So frustrated with Daz.
BradCarsten
Posts: 856
So I was a platinum club member, and according to my account, I had until the 8th to cancel. Out of the blue they renewed my subscription on the 1st at $70. I contacted them to explain that I am currently not employed and really cannot afford to pay for it, and that our currency has since collapsed against the Dollar, making it very expensive. I also explained that I never intended to renew my subscription. (Quite frankly I didn't even realise it would auto renew. I signed up a year ago for this thing. I thought it just expires and that's it.) The help desk them tells me, sorry that is our policy and there is nothing we can do about it.
Now I understand that they have policies, to stop people from taking advantage. If they allow people to cancel anytime they wanted, people could purchase a years subscription at the cheaper rate, take advantage of a discount, and then cancel. Daz would also have to try and sort through purchases, and try to unravel discounts etc, which is just not worth it to them. From what I know of dealing with this company, they are usually quite fair, Steve and Jack etc seem like genuinely good people, and so I'm sure the policy isn't there to try and catch people out on a technicality, and then laugh all the way to the bank when they manage to squeeze another $70 out of the odd, unsuspecting shmuck like me.
If someone doesn't intend to pay for something, you know it and they know it, and yet they still knowingly take that money, on a technicality, then that doesn't seem very honest, and at best is terrible for their customer relations.
Couldn't they send out an email warning people that their account will be debited and that they have x number of days to cancel? $70 is a lot of money for some people. Not to mention that they debited me 8 days before they said they would.
What upsets me the most is that I've been so loyal to this company. Everything is available on torrent sites, but I've saved up, doing odd jobs and bought every item I own. I haven't cheated them out of a cent, and don't intend to, because I don't think it's right to just take from people.
So I don't know what to do. I'm going to lodge a complaint with Paypal and see if I can get a refund there, and then with my card company, and see if I can get them to reverse it, but I really shouldn't have to go through this. I just ask Daz to reconsider their policy- to 1) warn people before renewing a subscription, and 2) realise that people sign up for a year at a time, and may not remember, a year later that they will be automatically debited, so I ask that they be a little more flexible when it comes to urgent cancelations. I'm sure they're not so hard up for cash that they need to get it on a technicality.
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Comments
An email reminder that your subscription is about to renew 2 weeks in advance would be ideal. Hopefully they could add that to the to do list.
bradrg, if you are using Paypal, make sure you cancel the Autorenew on the Paypal side as well. As long as you haven't cancelled the Paypal side of things, the automatic payment will happen every year, again and again, no matter if you have set "no auto renewal" in the PC settings.
Also, if you really want to blow off steam, write a letter to the CEO of DAZ3D. The folks at Customer Support are just the lowest link in the chain, and they really can do nothing about it. It's the level at the top that makes such decisions, it's them who need to officiate changes to the policy.
I've now done that. Thanks for the heads up.
I actually received not one, but two reminder e-mails before my subscription was about to expire. The text wasn't too clear about the auto-renewal (in fact, it did not even mention it, as far as I remember), but it was a good reminder, that something is about to happen.
I didn't get a thing- not a whisper out of them. As I said, I didn't even realise that this was a subscription.
I've been working on content for the last couple of months to try and sell at the store, which is hopefully going to be ready this month. Now when you become a vendor, you are automatically signed into the club, so this is just a complete waste of money. Months of work and all the money I may earn on the product is just going to go towards paying off a useless item now.
Anyway I've logged a dispute through Paypal, so hopefully I can get it resolved.
I've googled a bit, and found this: http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/11/ask-lh-can-i-get-a-refund-for-an-auto-renewing-service/
The gist is that you don't have much of a chance to get your money back, and that they are not obliged to do so.
I agree that "Customer friendly" this is not, but again, the only person who will be able to do something about it will be the higher levels, who can authorize a refund for you.
Also, I checked the PC conditions, and it clearly states about the advanced booking there, so I doubt that Paypal will give you a refund. That's 5 workdays, not calendar days, btw.: http://www.daz3d.com/platinum-club-annual
Thanks for the research and link. that says up to 5 days, mine was 6 days early, (excluding weekends) I'm grasping at straws, but hopefully I have a claim there because of that. It's not nice that I have to try and find a work around.
It was an misunderstanding/oversight on my side, I realise that, but Daz is a great company and I'm sure I can sort something out with them, even if I can get the subscription converted to store credits. As I said, days from submitting a design and hopefully becoming a vendor- it's just such a waste of money.
Can I just say that lodging a complaint with PayPal is not a good way to deal with things, Did you contact Daz 3D Customer Support first?
As you have been told, you should always check PayPal for recurring charges, and remove them if you don't want to continue with a subscription.
I even remove the auto update subscription thing for my AV, and let them contact me each year for a renewal payment.
Yes I contacted Daz support first and explained my situation and asked them to refund the amount, and this was the response:
They then explained how to cancel my subscription in the future, which doesn't help me now. I don't want to cancel now which will just be throwing an already wasted $70 down the drain.
Lodging a complaint through paypal was my second course of action. Daz still has the option to decline, (Paypal wont get involved just yet) but I need to do that in order to elevate it later if I have to. If I'm not successful with that then I will contact my Credit card company, but I really, really don't want to take it that far.
Please try contacting Daz CS again, and explain the situation, they are normally very helpful
I'm seriously considering cancelling my subscription, due for renewal in just over a week, not just for the more obvious financial reasons but because the working out of the complicated offers, calculating the costs and figuring out the best deals necessary when trying to shop here is starting to take up large chunks of time that I'll never be able to buy back at any price. I didn't realise they could take the money up to five days ahead of time, so that's worth knowing. Thanks.
Thanks, I will try that again. I agree, I have had nothing but good experiences with these people up until now, so I'm assuming this is just someone in customer support following protocol, but maybe I can get them to elevate it to a supervisor or something.
Yes, definitely go into Paypal and cancel the subscription asap in the meantime. Then according to that info that BeeMKay posted, if you cancel your subscription on your account, the benefits wont lapse until your time expires. (I didn't realize that.)
Surely there is no connection between being a member of the PC and the Sales?
Up to a point, no, but I do feel obliged to get the best for my money and apply my coupons to the best deals each month. Without the coupons, there's no need to feel obligated to shop here every month at all, which frees up a considerable amount of time when you're one of the few people on the planet so bad at maths that you can add two figures together and come up with something less than either of them!
I just noticed last night that my subscription was also auto-renewed. There was no notification and I purposely don't keep a credit card on file so I find that a little disturbing. I was going to renew this year, but I'm very concerned about the lack of warning especially about something that can't be cancelled once charged. My memory doesn't extend for a year into the future anymore (as if it ever did) - so jumping in and cancelling a week ahead of time is a little difficult.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Well, I cancelled my subscription a long time ago, but I keep buying the membership whenever a sale comes up, and pay it by gift card I previously purchased.
As for the benefits... outside of whatever other sales there are, the plain 30% off of DAZ Originals and the PC items themselves, plus the coupons work for me. I usually do the English-German translation of the sales for the German language thread, so I found out that there are usually six or seven sales pattern that happen over and over again. Once you know that, and know the sales phrases (and given that the sale isn't glitched!), it's a lot less time consuming, plus you get a pretty good grip on the mechanics. Fortunately, most sales are pretty straight forward (like the 60% Shop flash sales), and even the current March Madness is, all in all, not overly complicated (Basically, take any two items from that sale and get 50% discount off them). Other sales, however, have me screaming and frustrated. Also, the sales wordings are almost impossible to understand if you don't speak English well. If you try to attract a customer base beyond the English speaking countries (or reach the non/little-English speaking customer base in the USA), it's possibly not the best business tactics.
I've resubmitted a query (Asking for it to be elevated to a supervisor), and offered to pay any PayPal transaction fees to reverse the payment, so hopefully this will be resolved.
I'm the same. As an artist that part of my brain just doesn't function properly lol. If this is happening to us, then it must be happening to other people as well, so hopefully they will consider sending out a notification first in the future. That would solve everything, and would avoid unnecessarily straining any business relationships.
Thanks
Thanks for the heads up. I signed up for Platinum Club and forgot about it. Having cash suddenly disappear from your account can really wreck havoc on a lot of stuff if you haven't prepared for it, and I need to check to seen when I'm up for renewal.
also, check the recurring checkbox isn't checked.
Note, in respect to credit cards, that when you use them for a subscription you set up an authorisation that can be used for subsequent payments of that subscription. it doesn't store the card details, and can't be used for anything else. Unlike the PayPal system if you want to cancel a PC sub paid with a cerdit card you need to do so only at the Daz end.
Lol, I'm a native english speaker and I'm only in the forums right now because I'm trying to understand what the "EXTRA" means in the "EXTRA 50% OFF" Related Madness Items section today, because the Cart is just showing a flat 50% discount, which isn't a "Madness" deal at all. In fact it's a pretty standard sale offer for Daz.
Also agree with Astracadia that these weird sales combinations are really becoming too time consuming. This month I just started randomly loading the cart to see what the "actual" sales effects were, beause I've been caught out too many times with confusing sales wording seeming to promise things that aren't reflected in the Cart. Saves a ton of time, as it's no point trawling through a sales category if the discounts are being misrepresented at the exit point. Was just checking in today over this odd use of the word "Extra", because it's the most egregious example of this problem I've seen so far.
I got screwed over by this as well. DAZ was not helpful at all. The thing is I had already subscribed for a couple years ahead. I even offered to buy a subscription again in the future once the exchange rate was better. No go. After much complaining, they did offer to give me a refund, but only for one year and they would also cancel two years of PC+ membership that had yet to begin which I had already paid for with no refund for those years. Nice, eh?
If the payment was taken 6, then you are entitled to contact PayPal for the refund; and they don't say working days, only days.
Stuff like this is the main reason I cancelled my PC membership back when the rules and definitions thereof changed a few years back. I liked the old PC club and the monthly plan... it was more money but if I needed to quit because I was low on cash, I'd only be out a few bucks if I forgot. Being charged $70 because I forgot or no reminder was sent... Eh, no thanks... And difficulties dues to alternate interpretation of time are not acceptable to me, even if it's just a flaw in a random algorithm... I don't care and I hate filing support tickets like random messages in a bottle cast into an angry sea on a dark night as well as dealing with anyone's customer service, no matter how nice and helpful they are, because no matter how great they are, for some reason the day I have a problem is the day the great folks are all at home sick with plague or something and only the really ineffective apathetic guy is on call.
Good luck bradrg, I hope you get a refund and your employment situation improves and if you do become a vendor, I hope it works out well for you.
You can still do the monthly plan, after the initial 3 month minimum.
My complaint about the modern DAZ is the feeling that I have to be like a trained dog in the circus jumping through hoops to get a meal. Or a hamster in a maze trying to escape. And of course it's my fault for getting captured by DAZ. I could smell the goodies in the tent but didn't notice the trigger to the trap.
I had the same issue last year. While Daz CS had always been helpful before, with the autorenewal activating days earlier than the PC info stated it would, they were not helpful at all, indeed the opposite. I even sent Daz CS screenshots of their own club info showing that my account should not have autorenewed so early.
I ended up reporting the issue to PayPal. Daz was claiming I had used the membership, which I had cancelled BEFORE it was even supposed to auto-renew and had not used it again. (But I forgot the PayPal authorization part, which allowed them to charge me.) I hadn't even used the last bit of my current membership just to be on the safe side. It was more than frustrating and really soured me on Daz for a while.
Daz finally gave me a refund due to the PayPal case, but in the process almost lost my business forever because I was so upset about their unhelpful and condescending attitude over it. However, a year later, I rejoined the PC, but I'ved used a credit card and set it not to auto-renew. Hopefully that will help, but I will definitely be more careful.
And all that said, it was the ONLY time that I've found Daz CS unhelpful and unkind (and seemingly unethical and dishonest, which was the part that REALLY got me at the time). I'm sure they get tired of dealing with it, but they need to seriously not auto-renew early AND they need to email folks a warning and give them the option to opt-out. It's not that hard and would definitely generate goodwill rather than bad feelings.
It was so unlike all my other experiences with Daz that I was just left shaking my head. (And wondering how the thousands and thousands I have spent were so easily dismissed against a stupid membership fee of less than $40.) And it is only all the other good Daz CS experiences that is why I signed up again. If that had been my only Daz CS experience, I doubt that I would have re-subscribed to the PC.
Here's another tidbit. I recently received a new card which added some microchip and changed the expiration date and 3-digit code. I promptly deleted the old card entirely and entered a "new" card using the updated info. It has worked fine in the store, but when it came time for renewal, SNAFU. The explanation I got was that it is a known glitch that PC renewals pick up the old information, not the new. The only way would be to cancel the old membership and buy a new one. No, thank you. I had a monthly debit and I'm not paying a new membership fee. End result: I'm no longer a PC member. I don't use DS 4.9 or any of the G3whatevers, so seldom used both discounts, sometimes I didn't use any. It's good though. That money is now available to be used elsewhere.
Keep this in mind if you get a new credit/debit card. According to the DAZ telephone answering service, this has been happening quite a bit lately.
Mods: This is not an accusation, conjecture, or opinion. It is fact.
Fact is NO service that I have a recurring renewal for informs me of upcoming end of service. If it's something I think I might not continue, that I simply have to mark on a calendar or leave a note that on ____ date auto-renewal will take place and that I probably need to call and cancel sometime before that. Daz in this instance doesn 't appear to operate any differently than anyone else other than the fact that the money may come out of your acct. a few days before the actual expiration date, but even then, it's specified in the contract so you are aware of it up front.
I don't understand why it's so hard for people to read what's written right up front on the "Platinum Club Plus" page?
"Once you have purchased a membership, you can set up a monthly payment plan for your subscription. This can be done from the Platinum Club section of the My Account page. From this page you can update your payment information, subscription type, and even make payments. Monthly subscriptions are currently unavailable via PayPal."
"There are no refunds on Platinum Club Subscriptions. You may cancel your membership at any time. If you do not wish to auto-renew you will need to cancel your Membership beforehand. PayPal users must cancel at PayPal as well. If you cancel your membership you will remain in Platinum Club until your membership expiration date."
Sorry guys, but it's right there on the page. Always read before you sign... that's how it works in my neck of the woods.