to match well with both of them, Jayden the same (or whoever.) They don't, therefore some people don't buy them.
b. I didn't buy Jayden 6, but I didn't buy Josie 6 either. It wasn't that I didn't want a teen male character; I wanted a matching pair that would go together. She looked a bit... unfortunate for some reason and then Josie 7 came out and she looked good so I decided to invest in the G3 line for teens instead (you'd think I'd have learned after investing in Genesis 2 for anime characters only to discover there was no male Aiko OR Keiko.)
c. New users tend to look at the Pro Bundles as a safe way to get all the appropriate bits they need for a type of character (unless I'm completely weird and it was only me that thought that at first.) They don't know much about morphs or what goes with what beyond the basic numbers and things. There are plenty of forum posts suggesting that longer term users still don't fully understand the various generation and morph integrations.
Basically, teen males (or anime males or whatever) will almost certainly sell less. They will sell a LOT less if they don't match the companion figures they're suggested to. But their companion females will also sell less as a result, and you're curating customers who only want more females by only offering that. A typical new customer being told "they can get around it by buying and experimenting with morph packs and textures and if they do x and adjust this..." is not going to want to invest in that sort of suggestion. They want to buy one thing and have it be the character and a selection of appropriate options in hair clothing skin for that character.
I am not sure it is correct to say that teens of either gender sell poorly. Looking at What's Hot I have noticed that when all older gen 7 pro packs are on sale Teen Josie 7 is often second only to V7.
I got Teen Josie 7 on release, so I am a bit disappointed to find out now there will be no male equivalent. I thought Teen Jayden 6 was one of the best pro packs made due to the many practical clothing he came with, plus some of the included character skins. I think it is a pack worth picking up regardless of how you feel about the base shape.
As others have said, I wonder if Daz have considered how many female sales are lost by having no male equivalents, if they did then some male packs effectively equal 2 sales.
The only way I can see to provide a one to one release of DO figure that "match" is for them to be sold together in one package, not as separate figure releases. Of course, that would require that both base models were completed at the same time for it to work.
not like it is hard to create one if needed.
One of the things I love about GenX2 is that if I want a male or female companion... I can make an effective sibling. ;)
So, inspired by this thread...
Brandon morph/skin, Older Teen preset from Growing Up, some tweaks to the nose (really don't like the Brandon nose as is), iray skin converter, omri hair with shader cribbed mostly from Antonia hair, painter's lights, clothes from Horror Survivor Marius.
Click on image for full size.
In my opinion, what Daz is doing with male teens is unjust, they told male teens aren't planned by low sales, low sales: that means they were sold but not as much as females, well, maybe I was one of those purchasers, so, are they going to let these purchasers who prefer male teen models don't have their product? it's unjust, they aren't thinking in our demands, at least they should create a small bundle for male teens, but not remove them from Generation 7 completly.
Daz Studio, this message is for you: Create male teens generation please!!! I don't like female characters (and Daz jammed us of female characters exaggeratedly), I like male teens, and it's unjust you don't provide me like I need. Don't all bussinesses say: "The costumer is always right"? Well, I'm strongly request you: CREATE MALE TEENS PLEASE!! otherwise you'll lose a costumer, because if Daz Studio doesn't give me like I need, then I won't purchase in Daz Studio anymore!!
And I thank all the users who are creating male teens for their own, but the complete responsibility is of Daz Studio, that's the reason of this message, I hope Daz retrain about male teen models.
Daz Studio generally doesn't make stuff. PAs do. Convince them.
You are asking people to do a bunch of work that they feel just don't have enough of a return to justify the effort.
If you really want them to feel differently, give one of them $5000 or something. I bet that would convince them!
Daz Studio is NOT AT ALL responsible for this situation, unless you count some sale structure and promotion and maybe 'not doing X to encourage it.'
One reason I keep bringing up kickstarter or whatever is that it can serve as risk mitigation for PAs who have to otherwise pretty much guess at what is a good idea. Low sales don't mean NECESSARILY 'people don't want more male teens,' but without magic crystals, what's a PA to do?
Your model is awesome, could you share us the model (morph) in order to we could have him too?
Interestingly a new teen male character Chase has been announced over on the PA commercial forum, I wonder if the pre announcement was a result of this thread
I can easily live without Genesis 3 male teen, as it's no problem to still use Genesis 2 male one with the Genesis 3 female teen(s) or dial a nice one using Zev's products. But the gap shouldn't be more than one generation, or I might not buy into a new generation of figures at all - as long as I don't know I'll get what I want, sooner or later.
Talking about that - what I need more URGENT by far is little kids in the 1-6 range and a NICE baby figure - Zev's tools just don't work well for these age and it probably would just need ONE new figure as male and female body shapes aren't really different in that age, they just needs few different head morphs. DAZ really should provide these even if it means an investment today, but without you might lose potential DS customers who need exactly that for illustration or story telling. Those (kids/baby) might pay back over the time, as they could easily live for at least 3 generations of figures, but please, please, please - do it (even if that is only every 5 or 6 years).
Even though making good numbers on male figures is difficult, please don't think that we've given up. We have no intention of focusing on just female figures. We simply learn from each figure we launch, and then adjust based on what we learned. Each generation there are figures that disappear, and each generation there are new figures we try.
By way of an example, although it isn't Hiro, I will tell you that Generation 7 of Aiko definitely does have a male counter part.
Also, although the point that there are more female figure releaed than males is indeed a true assessment, another way to look at the situation is that, with the fact that Daz is releasing 2 figures most months now, and most of those months include a male one, that Daz is in fact releasing more male figures than ever before.
High level, we have some really amazing looking male figures planned for the rest of this year (although I don't discount he point that osme of you ahve made of wanting us to reconsider making a Gen 7 teen. We will look into it.)
I am sooo happy the couple releases seem to be a thing now : )
What I think is needed more than a male teen are more characters of color. You can always dial in something like the young morph or the growing up morphs, but characters of color with good skin textures and the right facial features are rather hard to come by.
So I'm eagerly waiting for the native american, arabic, polynesian and indian couples : )
Mei Lin and Lee look just awesome : )
Thank you for sharing this information. Lots of things to look forward to it seems :)
Will, I think you keep missing that it IS DAZ, or more correctly the guys in the financial part of the company, that are deciding not to buy out Published Artists that make male teen or anime characters based on past Genesis revision sales. Obviously at least a few PA's see there is a market for those kind of characters and produce and sell them, but DAZ has the numbers that say it's not worth the investment to buy them because they aren't selling them fast enough to make back what they paid for them.
Excellent information. I know I'm a nag, but it'd be cool if you shared these sorts of 'looking forward ideas' from time to time (no concrete promises or expectations) maybe in the PC+ area or something. Obviously plans change and people should understand that, but like with movies, games, music, etc. it's cool seeing that something is coming or at least being thought about - gives us something to want to save for and keep checking the store for too~
I'm really happy to hear that there's an anime male coming with Aiko (although I liked Hitomi/Keiko more in 5/6) and I like the idea of a male teen: so long as they go together. It's not just about having male x type, but say "oh I'm making a scene with a girl. Now I want a boy. Sure I can morph some random thing, but I want two that were actually made to be together (or I'm new and don't know or want to go to the effort of frankensteining one together myself.)
I actually think the release rate of Genesis 3 males has been really, really good - which was why it was such a surprise when there was no teen male last month since it seemed the perfect slot for it.
Also seconding the idea of some sort of smallish packs for 1-5yrs / babies / cats and dogs - nothing too fancy, just something that isn't 20 years old in technology. Genesis can cover 5-80 in a range of sizes and genders very well in a pinch but there are no real options for the former without delving into ancient technology. I think Studio is better if it at least has some sort of basic options to appeal to any sort of customer that might come across the program.
I love matching pairs, So I'm pretty desparate for male counterparts. If nothing else, a mini bundle like Cory 6, as a sidedish to go with a female mega bundle seem to be the best recourse.
So... Based on everything I've read from DAZ_Steve so far, upcoming figures include:
Tween Julie 7
Ivan 7
Lucian 7
Aiko 7
(Anime Male) 7
Anything on Stephanie and/or a David replacement?
I'd say Stephanie is completely unnescessary (unless she's a character of color) since we got Eva, although she is the slim/tall instead of slim/short.
I would love to see David though : )
It is possible Lucian is the anime male, but I doubt based on the name that Ivan is.
One missed opportunity that Daz has done before but not repeated in a while is bundles that have a paired male and female. For Generation 5 we had http://www.daz3d.com/base-young-teens (plus a Starter and Pro bundle) and http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-michael-victoria-combo-bundle . The one for the teens benefited from the two being released together and the Mike/Vicky bundle was very "complete" in that it had the morphs and acted as a Pro bundle so it came with the Anotomical Elements. It's actually what I think the main figure bundle should be for a generation.
Thank you for replying this topic, I'm quiet now knowing Daz will reconsider to come back Gen 7 male teen, because it's very remarkable the lack of male teens in your figures. Like I proposed, at least you should create a small bundle of male teen 7 for these specific purchasers (like me) and not removing from the Gen 7 completly. I'm happy to know you have planned some male teens called Ivan and Lucian (I assumed they're male teen and not male adults).
Also I'd like to request to come back the Kids figures too, we really need kids figures for the Gen 7, please work on that. And I hope you see soon in Daz Store Jayden/Brodie 7 and more male teens and less female figures, please.
Thanks!
I agree that there should be a morphs/expression bundle that will turn up in the store, whenever a new generation figure base launches, rather than *having* to go hunting them out and buy them piecemeal. The primary morph set needs to be there for the underlying base, rather than the named chartacter. Some people may only want to pick them up one at a time, but the bundle option ought to be there.
The Young Teens launch was very much a blast from the past, resembling the Kids4 launch more than a little. But then, K4 was a shared base, as was Genesis 1. The decision seems to have been whether to split by age or split by gender. And the choice was to split by gender. There are advantages either way. But now that the gender split has been reinforced by changes in the underlying mesh, I don't know if there is a way back.
I rather suspect that the real question is whether the bends of G2 and G3 are *so* much better than G1's that the apparant rush to always develop only for the latest version is justifiable. I know that I have no problem buying Genesis 1 skins to put on kid characters. (Or gen4 skins either, when you come right down to it). But maybe not everyone feels that way. Perhaps it would make sense to push for vendors to try developing for G1 again. It's a perfectly valid figure to use.
I bounce between Genesis 1 and 2 constantly. With GenX2 to transport morphs back and forth, I find my choice of character is usually: 'Choose based on geografts. If that isn't a factor, Genesis 2, I guess.'
I'm excited about all the great males planned! My gosh, there have been some great ones already. Nice to know the year will be full of them, and my wallet will likely be empty!