Particle Physics for daz 4.9 ! is this a breakthrough ?
Ruphuss
Posts: 2,631
SimTenero Particle Physics for daz 4.9
who tried it already ?
Post edited by Ruphuss on
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I also was very surprised (and pleased) to see this in the store, and I am wondering how well it works. I am away from my main PC for a few weeks, so I can not play with this even if I got it, but I would love to see what others can do with it in the meantime. The water option looked particularly interesting, but I wondered how easy it would be to have even more and smaller droplets to better simulate real water. I guess that would take a lot of processing power.
Also curious how well it would work with motion blur in 3Delight still renders
Didn't see anything about fire or smoke effects so it is a no sale for me.
I have some questions about this product http://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-particle-physics-the-complete-bundle
I am seriously considering purchasing this, it looks like something I've been wishing for a long time., . But I have a few questions.
1) Can I apply my own custom textures to the particle effect .. example. if I wanted to change from water texture to a milk or fire textures, can that be done?
2) Can the particles be morphed into shapes? like snow flakes or Fire works, stars, or maybe leaves?
3) Can the particle movements be managed? .. example the effect speed, effect length or effect size, Bounce distances etc. user controlled for customized effects or its a one preset feature for each effect and no user controls?
The product description did not really answer any of these questions. Thank you for your time reading my questions,
There's a Dokumentation here: http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/30819/30819_st-particle-physics-user-guide.pdf
I just skimmed through it, but I think it answers some of your questions.
Thank you that was perfect .. Anwsered everything i wanted to know :)
I see a smoke plume emitter and smoke shader, and I imagine one could make fire with the right settings and materials.
The documents link was very helpful and I see this is something I am going to have to add to my wish list.
Yep that's what I was looking for to, Thanks a heap !!!
Is this only for animations or can they be use for still photos as well?
Curious about this too, I wonder if it is similar to particle illusion
I wondered about this as well. I don't do animations but I dabbled with them a bit in Poser a long time ago. In Poser you can setup an animation, then move along the timeline and render a single frame. I expect you could do that in Daz Studio as well, set up an "animation" where the only thing that moves is the particle emitter, then move along the timeline till you found a frame where the particles were in a state that you like. But I don't know for sure that this is possible in Studio.
Yes it's possible. Essentially that's what you are doing for an amimated drape for dynamic clothing. You can drape for animation, but you end at a still image/pose. And all that you would do is render that final frame.
I have zero idea of how to do animation and honestly, at this time, no desire to learn at all lol. If I can use it in a still frame I would buy one of them as there are several things I would like to purchase that with the discount would make it practically free. But I am not going to buy it if I can't use just for the discount. Not sure why, if it can't be used in a still piece they would offer an almost animation only new items discount.
If anyone's interested in this stuff, take a look at mCasual's stuff in the Freebies section. I believe he also has some collision/physics based stuff, but no particle simulations.
The make-or-break with this particle physics package is the amount of computational power required, as well as deformations of the particles.
Ice Dragon there is no reason your output has to be animation, but you would need to run a time line for the physics to think its way through the falling and colliding and bouncing parts.
That's a very good analogy. You can definitely use this for still renders. Just set up your scene and run the animation script from frame X (where you have your scene set up) to frame Y, then render any frame between X and Y that looks good to you. How many frames will depend on the effect you're going for.
Agreed, collision detection can be very CPU intensive. I've incorporated several different optimization routines to keep it as speedy as possible, but obviously it's going to vary a lot depending on how many objects you want to collide, how many faces each has, the number of particles, etc. I've made some recommendations in the documentation. I think collision primitives are a great way to speed up collisions. It takes some extra time to set up, but it can really be worth it in complex scenes. In my promo images, I used a combination of collision primitives and decimated LODs.
I've started up a commercial thread, but I'll also be sure to check in on this thread as well :-)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/80416/simtenero-particle-physics-commercial
Actually, mCasual DOES have some basic particle stuff (mcjJet). It uses traditional billboard flat image particles, IIRC, though.
Basically, what you would do is that you set a starting point, then go a handful of frames ahead, and set the end point. The simulation then calculates the movements of the particles for each frame, until you end up at your desired end position. You can then use either frame, or just the end frame for rendering. If you have dynamic clothes, that is basically the same process.
Though, the product page has several videos - it should be shown there how to use the product?
Also, you will need the Core in any case; the others are just add ons for the Core product.
Sonja, just to clarify for you:
You can't just have the particles magically be in place, as they have to be simulated (over multiple frames in time). And technically, animation is just a sequence of still frames. Load your scene. Add the emitters, run the particle simulation. Then move through the timeline to where you like the way it looks, and render that one frame. As long as you don't alter the other items in the scene (except in frame 0) they won't animate at all. The only thing that will be animated will be the particles, and you don't have to render all the frames. Just move the timeline to the frame you like the look of (as far as the particles go), and then do a render of the 'current frame'.
NOTE: I don't have the new particle pack yet, so I don't know if it has the option to 'pre-simulate' a number of frames (like a still-frame drape of dynamic clothing.) IF it does, you won't even have to worry about the above, as you can just do that. But I didn't see anything about it in the documentation for the particle pack.
Hello Ivy!
Some quick answers for you:
1. Yep, you can modify the particle materials a few different ways. The simplest is to change the material on the Emitter itself, then use the "Copy Emitter Material to Particles" option in the animation script. You can also select individual materials and tweak their surface settings. You can use texture maps as well, though I'd recommend avoiding it or, at least, using very small maps (to reduce memory requirements when you go to render the scene).
2. Unfortunately, no. The shapes themselves have some unique setup requirements in order to function properly in the simulation. So it is limited to the shape presets included with the engine and emitter packs.
3. Yes! :-) There are some basic options in the animation script, but if you look in the Parameters Pane for the Emitter, you'll find tons of options to tweak! It can take some experimentation to figure out which parameter does what, but I've included some explanations in the documentation to hopefully make that process easier. The Emitter Presets don't require all of that tweaking, they are ready to animate, but the options are there for anyone who really wants to dig in and come up with their own emitters
Can particle size be randomized? One of the things in the preview video on the product page that made the "smoke" look less believable to me was it disappating in similarly sized and shaped bubbles. Obviously, the shapes would require two (or more) emitters at the same place, but would having different end sizes also require multiple emitters?
I don't do animations, so for smoke I'm probably still best off using brushes in postwork, but I was thinking about it for water too.
The vendor of this product looks like spend so much time to make this. It looks amazing but i dont know what type of machine must have to run this at it's full recource... I thinking to buy it but again i dont know if i will be able to fully work with it..And the price is very cheap for what is giving but i dont have...i spend so much in other products (:
The particles can change scale over time, but unfortunately not randomly (you specify a start scale, end scale, and a time when the scale change begins). You can, however, use the same emitter to run multiple simulations with different settings. Each set of particles is stored in a "Particle Pool." When you run the simulation, you have the option of creating a new pool, or using an existing one. So, at the the very least, you won't have to load/set up multiple emitters to get this effect, you can keep reusing the same one with slightly different settings on each run.
Thank you for the kind words! My wallet took a hit during MM as well, so I can relate
. You won't need a top of the line computer to use the engine. Obviously, faster is always better :-), but I actually ran all of the simulations in the demo videos on a 3 year old AMD processor. The amount of time it takes to simulate varies a lot depending on your scene and how many objects you want the particles to collide with. But if you get some practice setting up collision primitives, you can get really good results with relatively modest hardware.
Thank you too for reply...from what planet are you people and you making such things! :) Nice one and you putting us at trouble!Ok but if you want to use some kind of particles inside an animation? and to render it to make a full movie clip( of course with frames) not whole movie clip directly...
Even with titan x still have problems to render a full iray viewport...
Hi Sim :) I'm not sure if you answered this question yet, but you mentioned that the particles do change scale over time... so does this script also accomodate deformations due to mutual particle collisions?
Also, I have some background as an electromag simulator using FEA, so this product is really piquing my interest.
Hi mtl1!
Meaning the deformation of the mesh shape, or deformation of the particle positions? The particle's don't self-collide. I tinkered with both self-collision and mesh/mesh collision, but both increased simulation time by orders of magnitude when dealing with lots of particles and/or colliders, so I decided that level of detail might be overkill for this application. Instead, the particles are single points in space and the mesh is really just a renderable representation of that location. So all collisions are point (particle) mesh (collider).
If the particles represent water or smoke, then I think it is the correct decision that they do not collide with each other, since such particles would merge with each other, not bounce off one another.
It looks absolutely awesome!
I have a question: Obviously the particles will be "plain meshes", not metaballs or similar... There's is a way to make the particles "Look like" merged metaballs, like a pool of blood under a wounded man or tears slowly running down from a char's cheecks?