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[RANT] Sick and tired of the lack of support from daz!

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  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    shadowhawk1 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

     

    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

    Straight out of the box?

    Just as they come?

    That is sooooooooo weird!  People really do that?

    (No, you are not alone in that j cade...I'm sure there are a lot more of us around.)

    Remember, the presets are more like guidelines, than laws...

    I've said it before, and will probably repeat it every thread like this...I wouldn't mind at all if everything came without ANY presets.  Just give me the raw maps and be done with it. 

    BTW...when was the last Iray shader put in the store?  The last 3Delight one?

     

     

    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

     

     

    Did I state that I think my methods superior somewere? I said that I preferred the look. And that to get the look that I preferred I tweaked stuff, the underlying argument being that if you don't like how a material is set up, then the obvious answer (at least as far as I'm concerned) is to change it.

     

    And sorry not sorry, my signature even states that I like to be facetious. I give fair warning.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,206
    Male-M3dia said:
    shadowhawk1 said:
    j cade said:
     
    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

    Straight out of the box?

    Just as they come?

    That is sooooooooo weird!  People really do that?

    (No, you are not alone in that j cade...I'm sure there are a lot more of us around.)

    Remember, the presets are more like guidelines, than laws...

    I've said it before, and will probably repeat it every thread like this...I wouldn't mind at all if everything came without ANY presets.  Just give me the raw maps and be done with it. 

    BTW...when was the last Iray shader put in the store?  The last 3Delight one?

     

     

    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

     

     

    If you're changing the lighting in the scene, the materials need to be adjusted as well, especially wnen you're not using a physically-based renderer. Also if you're including multiple materials in a product for different renderers, the settings need to be similar or they simply won't pass QA. There's no such thing as doing settings one way for one renderer and giving a totally different set of settings in another. 

    Gee MM ... I NEVER would have thought of that. 

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited April 2016
    nonesuch00 said:
    DestinysGarden said:

    OK, I don't do this often. Hard data.

    DG Iray Brocade and Satin day 1 sales 69

    DG 3Delight Brocade and Satin day 1 sales 8

    Which one are you going to do more of?

    3DL users, myself included, have had to create their own materials for years with converting Poser surfaces. 90% of the time the Iray mats will render with really good results anyway in 3Delight. Push the render button and see what happens.

    Well those are the same product aren't they?

    They are products based on different renderers. And basically separating the products out this way shows where the interest is. The result of that test that 3delight is in far less demand than Iray products.

    nonesuch00 said:
    Chuckdozer said:
    nonesuch00 said:

     

    I wasn't aware til recently that DAZ doesn't require a help user guide for PA products and was it a surprise. LOL. Really, that is not peanuts these prices being charged for new products. We spend all that money but we're support to guess on how to use the product based on what? Clicking around and adjusting sliders and other values in the DAZ UI in a colossal waste of time and when years of experienced talent already know how to do these things and should be producing the documentation for their products?

    What products are you speaking of? All the plug-in's and scripts and such that I have bought at Daz came with at least some form of documentation... 

    I'm not taking that bait again. The PAs that aren't doing their job know it. So suffice it to say I searched in my content directory for the documents, looked in the usual places, and looked at the 'Info' tab in the Content Library and am only led to an offsite advertisement for he product I'm refering too and other products that PA vendor sells.

    The more and more I buy from the DAZ Store the more and more I want to see 'DAZ Originals' on the list of artists or it be some architectural model that's quite easy to judge on face value of the ad copy. LOL, landscape & architecture those are the next things on my wish list but will have to wait.

     

    DAZ originals is already shown on products bought by DA. As far as plugins without documentation, I'm going to agree with Chuck as there is documentation to go with plugins and products, or locations were files are located in the readmes. These are accessible from DIM when you choose a product that you've installed.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • ChuckdozerChuckdozer Posts: 453
    nonesuch00 said:
    DestinysGarden said:

    OK, I don't do this often. Hard data.

    DG Iray Brocade and Satin day 1 sales 69

    DG 3Delight Brocade and Satin day 1 sales 8

    Which one are you going to do more of?

    3DL users, myself included, have had to create their own materials for years with converting Poser surfaces. 90% of the time the Iray mats will render with really good results anyway in 3Delight. Push the render button and see what happens.

    Well those are the same product aren't they?

    Chuckdozer said:
    nonesuch00 said:

     

    I wasn't aware til recently that DAZ doesn't require a help user guide for PA products and was it a surprise. LOL. Really, that is not peanuts these prices being charged for new products. We spend all that money but we're support to guess on how to use the product based on what? Clicking around and adjusting sliders and other values in the DAZ UI in a colossal waste of time and when years of experienced talent already know how to do these things and should be producing the documentation for their products?

    What products are you speaking of? All the plug-in's and scripts and such that I have bought at Daz came with at least some form of documentation... 

    I'm not taking that bait again. The PAs that aren't doing their job know it. So suffice it to say I searched in my content directory for the documents, looked in the usual places, and looked at the 'Info' tab in the Content Library and am only led to an offsite advertisement for he product I'm refering too and other products that PA vendor sells.

    The more and more I buy from the DAZ Store the more and more I want to see 'DAZ Originals' on the list of artists or it be some architectural model that's quite easy to judge on face value of the ad copy. LOL, landscape & architecture those are the next things on my wish list but will have to wait.

    No bait.. I'm not fishing for anything. Just wanted to let you know where to look for documentation. You won't find it in most of the places you mentioned. If you install from "Install Manager" you will find a little "i" icon to the right of the product name... press this info button to find product documentation. The info icon is there at the install, and it also appears alongside the products in the "Installed" category.

    Beyond that, if you're unwilling to tell me the products for which you need documentation, there's no possible way I could ever help you find it. 

  • ChuckdozerChuckdozer Posts: 453
    shadowhawk1 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

     

    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

    Straight out of the box?

    Just as they come?

    That is sooooooooo weird!  People really do that?

    (No, you are not alone in that j cade...I'm sure there are a lot more of us around.)

    Remember, the presets are more like guidelines, than laws...

    I've said it before, and will probably repeat it every thread like this...I wouldn't mind at all if everything came without ANY presets.  Just give me the raw maps and be done with it. 

    BTW...when was the last Iray shader put in the store?  The last 3Delight one?

     

     

    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

     

     

    Why so grumpy today? Even your avatar looks grumpy. I don't see the need to attack other members for their comments unless you are just trolling.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,880
    Chuckdozer said:

    As has been stated in the Hexagon forum... Hexagon is not dead. There is an update in the works. Please check the Hex forum ;)  As for Carrara, I'm fairly certain that's not dead either. You might want to check the Carrara forum. 

    When/if it actually happens, I'll be very happy. But I'm not holdong my breath while waiting. Hex is a great modeler, I actually bought Hex1 at full price from Eovia. It's one of the most intuitive modelers I've ever used, and Carrara is my favorite 3D software, It's been several months since DAZ said they were working on Genesis 3 integration in Carrara, without any updates on progress I've kind of lost hope. Carrara is still a good all round software, the Octane plugin for it is simply awesome, and it looks like there will be a good viable cloth plugin for it, Carrara does have a good bit of life left under the hood even without an update, But there is only so much plugin developers can do to keep Carrara alive without the help/interest of DAZ. Hex is pretty stable for me, but for some recent large mesh projects I've been doing, being only 32 bit makes it completely unusable.

    I do hope they are updated, but until that day, I'll be moving forward with software that provides the functionality I need, with a hope of getting additional funtionality I want in the future (I will still use Carrara and Hex, but I'll be learning others at the same time). Of course DS is one of the applications I am using more, but it's tool set is pretty limited in comparison.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,206
    Chuckdozer said:
    shadowhawk1 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

     

    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

    Straight out of the box?

    Just as they come?

    That is sooooooooo weird!  People really do that?

    (No, you are not alone in that j cade...I'm sure there are a lot more of us around.)

    Remember, the presets are more like guidelines, than laws...

    I've said it before, and will probably repeat it every thread like this...I wouldn't mind at all if everything came without ANY presets.  Just give me the raw maps and be done with it. 

    BTW...when was the last Iray shader put in the store?  The last 3Delight one?

     

     

    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

     

     

    Why so grumpy today? Even your avatar looks grumpy. I don't see the need to attack other members for their comments unless you are just trolling.

    Grumpy? No.  Iritated is more like it. You have to realize that smart comments are not always interpreted the way you intend them. 

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited April 2016
    shadowhawk1 said:
    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

    Wow, I'm an elitist...just because I think it's better to actually learn how to use the given tools than rely on what someone else thinks is the right way something should be done.

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • ChuckdozerChuckdozer Posts: 453
    shadowhawk1 said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    shadowhawk1 said:
    j cade said:
     
    mjc1016 said:
    j cade said:

    Frankly I'm just wierded out that people use provided materials without tweaking regularly, is that normal?

     

    Even back in the days when I used 3delight I dont think I ever used the provided materials vanilla, for instance, I preferred the look of ubersurface2 for skin (it handles sss really well, and predated the aoa one by quite a while) do you know how many skins came with ubersurface2 presets? 0. So I made myself a bunch (I do that for Iray too BTW)

    Straight out of the box?

    Just as they come?

    That is sooooooooo weird!  People really do that?

    (No, you are not alone in that j cade...I'm sure there are a lot more of us around.)

    Remember, the presets are more like guidelines, than laws...

    I've said it before, and will probably repeat it every thread like this...I wouldn't mind at all if everything came without ANY presets.  Just give me the raw maps and be done with it. 

    BTW...when was the last Iray shader put in the store?  The last 3Delight one?

     

     

    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

     

     

    If you're changing the lighting in the scene, the materials need to be adjusted as well, especially wnen you're not using a physically-based renderer. Also if you're including multiple materials in a product for different renderers, the settings need to be similar or they simply won't pass QA. There's no such thing as doing settings one way for one renderer and giving a totally different set of settings in another. 

    Gee MM ... I NEVER would have thought of that. 

    Seems to be a lot of folks offering honest opinions, sound feedback... and just plain trying to be as nice as they can. It's getting a bit tough though... seems to be a bit too much sarcasm, condescention, rudeness, and just plain bullying by the OP. Somebody needs a cookie.

    I'm outta here.... I'm sure the mods will be along to clean up this mess in a bit....

    Chuck ;)

     

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,206
    mjc1016 said:
    shadowhawk1 said:
    Just out of curiosity ... what is the issue of using something straight out of the box? Does it offend your flipping elitest attitude? What is wrong with someone doing art thier way here? Everyone seems to think that people HAVE to conform to the way they do it. And BEFORE you say I am out of line ion that, take a look at your comments! Joking or not the comments are unwarrented. 

    Wow, I'm an elitist...just because I think it's better to actually learn how to use the given tools than rely on what someone else thinks is the right way something should be done.

    Well that is how I perceived your previous comment, whether you are or not depends a lot on your actions and comments. 

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,388
    edited April 2016

    What I love about this great quip, Stonemason, is that it perfectly explains why I don't use Iray.  But instead of saying my last Bryce render still hasn't finished, I get to say my first Iray render still hasn't finished.  surprise

     

    LeatherGryphon said:
    Stonemason said:

    I haven't used Bryce since 2003,last I checked the render still hadn't finished cheeky 

    Peter Fulford said:

    I don't think Stonemason ever released any of his products with Bryce support; it was just ruthlessly tossed to the side in favour of what most of his customers wanted (and what he could be arsed to do). I had to set up materials myself, the horror. I need a safe space. But the only ones out there are all for Iray... 

     

    ROFL!!!!!!

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,206
    edited April 2016

    Moderators, 

    Between my growing iritation from smart comments and this becoming more of an Iray/3DLite argument, I am asking that the thread be closed and locked. It is obvious that any answers I am looking for are not going to be found here. 

     

    Edited to correct an error

    Post edited by shadowhawk1 on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,388

    Sorry, Shadowhawk1.  Didn't intend to kill your thread.  Don't know the answers to your questions, but do know how long Bryce and Iray take to render.  It came up.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,206
    diomede said:

    Sorry, Shadowhawk1.  Didn't intend to kill your thread.  Don't know the answers to your questions, but do know how long Bryce and Iray take to render.  It came up.

    You didn't kill it, so please don't feel that way. I only have myself to blame for this. I expected answers that I should have known I wouldn't get. As I customer I guess I expect to much and I get frustrated and everyonce in a while take off on a trek to slay dragons or in this case a windmill. I have enough issues with the moderators as it is and I am just trying to prevent further headslamming into the proverbial brick wall. 

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    Peter Fulford said:

    I don't think Stonemason ever released any of his products with Bryce support; it was just ruthlessly tossed to the side in favour of what most of his customers wanted (and what he could be arsed to do). I had to set up materials myself, the horror. I need a safe space. But the only ones out there are all for Iray... 

    I'm confused here too. I've been doing tons of stuff in 3DL the past week or so using Iray-intended Genesis 3 products. I don't even bother using the supplied 3DL shaders and just make my own. All you need are the textures, which any shader puts relatively in place. The rest is all adjustable sliders and experimentation.

     

    Also I haven't been getting forum notifications for the past 24 hours. I'm a bit sick of the forums breaking.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    shadowhawk1 said:

    I expected answers that I should have known I wouldn't get.

    Especially at the weekend.

     

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,581
    Rashad Carter said:
    Chuckdozer said:
    fred9803 said:

    I suspected the stats would be something like those, which sort of explains why Iray is the prefered shader by vendors. The same reason that nothing has been made for the Mellinium Baby for about 8 years. Market forces.

    Are you sure it isn't just because it's an ugly baby :D ?

    Oh, God, my stomach!!!!

    Not for nothing, but people do tend to make unconscious decisions about what they will and will not purchase and it is often not until they take the time to consider the issue consciously that they derive the reasons for their actions. Today I realized that I had passed on the baby because as stated, it is kinda ugly. I wasnt aware of this consciously, but unconsciously I was thinking exactly the same thing.

    Whilst I am not disagreeing that the out of the box Mill Baby is pretty ugly, if you are a PC+ member, it only costs $2 to make the baby look so what cuter:

    http://www.daz3d.com/lily-for-millennium-baby-3-0

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,258

    .

    Chuckdozer said:
    fred9803 said:

    I suspected the stats would be something like those, which sort of explains why Iray is the prefered shader by vendors. The same reason that nothing has been made for the Mellinium Baby for about 8 years. Market forces.

    Are you sure it isn't just because it's an ugly baby :D ?

    Well people are screaming for "realistic" figures, but when they get one they don't want it? cheeky

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited April 2016
    shadowhawk1 said:
    diomede said:

    Sorry, Shadowhawk1.  Didn't intend to kill your thread.  Don't know the answers to your questions, but do know how long Bryce and Iray take to render.  It came up.

    You didn't kill it, so please don't feel that way. I only have myself to blame for this. I expected answers that I should have known I wouldn't get. As I customer I guess I expect to much and I get frustrated and everyonce in a while take off on a trek to slay dragons or in this case a windmill. I have enough issues with the moderators as it is and I am just trying to prevent further headslamming into the proverbial brick wall. 

    Actually you got an answer to your question from several PAs why things are the way they are. Your frustration comes from the fact that they simply aren't going to take on the extra burden you want them to if it isn't warranted or if simply don't want to. The only way you feel people understand where you are coming from really doesn't mean that people will agree to do it, if I'm being honest. You have to understand where PAs are coming from as well.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,063

    We have locked this thread as it appears to be going in circles, or even to be spiralling into personal attacks.

This discussion has been closed.