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OP:
The way things work in a technical sense right now, you can have conforming clothes, or you can have dynamic clothes that drape realistically, or you can have clothes that are a reasonable price for most people. Pick two. All of us are still hoping/waiting for some real dynamics for DS that are more flexible than the Optitex system, but until that happens, no one will probably support George and other big morphs (husky or ultramuscled, either way). I love him, but he is one morph, and larger characters are harder to morph clothes around (I've done it for my Big & Beautiful/Big Boys' clothing fit helper morphs, so I'm very familiar).
I'm very willing to go into the reasons for this in more detail via PM if any aspiring artist wants to talk about workflows. Otherwise it's just rehashing an old argument where a PA says "it's not technically and commercially viable" and a bunch of people in a thread say "it is, too." Nothing would make me - or many of us - happier than to release a huge male outfit with realistic drape and movement every month, but it can't be done.
Hello SickleYield; nice to see you stick your head in to see what the thread is about. I think most would agree that trying to support a single large character like George is unreasonable, but what does seem to be the general consensus is that some feel PA's could do a better job with creating garments that look realistic.
For the autofollow, that's autofollow on the character or can I shut off an outfit's ability to autofollow?
Actually, wait. It occurs to me that if I show hidden parameters, clothing inherits the morphs of the root figure. Doi. I can play with that.
I have to agree with Timbales on the details. I used to do a lot of sewing when I still had kids at home, and I notice when these little things are missing.
But I'd also like to suggest those details be modeled in, not part of the texture. There are some incredible shaders available, for both 3Delight and Iray, but these shaders are all but unusable on clothing where all the details are in the texture. I've got a pair of jeans that loses the pockets, belt loops and rivets when shaders are applied, effectively turning them into leggings. I've another pair that has the back pockets modeled, but the front pockets are only in the texture. I have to hide the rivets when I use a shader. And I don't think I have any item with buttonholes that doesn't lose the stitching when shaders are applied.
I'm not a modeler, but I'm pretty sure those extra details take more work. Probably a lot more work. Especially if one were to model the threads of a buttonhole! However, the more of these details that are modeled in, and available as a separate zone in the surfaces editor, the more versatile the clothing item. And that holds true for both male and female clothing.
And while we're pointing out clothing products that meet expectations, I'd just like to mention the Daily Casuals MEGA Wardrobe for Genesis 3 Male(s) by outoftouch. Now if he (she?) would just do something similar for business suits, with a variety of jacket styles, neckties, (tied, loose and untied,) and trousers. I'd love to see a vairety of open jacket morphs, including a morph for the jacket behind the arm as the man has his hand in his pocket. (And a companion morph for the trousers, of course.) I'd buy such a product in a heartbeat!
Yes...and it is total insanity to try to model the buttonhole threads...sure it can be done, but probably at a polygon count that rivals the rest of the item...for 1 buttonhole! Now making a small loop to make a separate material zone for the buttonhole and doing the threads as a normal/displacement map...much more practical/doable.
Also, all the modeled in details will come with not only an increased price...but a much increased polygon count. Yeah, modern machines and all...but for Iray that will mean less items in a scene, because video cards are much more limited in memory capacity.
Yes, Show Hidden Parameters and zero. Or, before setting the morph on the figure, create a new property with the saem name (not label) as the one you want to block. Or, again before the auto-morph is generated, assign the whole mesh to a Rigidity group.
I render males in different situations:
What I mean with quality clothing was already mentioned in this thread: draping and details (seams, stitches, buttons, zips, folds...). What SY said about draping is simply alarming. To some extent folds can be added in post work but that is so tedious.
I also still see male stuff having textures covering different materials what makes the outfit hard to retexture.
Just my 2c :)
+1. Pants look painted on, and so do some shirts for the tank top straps. There's no ribbing/stitching or small cuffs at the end of the short sleeves. Normally the material is acceptable, but there's also the fake plastic look- ugh.
And although George is liked by many folks, not all of us are going to use him, or use him very often, so I'd rather see clothes for the lesser bodyweight guys as the priority.
Adding to what wa
Oh, I quite agree. I mentioned modeling buttonholes as I'd mentioned buttonholes disappearing in the previous paragraph.
I wonder if it would be feasible to do buttonholes on clothing like lips are done on figures? Still part of the texture, but a separate zone. Cutout opacity could be used to isolate the threads in the texture, and then using a shader on the body of the item wouldn't remove the buttonholes... Uh... sorry, just thinking "out loud..."
Actually making them a separate mat zone is the easiest way of making them...then a combination of normal and transparency maps would probably be the best way of making the threads.
Easy fix, get this plugin, works great!
http://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-randomizer
The general problem with almost all DAZ clothing is it is form fitting which looks very odd for something like a men's suit or underneath a women's casual blouse and lots of other types of clothing.
I wonder if I could do something like that using the geometry tool... (Though I'm not at all proficient with it. Yet.)
Depends on the layout of the item...
I get lazy and put the buttons on vertices...so the buttonholes on the other side tend to take up a 'square' of faces for them to line up correctly. So you would need to grab all 4 of those faces for each one...doable, but tedious. If I were doing it to use normal and transparency maps, I'd make it a bit easier by lining everything up so each buttonhole was on a single face. And mark them out to begin with...
Hmmm....maybe I should go ahead and do a shirt or something.
...what I find really troublesome with sleeve cuffs is they tned to distort unnaturally at the wrist when posing the hands. Again this is where I agree, it would be nice to have multiple collision detection zones. It was easier with the old Gen4 clothing to make sleeves and cuffs obey the natural force of gravity as they wouldn't "shrink wrap" to the arm or wrist.
...yeah buttons, zippers, and belt buckles being part of the texture map rather than a separate mesh are a real issue as they deform badly when posing.
Yes, please.
lol
Maybe you'll start a trend...
Collision is a problem. Tremedously useful, but you can have too much of a good thing. Like when you pose the hands near the thighs and the pant leg decides it has to swallow the thumb, or some of the fingers.
It would be nice to have clothes collide to a bone within a figure. For example, set a pair of pants to collide to the lower body and sleeves set up to collide to the arms and shoulders and the such.
Hi everyone
As a predominantly clothing support PA, I had to put my 2 cents in here. Whilst the tools we have with Studio are quite advanced, like Sickleyield said, there are limits to what can be achieved with the current technology. It is not an easy task to have to balance polycount with reallism, conforming bones and the ton of hidden morphs we need to add to each and every joint rotation in a single use, but then have the model pose realistically in multiple joint rotations (1 click pose sets). So there has to be a compromise on our part. With the strict QA procedures we go through for each product, we have to make sure the product works in not just a standard easy pose, but also some guy/girl doing gymnastics. We also have to make sure the clothing moves and looks reasonable on all shapes from Heavy and bulky to thin and gaunt. Believe me, if I could have it all I would be creating highpoly meshes. with realistic folds in the T pose, that then drape properly in whatever pose the figure is put in. However with the lack of dynamics in studio and the restrictions of conforming clothing we are forced to step back and create a product that is going to be an all-rounder. As PA's we also have to ensure our product can be used by those with super high-end machines and those on older or lower budgeted machines.
Just wanted to let you know how this works from a PA (my own experience) perspective. We also have our names on the wishlist for the above mentioned techonologies that will allow us to bring you guys better and greater products.
:)
I've done that by loading a bodysuit fitted to figure, and invisible. Collide sleeved top with bodysuit, pants with figure or vice versa.