what do you need to master in Blender to make something product worthy?

2

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  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited February 2016

    I have recently noticed that the complete Blender for Dummies book is freely available at issuu.com - the same e-publisher that DAZ use for their magazine.

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Post edited by marble on
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273
    Drekkan said:

    For Daz4. Can it be done with a lot of time and skill and attention to detail? many say you don't need to pay for top notch state of the art graphics programs when some good ones are already avaliable for free.

    it can be done in Hex too but that's about all Hex does. Hex is ancient as far as software goes. It's overdue for an update that has yet to be seen despite the years of rumors to it's coming, and possibly the most unstable program I have ever used on any platform.

    So while Blender is heavy on the keyboard commands it's also heavy on key features which Hex lacks. 

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273
    marble said:

    I have recently noticed that the complete Blender for Dummies book is freely available at issuu.com - the same e-publisher that DAZ use for their magazine.

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Well you'll know where to find me for the rest of the day! Thanks!

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273

    If you use blender and you need to rig clothing the tools to rig in blender do not translate to DS at this time, nor does particle system (unless you bake your results)

    For any modeling you should master modeling and UV mapping, if you can create a relaistic model even a passible model these two tools are invaluable. 

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

  • MythconsMythcons Posts: 123

    Blender is great for preparing content for Daz, but as StratDragon said, you cannot rig or created finishd products for Daz in Blender. Fortunately Daz has some great tools for importing and finishing that content for you.

    If you use key shapes in Blender, you can actually import models from Daz and create your own morphing system that is basically identical. I often use this to test and refine morphs that I propose to Daz3D. You can export morphs that are properly imported/exported as morphs for Genesis.

    I wouldn't mind answering any questions (to the extent of my knowledge), but I a bit too busy to do one-on-one lessons.

     

  • DrekkanDrekkan Posts: 460

    If you use blender and you need to rig clothing the tools to rig in blender do not translate to DS at this time, nor does particle system (unless you bake your results)

    For any modeling you should master modeling and UV mapping, if you can create a relaistic model even a passible model these two tools are invaluable. 

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Thx but does this tutorial focus on the animation side of the program soley? that's the impression I get.

  • You can also look here to get object from blender into DS the lazy way.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085
    edited February 2016

    Just want to be clear that I'm not saying Blender is bad, or that nobody should use it, or anything.

    What I AM saying is that some people who like Blender are being a little overly dismissive of certain concerns and the costs involved of using Blender.

    Those costs may very well be totally reasonable for people, but they exist.

     

    I've been poking at the 3D Coat demo. The UI is (IMO) much more inviting, but it's a lot to absorb, still.

    So far I've been falling back on Carrara for a lot of modeling. It might not be as feature rich as some of those others, but if you can get it on sale, it's not bad. And I, at least, find the UI a lot more comprehensible.

     

     

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • marble said:

    I have recently noticed that the complete Blender for Dummies book is freely available at issuu.com - the same e-publisher that DAZ use for their magazine.

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Crap, I bought that book a few years ago and paid for shipping

    still was too dumb to learn much from it though!

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273
    edited February 2016

    Just want to be clear that I'm not saying Blender is bad, or that nobody should use it, or anything.

    What I AM saying is that some people who like Blender are being a little overly dismissive of certain concerns and the costs involved of using Blender.

    Those costs may very well be totally reasonable for people, but they exist.

     

    I've been poking at the 3D Coat demo. The UI is (IMO) much more inviting, but it's a lot to absorb, still.

    So far I've been falling back on Carrara for a lot of modeling. It might not be as feature rich as some of those others, but if you can get it on sale, it's not bad. And I, at least, find the UI a lot more comprehensible.

     

     

    I'm curious as to what the costs are? Monetary investments needed after you begin using Blender or did you mean something else?

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Time is money.

    If Product A requires a month of training and tutorials before I start getting anything out of it, and Product B is somewhat sensible after playing with it for a day, and I make clear progress every time I use it, Product B has a lower cost/ROI in terms of time.

    If Product A requires two weeks of training before I even find out if I like using it or it works into my style/flow, and Product B is obvious after a day, Product A is requiring an investment that Product B does not.

     

    It's hard to measure, but it's not hard to see that there is some amount of money Product B could cost to be 'even' with Product A.

     

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273
    Drekkan said:

    If you use blender and you need to rig clothing the tools to rig in blender do not translate to DS at this time, nor does particle system (unless you bake your results)

    For any modeling you should master modeling and UV mapping, if you can create a relaistic model even a passible model these two tools are invaluable. 

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Thx but does this tutorial focus on the animation side of the program soley? that's the impression I get.

    that's not a tutorial, it's a book, it covers what the application does, not solely on specific tasks. If you want tutorials there are hundreds if not thousands of tutorials out there that are a web search away.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,723

    I've been debating whether I want to do all that modeling in Blender or buy something like Marvelous Designer which would instantly become the most expensive piece of SW I own by far, if you don't add up the cost of all my DAZ content or Poser upgrades.  laugh Even with Mavelous Designer though allot of the clothing I want to make will require a lot of work and has little interest outside the special use cases I want it for but it is interesting though.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    On the gripping hand, one of the benefits of a free product is that you can dip your toe whenever you want, as much as you want. And if you learn over 5 years, well, hey.

     

    For example, I'm probably going to poke at retopo using Blender. Maybe after I play with that a bit I play with some other specialty thing and in 3 years will be singing Blender's praises. We'll see. ;)

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854

    yep, I know Blender is great software, and yep, it can do Serious modelling, I wasn't minorizing over Modo701, nonono!

    the only stir is the UI, that's why I said if he/she master Blender then....got it?.

    my workflow does not need invest more time learning the UI than learning the modelling tools, learning the tools is a priority for me, not a la inverse.

    ...which is why I love Hexagon and why I really wish some "development love" would come it's way to update it and fix the instabilities.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    Hiro: a lot of us enjoy UIs that don't require memorizing key commands, keyboard stencils, and similar. For people who have bad memories or ability or interest in learning that much rote stuff, Blender (and similar apps) are effectively extremely difficult.

    ...especially those of us with who are dyslexic and have short term memory issues.

    The latter is also why video tutorials do not work for me.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    Drekkan said:

    For Daz4. Can it be done with a lot of time and skill and attention to detail? many say you don't need to pay for top notch state of the art graphics programs when some good ones are already avaliable for free.

     

    I don't specialize in architecture, but I do a lot of rigged props, and I invariably use Blender for base meshing, materials, UV, and morphs.  Zbrush is nice to have for its remesher and for hirez normal map generation, but it's not mandatory starting out.  People in this thread are being pretty negative.  What's important in our market is not what tools you use, it is your mastery of them.  If you find Blender is something you can't master, the popular choice among my fellow PAs is generally Hexagon or Silo.  Only a few use the really expensive apps for base meshing (although I think Daz's in-house artists use a lot of Modo).

    ...if I am not correct, Stonemason uses 3DS.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    Vadrus said:

    If you master Blender, the answer is YES.

    for serious mesh modelling I would choose Modo701 but is not free.

    Modo is on 902 now!

    And tbh there isn't much difference between it's modeling capabilities and Blenders, I've got both and am always torn as to which to dedicate the time to learning.

    Modo is slightly more straightforward to use but these days Blender is the more complete package and its Cycles renderer I feel is better than Modos more old fashioned rendering engine.

     

    ...that is exactly what I don't want,  I have enough other applications for surfacing, rigging, rendering, etc. I just need a good stable dedicated modeller with an intuitive UI and not bloated with a lot of other bells & whistles I'll rarely if ever use.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    I've been experimenting with Carrara again (since I had already bought it a while back on sale).

    I think the biggest limitation I see so far is no retopo. I end up with these nutty messy meshes. I've only started poking at it more seriously, so maybe I'm missing something, but I could really use some sort of 'smoothing' function.

    However, if I can use Blender to do retopo, might do the trick.

    (I've also been relying on UVMapper to fix wonky UV maps, too)

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    fool said:
    marble said:

    I have recently noticed that the complete Blender for Dummies book is freely available at issuu.com - the same e-publisher that DAZ use for their magazine.

    https://issuu.com/esc33/docs/blender_for_dummies_-_3rd_edition__

    Crap, I bought that book a few years ago and paid for shipping

    still was too dumb to learn much from it though!

    ...my copy is packed away somewhere in a box in my storage unit. Didn't help me much either.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    The other thing that makes me grind my teeth is that it's a key-heavy app that ... disregards standard practice of Windows.

    Like, ctrl-X deletes in most apps. Doesn't in Blender.

    ctrl-A to select all? Doesn't in Blender.

     

     

  • You can also look here to get object from blender into DS the lazy way.

    um, this has nothing to do with the thread, but...are you named after a piers anthony story character?

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    No to select all you hit a instead of ctrl-a, personally i find that easier. and to delete I use the delete key. (Actually in what programs is it ctrl-x, I pretty much always use delete to delete stuff)
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    In what program is it Ctrl-X:

    Firefox, IE, MS Word, Carrara, GIMP, Paint.net, Photoshop, Bryce, just off the top of my head.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    Wait... ctrl-x is cut not delete (and there's totally an add-on for blender that lets you do that)
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    One thing I still have not quite got my head around is the difference between modelling and sculting, both of which are available in Blender. Blender has sculpting tools similar to the brushes in ZBrush but these are separate from the modelling tools. I have Hexagon but can't/don't use it because the Mac version tends to crash every few minutes. But I believe hat Hexagon only has modelling tools? I also prefer to use the scultping tools in Blender. I can smooth and wrinkle and deform easily but I have not yet learned the modelling side so am not really familiar with what is possible.

    Bear in mind that I use these tools for morphing, not modelling. I don't understand rigging yet either - another self-learning project that has been on hold for far too long. With morphs, I understand that no vertices may be added or deleted or even subdivided. Yet sometimes I think that smoothing seems to subdivide. That's what I don't get - how to add detail without destroying the mesh for DAZ Studio?

    One last thing, on the subject of rigging - I've tried to follow the tutorials on YouTube and have a set of videos by Dreamlight but when I look at G3F, I see that the weight maps look nothing like the video. Genesis 3 seems to have a single weight map called General and previous figures had multiple regions which now appear in the Unused drop-down. So are all of the previous tutorials irrelevant now? Is there an updated version somewhere? All I want to do for now is add some handles to clothing because so many of the purchased items just can't be draped realistically.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    I think I posted this in the wrong thread ... maybe it should have been this one? http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/72428/can-you-create-decent-daz-scenes-buildings-settings-using-blender-alone#latest

    Perhaps they should be merges as they are both covering the same ground.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    marble said:

    One thing I still have not quite got my head around is the difference between modelling and sculting, both of which are available in Blender. Blender has sculpting tools similar to the brushes in ZBrush but these are separate from the modelling tools. I have Hexagon but can't/don't use it because the Mac version tends to crash every few minutes. But I believe hat Hexagon only has modelling tools? I also prefer to use the scultping tools in Blender. I can smooth and wrinkle and deform easily but I have not yet learned the modelling side so am not really familiar with what is possible.

    Bear in mind that I use these tools for morphing, not modelling. I don't understand rigging yet either - another self-learning project that has been on hold for far too long. With morphs, I understand that no vertices may be added or deleted or even subdivided. Yet sometimes I think that smoothing seems to subdivide. That's what I don't get - how to add detail without destroying the mesh for DAZ Studio?

    One last thing, on the subject of rigging - I've tried to follow the tutorials on YouTube and have a set of videos by Dreamlight but when I look at G3F, I see that the weight maps look nothing like the video. Genesis 3 seems to have a single weight map called General and previous figures had multiple regions which now appear in the Unused drop-down. So are all of the previous tutorials irrelevant now? Is there an updated version somewhere? All I want to do for now is add some handles to clothing because so many of the purchased items just can't be draped realistically.

    Think of modelling a bit like using building blocks. You add a vert or groups of verts one at a time. With sculpting, its best to think of it as using clay - you push, pull, shape, smooth, add and remove as required.

  • RenomistaRenomista Posts: 921
    edited February 2016
    Chohole said:

    At the moment we have locked the other one and directed over to this one, while we debate how much confusion would be caused by a merge.

    Why do you lock the one with more information in it and leave the one with almost only partial duplicate Info....

     

    In this case a Merge would be better....

    Post edited by Renomista on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited February 2016
    nicstt said:
    marble said:

    One thing I still have not quite got my head around is the difference between modelling and sculting, both of which are available in Blender. Blender has sculpting tools similar to the brushes in ZBrush but these are separate from the modelling tools. I have Hexagon but can't/don't use it because the Mac version tends to crash every few minutes. But I believe hat Hexagon only has modelling tools? I also prefer to use the scultping tools in Blender. I can smooth and wrinkle and deform easily but I have not yet learned the modelling side so am not really familiar with what is possible.

    Bear in mind that I use these tools for morphing, not modelling. I don't understand rigging yet either - another self-learning project that has been on hold for far too long. With morphs, I understand that no vertices may be added or deleted or even subdivided. Yet sometimes I think that smoothing seems to subdivide. That's what I don't get - how to add detail without destroying the mesh for DAZ Studio?

    One last thing, on the subject of rigging - I've tried to follow the tutorials on YouTube and have a set of videos by Dreamlight but when I look at G3F, I see that the weight maps look nothing like the video. Genesis 3 seems to have a single weight map called General and previous figures had multiple regions which now appear in the Unused drop-down. So are all of the previous tutorials irrelevant now? Is there an updated version somewhere? All I want to do for now is add some handles to clothing because so many of the purchased items just can't be draped realistically.

    Think of modelling a bit like using building blocks. You add a vert or groups of verts one at a time. With sculpting, its best to think of it as using clay - you push, pull, shape, smooth, add and remove as required.

    I get that but the modelling tools also push, pull and shape, don't they? And adding or removing is not allowed for morphs. I'm just confused as to why the need for both.

    The other question about weight maps in DAZ Studio is one I've asked before and nobody answered. Is it so new that nobody knows?

    Post edited by marble on
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