Ansiko's Newsstand
Jason Galterio
Posts: 2,562
Question, probably for the PA before I go the route of opening a ticket...
The box in the front far right side of the newstand is not zeroed to the ground, and is hovering a bit above it. I tried to move it down, but then that left the books ontop of them out of place. I can't move those down, because they are connected to the other magazines (which moves all of the magazines down). Is this something that can be fixed in an update?
I can't post an example right now, but can this evening if needed.
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As a last resort you could find or make something like a board or piece of thin wood that the box is sitting on, or scale it up till the gap is resolved.
Did you look and see if the objects were all parented together or are they all designed as one separate object? I don't have the set. If it is simply a parenting issue, unparent the items you want to move and see if that works. If they are all one object together, I think you could possibly go into the geometry editor and split them up, but totally not sure about that as I haven't as I have not played with that yet. Hopefully, someone a little smarter than me can give you a definitive answer. Good luck!
Thank you for the suggestions, but I think I am just going to return it. This is the second item in a week that I found issues with, admittedly minor issues, but irritating enough to make me not want to bother.
Jason- can you check and see if they can be ungrouped so the rest of us will know?
I did. They can't. At least not without mesh modification.
If the box below is it's own prop, select it, move it down until it touches the ground, and then increase the y-scale to 101% or 102% until its supporting the books above. might be worth a try.
No, that's not possible either. The items are grouped in such a way, that individual modification isn't possible. See the attached screenshot that shows my Scene tab with just the Newstand added.
I apologize if I sound a bit hostile and frustrated. This is the second PA productl in the past week that I found to be less than desirable. The Newstand is taking the brunt of my negativity because of that.
The other product (which will remain nameless) had glaring neglect of details; door handles missing on the doors, the mesh being warped so that the textures were all warped, odd light coming from materials, etc.
I am just glad I found my displeasure before the 30 day period was up (and that these weren't under a "no returns sale" policy).
I just loaded up the newsstand and I don't see the problem. It's an optical illusion if you just look head on. If you look head on it looks like the right front box is higher, it also looks like what's just behind the thing to the left of it is higher. But if you rotate even slightly you'll see some parts stick out more than others giving the impression that what is behind is up a bit from the ground.
The left box is inside the sidewalk. Wouldn't be a big deal, except that the box has words on it that get cut off by the ground and brings attention to the intersect.
If you hide the sidewalk, and try to use the Newstand with another ground plane, then the right box hovers about an inch over the ground.
I can understand your frustration. It does look like Ansiko was trying to duplicate the old photograph that is included with the Promos, and in the photo is does look like there is something propping up that particular box on the right side. There is obviously a lot of work put into this, and I've wishlisted it and will probably pick it up.
I'm significantly more curious about the other product (which you have not named) though it sound significantly more deserving of exposure.
I agree, it is a very faithful representation / reproduction. And I don't doubt that a lot of work went into it.
However the way the models are grouped just makes it impossible to modify. Which means that, at best, I would get one use out of it. So I just can't justify it.
Jason, if you have problems with a product that significantly, I hope you file a bug report when you return it. And I'd love for you to post what you encountered in my Art Studio product review thread, because sometimes it's user error and we double check things for each other. (Not implying what you found is your error.) We, as buyers too, appreciate knowing what other buyers are finding. For instance, RGcincy and I double checked that a product loaded with something different than the main part. Nice to have backup. If you don't feel like posting, can you PM me with the product so I can test it if I have it, or ask one of the artists who help review the products on my thread? We'll test and post the results. If you don't want to, I understand that too.
I just loaded iut up and you are wrong. The Newsstand Street Floor is not cutting the text you refer to off (the J.G. Dills Tobacco). The problem is with the actual texure map. That's pretty obvious even in the preview. That's assuming the cutoff is not intentional (i.e. representing a misprinted label).
By the way, is it just a concidence that your intials are J.G. and the Tobacco label starts out with J.G.??? ;)
Same here. It seeems a bit hypocritical to point out a texture issue that will likely be fixed if there is a bug report but then refuse to mention the product that is apparently so much worse off that one has to wonder if it will be fixed (and if so, how long it will take). There's no moral high ground to keeping the worse offender a secret while calling Ansiko out for something that can be "fixed" by using PhotoShop, GIMP, etc.
I've attached two images for comparison. Admittedly, the box is just barely in the ground plane, but hear me out.
Above is the image with the built in ground plane visible.
Above is the image with the built in ground plane invisible and set on the scene where I was planning to use it.
The cut off to the first box is admittedly minor, but you can see it if you switch between the two images quickly. It was just obvious to my eye due to the box edge in the texture (which gives it a nice discoloration where it would be in contact with the ground).
For me the sequence of events went like this:
1. Set up the Newstand with light and camera angles. Group these together.
2. Load in Urban Sprawl 2. Move the group around, while looking through the Newstand Camera angle, to find a position that worked. (No modern buildings in view, background passable as "period" when Depth of Field was used.)
3. Rework the lighting to the bigger scene.
4. Test renders.
5. At this point I started working with the height of the Newstand group so I could get it at the level I wanted. This was when I started to notice problems.
The first problem was that the bottom of the Newstand walls has this wonderful discoloration that is hidden by the built in ground plane. In fact, with the built in ground plane the walls cut into the ground kind of abruptly, giving away that it is intersecting. Unfortunately showing the discoloration means everything is floating a few inches above the ground.
So then I attempted to fix this. Move the boxes down first, then trying to move the magazine stacks that are resting on them. But then all the other magazines moved down too. Then I noticed that the boxes were the same height at the top, but not at the bottom. Further frustrating the issues I was having.
All told I spent two hours minimum working on the scene before I came to the conclusion that it was going to be unworkable. My frustration stems out of that mostly, having spent that time to find that I wasn't going to be able to accomplish the vision I had in mind.
I posted here because at first I thought it would be a minor issue that the PA could change in an update. Post posting, I took a closer, critical eye at my observations (due to feedback and ideas provided here) and realized that this would probably be a more extensive change, and most likely impossible. That then led me to the final question of: if the model isn't changed, how likely is it that I will I use it in more than one image? The answer was pretty unlikely, since I can't modify it much.
With the other model, which remained unnamed, I noticed the problems right at load. So I didn't invest a bunch of time trying to use it. I experimented a bit, but probably less than ten minutes.
I was choosing not to name it because I already received my refund and it seemed a bit soiteful to call it out when I have nothing invested now. But for anyone else's benefit, it was the NYC Storefront that came out last week. The main issues I had there were a general twisting / distorting of the mesh (which caused the brick textures to have a noticable vertical incline) and a bunch of details that I didn't like (window sills intersecting with awnings, door handles missing, the horizontal scale seeming off).
My intention wasn't to call anyone out on it, that has a negative connotation that I am trying to avoid. As I was actually looking for a fix to the Newstand issues when I first posted, since I wanted it to work. In the end, it just won't work for me, but I am sure others will be perfectly fine with it. I don't want to sound like I am disparaging Ansiko's work (since it is obvious that there was a lot of work involved) or other people's "eyes" so to speak. It is just a personal preference that the model won't work for what I had in mind.
The JG initials are just a coincidence, but then I don't know all the historical implications of the model to be honest.
For the sake of disclosure, you are correct, I did mis-speak when I said the words were cut off on the box. I was writing from memory and remembered seeing that there was a cut off. In my memory I thought the very bottom of the words were cut off, which gave away that there was intersecting going on. The true intersection is a little less pronounced. I admit that this is a bit of a pet peev of mine; I hate anything that breaks the illusion and gives away that the final render is a render. Intersects like that jump out at my eye and bug me. Particularly when I notice them in my own pictures after I have already almost completed.
(Novica, I am not ignoring your post. It's just too late at night now for me to comment. :) )
Thanks for the longer explantion!! The New York City Storeefront looked a bit too much like it was meant for low-polygon work so I skipped it. What you say confirms that.
I see what you mean about the Newsstand. It feels like the Newsstand Street Floor was added at the last minute. I wonder if Ansiko was hard up to meet a deadline. FWIW, I opened a bug report on it.
Wow. I apologize for my seemingly drunken ramblings. I wrote that in the murky space between being awake too long and fighting the urge to go to sleep.
I was just playing with it some more, and it's clear the intent is that the shack is on some gravel that is lower than the Newsstand Street Floor. The discoloration is visible from the sides and the back. In a thread about technical issues, calling it a "problem" is a bit misleading. It's a design decision that makes the product less versatile. It's a frustrating one though. If the newspapers ont he crates/stool were part of those props then it would be easy to lower them, but they are tied to the newspapers on the shack itself (the vertical ones). I updated my ticket with that information, but since it's not a technical issue, I'm less optimistic about it being fixed.
One thing you can do is load the set twice to get two copies of the Newsstand Newspapers object, and then use the Geometry Editor Tool to remove the horizontal newspapers in one of the objects and then remove the vertical ones in the other object. Then you will be able to raise/lower them.
I just started on it and it doesn't look too hard to do once you figure out how to use the Geometry Editor Tool. Select it, then bring up the Tool Settings for it. You can then paint on what you want to remove from the scene. Use Ctrl+Left Mouse button to add to the existiing slction and Alt+Left Mouse button to remove from the existing selection. Hide everything else in the scene to make it easier to see if you missed anything. And try bumping up the Selection Radius (I'm using 50 to get lots of stuff and then 15 when I'm close to the stuff I want to leave in the scene). Once you have a bunch of stuff selected, in the Tool Settiings, the first item in the list of Group Names is "Face Group". Seelct it, then right-click on it and select "Create new Group from Selected" and give it a name. Close the eye to hide them, then click on Selection (in the same "Group Name" list) to get rid of the red showing what is in that face group. Then look around for what you missed and paint those like before, then select and right-click on the face group you created earlier, and add "Assign Selected Faces to Group". Then you may have to toggle the eye on/off to hide the new ones. Repeate till you have hidden everything. It's not as bad as it sounds, and there may even be a better/easier way to do it (I'm far from an expert on it). But you should be able to separate the verticale and horizontal newspapers this way.
Edit: You may have to create two different fave groups and toggle them on the two diferent objects since they seem to share the face group settings.
Edit2: Okay, they share those settigns. It looks like you have to go in and redo the eye in one or the other after movign them around, etc. But Iray will render correctly. Also, there are a couple maga zones that are leaning on the horizontal newspapers, so they need to be in the horizontal face group. It is doable though.
Edit3: The mags sitting on the horizontal newspapers are part of the Newsstand Body, so a duplicate of it is needed as well, with some more Geometry Editing. Luckily you can negate a selction, so just paint the magazines and then + the Default group and - (minus) the Magazine face group to select everything else.
Anyway, defintely annoying, but also doable in a an hour or two.
I appreciate the effort, but personally I gave up and moved along.
I was enamored with the product because of it's period look. And I was impressed with the overall faithfulness to the representation.
However I came to the same conclusion that you did. The changes I would need would be too massive to expect to occur. So I decided my best path forward is to return it.
My questions originally began as a request for help... Then sort of devolved into a list of problems from various attempts to resolve the issues I was having.
The only real voice I have is my wallet, so I have to exercise it.
For what it's worth, the original idea I had was inspired by the Watchmen. The teenage boy sitting next to the newstand, reading comics...
I think this is an important observation. A design decision is just that, a choice made by the artist. It doesn't make the set wrong, or not worthy, it just means the set might not be as versatile or as easy to use.
If those magazines had been grouped with the crate, there would have been no issue. If the ground floor had been modelled to accompdate the higher crate, there would have been no issue. If the magazines were their own prop, there would have been no issue. There's a dozen different ways to create a model. and each one is a decision. How many polygons is enough to show detail, what size of texture, will I add detail with a displacement map or additional polygons, how will the individual components be group. will they be grouped at all? Will I texture multiple items by using the same UVs. Which program will it be compatible in. How much time can I honestly spend on making this.
Decisions and choices. As is your choice to return it.
I would have liked to have seen that image. I bet it would have been cool. I always liked your image of the guy with the broom in the bar.
Thanks. My abandoned ideas out weight my completed ideas by at least 1,000:1... The idea I had in mind had the kid and the old man at the newstand. With Stonemason's Urban Sprawl in the background to give it atmosphere... But also in the background would have been a number of the recently released tentacles, to give it a Lovecraftian appearance... That while this kid was reading an old pulp, the events would be going on right behind him.
But ah well, such is life.
Is there a way to save off just the Geometry Editor Tool Face Groups so they can be distributed without distributing the object?
Here it is post geometry editing tool. Sorry, didn't let it run to completion since you can see I was able to move everything to street level.
That's cool, perseverance pays off. And you've learned a new technique in the process.