Need opinion on new computer.
Charlie Judge
Posts: 13,376
I need a new computer. Initially I had a budget of only $1000 and so I picked this one out: http://www.adorama.com/CYGUA3700AD.html
However, my tax refund was a little more than I expected. So, by really stretching the budget and being very conservative on buying anything else for awhile I Think I could possibly get this one instead: http://www.adorama.com/CYSLC8040AD.html?utm_medium=display&utm_source=criteo
(Note: detailed specs of each can be seen by scrolling down and clicking on the spec tab)
So my question is: Is the second (and more expensive) one really worth the extra cost?
Thanks for all your help and insights,
Charlie
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Comments
unless you plan to overclock the system then IMHO no. the extra $400+ is not getting you much more than some cooling and a slightly faster CPU and a 2TB drive which can be bought for bout $50 these days.
as you approach higher end specs your benefits and the cost for them start to diminish between systems
I'd take the $$$ you were going to spend on the "better" system and either build something or look at other options. The dealbreakers for me would be system 1 will not let you expand past 16GB RAM and that's a brick wall for 3D in 2016. System 2 is all set up for OC'ing, and that appears to be the bulk of the cost added.
I'd look at what tiger direct has at your price point, and I would also tell you stay clear of newegg, they are no longer trustworthy, you can google it if you don't want to take my word. The $400 should go to more RAM, possibly another GPU if you want fast CUDA and SSD's have been dropping in price so having one now will give you faster boot, faster file access but the RAM and GPU will give you faster system for working in 3D.
Personally, I would go with the more expensive one.
First factor I considered was the liquid cooling. The NVIDIA card can run pretty hot, particularly during rendering, so the liquid cooling might make a significant difference in render speeds. Just a guess though.
Second factor is the Intel chip vs. the AMD chip. I've never been a big fan of AMD and I would go name brand on this. It's a personal call. I would also check to see if the chip set on the Intel makes for easier future upgrade as opposed to the AMD. My thought being that the more expensive rig might be more future proof than the the cheaper one (i.e. being able to upgrade parts later).
My third factor is the SATA III interface on the more expensive rig. It might not make a big deal now, but the transfer rates may be a bigger deal as SATA IIIs become more standard (and come down in price).
Personally, since TigerDirect was bought out, I'd not shop there. The prices are better elsewhere for most parts.
MicroCenter ( www.microcenter.com ) has very competitive prices. I'm fortunate that I have one of their retail stores nearby. Frys ( www.frys.com ) sometimes has some good deals too. And it never hurts to check Amazon.
For $1000 you should be able to assemble a pretty good i7 system, or a kick-but AMD. (I'm assuming you aren't including stuff like monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers....those will transfer to the new system.)
From Microcenter:
Intel Core i7 6700K 4.0GHz socket 1151 $350
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero 1151 MB $215 ($20 off bundle with CPU above)
Corsair 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 $95
TT Toughpower Grand 1050W 80+Gold $220 ($30 rebate too)
Tower Case (various types) $50 (around that)
Samsung 850 EVO SSD 250GB $90
WD Black 7200RPM 2TB HDD $130
WH16NS40 16x Int. Blu-Ray Rewriter $55
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Total before GPU..................................$1115
EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC w/ACX.....$350 ($30 rebate)
Total: $1465 (plus shipping)
If you aren't planning on adding more GPUs, you can drop the Power Supply down to a 750W or so, for about $100 less, and double the memory with that extra money. And you could go with a more mid-range motherboard, and probably save another $100.
And for $130, they'll build it for you.
I've used ibuypower.com with good results. One nice thing about that site is, you can start with a base system and customize. They have frequent sales. I ordered a core i7 system with an average sized SSD for a boot drive, and no hard drive, because I had a 2TB HDD previously purchased elsewhere on sale. Another nice thing about their site is when you choose a set of components that are too much for the power supply, it tells you to upgrade the PS.
I'm pretty much with Strat Dragon.
For rendering, you want decent processor - i7 but not absolutely essential; memory, not less than 16GB; good nvidia graphics card (if IRAY). Good PSU.
SSDs are nice but add nothing to rendering.
Don't overclock, you will significan't affect the length of time components last; the electric bill payer will also prefer it.
That graphics card is a mistake, only 1664 CUDA cores, you will regret that purchase.
I have a 980Ti which has 2816 CUDA cores plus more RAM 6GB, and I'lm already ready to upgrade to a 2nd card.
You'll be dissapointed in that 970 SSC with only 4GB ram and 1664 CUDAs. I would find a way to scrape up a little more money if I was you and get the 980Ti, its the sweet spot for GPUs right now.
Yep, and the 980 Ti is twice the cost of a 970. I have a 970, and truthfully, it's fine for most basic scenes. True, it will never be as fast as a 980, but if you're on a limited budget and need to build a new system for under $1500, you'll have a really hard time doing it when the video card alone is around $650.
Yep. No way can I afford a GTX 980ti right now. Maybe buy the more expandable second system and plan to upgrade later with more RAM and a second GTX 970 and SLI bridge?
Iray won't use SLI. Just uses both cards.
And I wouldn't call the 980Ti's price/performance ratio the 'sweet spot'. It's twice the price of the 970, and has 1.7 times the cores. Currently, most independant evaluations place the 970 as the 'sweet spot', having the best price/performance ratio.
The system I laid out above would give you even better than the second system you listed (once you do as suggested and back down the Motherboard, but keep the power supply since you seem to be looking ahead at a second 970 GTX card, and double the memory) as it has double the size of SSD, twice the memory, a better power supply, and a Blu-ray rewriter (which is great for backing up your content files!)
I have a 970 in my Desktop and I have been very happy with it. As someone else mentioned, I wouldn't bother putting two of them in. I have only heard of problems and / or very little gain doing this.
Better to save that extra money and put it aside for future upgrades to the second machine you listed (which is still my suggestion).
The custom build idea is also a good one, but my personal preference is to try and start from a stable base with a new desktop. That way if you have issues upgrading later, you know you can always roll back to the original configuration. It's rare, but the custom builds don't always provide that stable foundation. (I.e. you could get a build tech that is having a bad day, or knows that component A with component B causes problems but just doesn't care, etc.etc.). The same could happen with any build of course but, as I said, it's just a personal experience thing.
I don't know if the AMD's are better or worse than the Intels. At this time all the systems I personally own are intels, and all the ones I support at work are intels as well. In the past I've owned and used several AMD CPUS and had no issue with performance. AMD was the first manufacturer to break the 1GHz. barrier and AMD/ATI cards generally perform better than equally priced Nvidia cards, AMD and Nvidia sell chip to vendors, vendors like ASUS or Happauge, or MSI and they make the cards so this is not buying an Nvida card from Nvidia, it's buying an Nvidia card from Galaxy. Unfortunately for DS users who want to take advantage of Iray AMD/ATI is not the way to go and if you bought an ATI (or own a new Mac and that's all they will sell you now with 4GB GPU RAM) your fall back is the CPU.
What I do know is that Intel is selling a handful of 6th Gen i7's that are dual core, not quad core so in the immortal words of Chuck D from Public Enemy "Check yourself, before you wreck yourself." These are normally for laptops, but I expect desktop systems to adopt. A dual core i7 is not much better than a low end 6th gen i5. You get the name, you get the bragging rights but that's where the story ends. If you go i7 - and I own 2 i7's - 1st gen and 6th gen (both quad's, I checked) they are excellent CPU's but there are plenty of AMD's that will compete with them for the same price point or less.
DO your homework before you buy and do some price comparisons and you won't be kicking yourself in the @$$ later because 1.5 large was burning a hole in your pocket.
ideally:
i7 quad (3.5 is not THAT much slower than a 4.0, not for what they're asking as a premium), but don't discount AMD. John Lennon played an Epiphone, not a Gibson.
32GB RAM. Because while it sounds like A LOT, it's not, not any more it's not especially if you work with polygons and lighting and textures.
a 960 with 4GB RAM or better, 970 is great, after that you looking at half the cost of your system for just the CPU
a bronze or better PSU at about 750 W. PSU is like speakers, better to over-power the system than under power and cause damage - and the more you go up with your GPU the better and more powerful PSU you need to invest in.
a 2 TB drive SATA 6 Gb/s can be had for less than $100 (get 7200 RPM, not 5000!) -
If you go SSD you will need another large HD for storage. SSD's are coming down in price but since platter based HD's are not going away and their capacity per $ is clearly way better than SSD they remain a very valid part. BUT if you don't have a backup you could have a brick. A production systems should have a backup! (which reminds me, mine is out of date!)
for RAM, PSU, CASE I prefer Corsair parts, they are a little more but the quality is excellent and for me they tend to work despite the fact I render in Lux and my computer can stay on and hot for days without interruption when I queue up jobs to run while I'm out.
Thanks everybody for your input It has been most helpful. IWithsome specials I have been able to put together a custom system from the company that built the other systems I was looking at but at a lower price (just under $1400) and with more features
I7 6700K 4mhz quadcore (with special it is same price as the 3.K)
Corsair carbide cabinet
32 GB RAM (corsair DDR4)
1000W power supply
2TB Sata III hard drive (no SSD)
EVGA nVidia GTX 970 (special price with a savings of about $175 today only)
OR if I cut back on memory and only get 16GB now (with room to expand) the same system would be $150 cheaper or about $1250.
Charlie
@hphoenix: I tried looking at microcenter but I couldn't find a way to configure and order online and I don't live near any of the stores; but thanks for the suggesstion
I would stick to the 32 GB RAM
Assuming I can do one but not both, would you do that or go with a second GTX 970 while they are on sale today for not much more than the extra 16GB of RAM?
The 970 works quite well for DS and Iray as long as it has 4GB of dedicated RAM. I use the 960 with 4 GB and it works just fine. I'd stick with the RAM if you do large scenes. You can never have to much RAM in this hobby/business
An EVGA 970GTX for $175???? WHERE?
Also, what kind of motherboard, and make sure they know you want the 1000W power supply to be 80PLUS certified.
Stick with 32 GB for sure. You will need it.
It's today's special at CyberpowerPC; but it is only when included in a system
Motherboard is: MSI Z170A Gaming Pro CARBON ATX w/ Programmable Lighting, USB 3.1, 3 PCIe x16, 4 PCIe x1, 1 SATA Express, 4 SATA3, 1 Ultra M.2 (Extreme OC Certified) [+0]
Power Supply is: Standard 1000W 80Gold certified
Damn....that's a VERY tempting price. They normally retail at around $350.
Motherboard is good. MSI used to be a lot less reliable, but they've gotten a lot better over the last 5 years.
Power Supply sounds good. What brand is it?
No brand just says "standard"; If I went with a branded one it would cost me another $100
Anyway there is a 3 year warrenty on everything
You can get really good power supplies for very reasonable. I have a 1000 watt. Do some window shopping and make sure you check the specs for the graphics card.
Thanks everybody for all your input. It was really helpful. Based on your responses I increased the RAM to 32Gb. Also based on advice in the Cyberpower forums I changed the power supply from the generic 1000W to a name brand Corsair 850W. In order to take advantage of the spcial on the EVGA nVidia GTX 970 I had to place the order today . So, basically here is what I bought for $1454:with discounts (I guess I won't be spending much in the March Madness sale though)
I7 6700K 4mhz quadcore
Corsair carbide cabinet
32 GB RAM (corsair DDR4)
850W Corsair 80+ Gold certified PSU
2TB Sata III hard drive (no SSD)
EVGA nVidia GTX 970 (special price with a savings of about $175 today only)
MSI Z170A Gaming Pro CARBON ATX w/ Programmable Lighting, USB 3.1, 3 PCIe x16, 4 PCIe x1, 1 SATA Express, 4 SATA3, 1 Ultra M.2 (Extreme OC Certified) motherboard
I've got my fingers crossed hoping this all works out well. I selected "No Rush" to save a few dollars so it will be a couple of weeks before I get it. Full specs are:
Mega Special II (NO MONITOR)
Nice system you can always add more cards as you save up. I myself have a name brand 1000watt powersupply and the name branded ones tend to be better made. I would keep the Nvidia 970 for monitors and when the new pascal Nvidia cards show up it should drive down the price on a nice 6gb nvidia 980.
Nice!
And I was going to advise you to drop the watts on the PS and get a name brand. A lot of the 'off brand' power supplies CLAIM to be 80PLUS certified and aren't even close. Corsair are pretty good.
But I still would have found somewhere to save enough to put a small-ish (240GB) SSD in as a boot drive. Good to see you remembered to buy a copy of Windows to put on it.....a lot of people forget, then get a system with no OS. Drop the second optical drive, drop the HDD down to 1TB, and add in the SSD. And it would be close to perfect. No idea how much those changes would affect the price at that place, though.
Putting a second GPU card in there may put a strain on the 850W power supply. I'd be cautious about power ratings for any second card. A 970 GTX draws about 300W at full load, only about 75W at idle. So two of those in that system would be 600W just for the GPUs at full load on both. That only leaves about 250W for everything else, with no headroom. The i7 6700k draws about 110W at max load. Running two 970GTX cards could push the power up above the 90% of rated power mark with everything else. Just be cautious. And the 980Ti can draw upwards of 400W. You might have to have someone upgrade the power supply when you add an additional GPU.....