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You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption

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  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,686
    dkgoose said:

    Are there not offline files available for the detective bundle files?

    There are.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854

    ...@ linvanchene

    My personal solution is indeed to only buy content at DAZ3D exactly because that way I can just use the official category system and do not have to invest any time at all adding tags to 3rd party content. I know how to create products for other stores manually. I did that for 100s of products. But I simply am not anymore in the mood to keep doing that. In the future I will pay for products with metadata set up. Either the other stores can provide that or they cannot...

    ...that's nice and all however there are some really great products at other stores that will be missed. One actually offers "real world" vehicles and aircraft for Poser and Daz which you cannot get here. When I do city scenes I like to use cars, trucks and buses that one can actually recognise and fit with the setting. Same goes for scenes involving aircraft. I also have a fairly large collection of freebies most of which are just as high in quality as commercial content.

    As I also only use the Content Pane (Smart Content takes up too much display real estate for my taste and the CMS has failed enough times for me not to trust it), I only have one location to deal with for what I need and have it categorised in a way that is most efficient for my workflow.  Were I to allow 4.9 and Smart Content to attempt "reorganising" my library/runtime. it would be a mess.

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    father1776_5775a1855d said:

    2 have zero use for a toll booth  ..that was the killer

     

    ...for me the opposite was true with the Monthly Freebie as I don't do fantasy work.  Maybe that was the one they should have used for the "experiment".

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451

    They are not showing up for me 

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,686
    dkgoose said:

    They are not showing up for me 

    Can you post a screenshot of the page from your Product Library?

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451

    It's not the best I can't zoom out fully on my iPhone 

    image.png
    750 x 1334 - 160K
  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451
    edited February 2016

    Well I have files now for that part of the bundle quickly  after posting the screenshot...so if that was you, thanks :)

    image.png
    750 x 1334 - 172K
    image.png
    750 x 1334 - 173K
    Post edited by Dkgoose on
  • father1776father1776 Posts: 982

    I will guess that encryption is...very low on your customers want list

     

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,567

        

    linvanchene said:

    In all the time I only about three times edited a .duf file manually. In all the other times I wanted to edit a .duf I noticed that the .duf is encrypted, shrugged with the shoulders and moved on...

    In general, the .duf files that look encrypted when you open them are, in fact, merely compressed. Add .zip to the end of the file name, unzip it, and you have a perfectly normal human-readable file.

    (.daz files are another matter entirely. Those are neither encrypted nor human-readable.)

  • Seliah (Childe of Fyre)Seliah (Childe of Fyre) Posts: 337
    edited February 2016
    DAZ_ann0314 said:
     All of our brokered items (IE ARTCollaborations) (to date that I know of) all have manual installs. Now Freebie items we release (IE ARTCollab) may not, but we have no control over in what way those are released as they are owned by Daz 3D and even all those have manual installers to the best of my knowledge (one did not yesterday but that was an oversight and was since fixed).

    Yes. I understand. Please... please understand that I do not in any way hold a vendor responsible for anything that Daz as the company decides to do. I don't.

    I also totally, totally support protecting the hard work that PA's/vendors do.

    My issues are that with encrypted Connect content, I do not have access to my installer zip files, and that with the way the current Connect system is set up, I also have no control over how I want to organize that content within my copy of Daz Studio. Making "shortcuts" to get clickable icons of my content where I want it placed does not count for having control over my own personal organization of my libraries and where content gets installed. It is not the same thing by any means.

    I do not blame the PA's for that which is outside of their control. If Connect is adjusted to address my two main issues, then I will be perfectly fine with using it. At present, though, it is not acceptable for my own workflow, so items that lack a Manual Install, will definitely not get purchased by me.

    I'm okay with the notion of encryption as a method to protect the PA's and vendors' hard work. But it has to be done in such a way as to not be punishing to the honest user. 

    Post edited by Seliah (Childe of Fyre) on
  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312

    A question...

    Is it possible to do an offline install in the latest beta version of 4.9? Even though my main render system is an offline system, I did, very reluctantly, let it connect to the DAZ server to get that one time connection needed to be able to do OFFline installs later on. Even installed that Content Mangler System (as it is possible to shut it down....). But sofar no luck in installing the offline files. They were placed in the designated directory according to the instructiuons DAZ gave, but when I choose offline install, a popup window opens for a split-second, and then nothing........

    (I'm still checking 4.9 beta for compatability with my previous saved scenes/character set-ups, and although the results are promising, I'm not yet ready to replace 4.8 with 4.9)

    As to encrypted items, not my 1st choice as it limits my possibilities to use with Poser and Vue (For me, DSON was and is a very useful poser plugin to importt genenis and genesis 2 content functionally into Poser....., not possible with encrypted content AFAIK....)

     

     

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,407
    glaseye said:

    A question...

    Is it possible to do an offline install in the latest beta version of 4.9? Even though my main render system is an offline system, I did, very reluctantly, let it connect to the DAZ server to get that one time connection needed to be able to do OFFline installs later on. Even installed that Content Mangler System (as it is possible to shut it down....). But sofar no luck in installing the offline files. They were placed in the designated directory according to the instructiuons DAZ gave, but when I choose offline install, a popup window opens for a split-second, and then nothing........

    (I'm still checking 4.9 beta for compatability with my previous saved scenes/character set-ups, and although the results are promising, I'm not yet ready to replace 4.8 with 4.9)

    As to encrypted items, not my 1st choice as it limits my possibilities to use with Poser and Vue (For me, DSON was and is a very useful poser plugin to importt genenis and genesis 2 content functionally into Poser....., not possible with encrypted content AFAIK....)

     

     

    I've done it. The key for off-line install seems to be that the off-line connect install will NOT replace a DIM installed file - so if you are trying to install something via stand-alone and it has already been installed by DIM - it won't install.
  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312

    nope, I don't use DIM to download/install content, and the item is encrypted, not been installed before... as said, the offline install window will not even stay open..... just opens for a split second....., 

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,686

    Can you double-check that the beta is version 4.9.0.63?

  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312
    Fixmypcmike said:

    Can you double-check that the beta is version 4.9.0.63?

    checked and double checked , yes it is beta 4.9.0.63

    The one time my render system was connected, it also dl'd alot of meta-data (which has no use to me)

    I did an online test install for one (different) encrypted item, that worked.

    For the offline try I put the .sea and .sep files in the ....\data\cloud\install    folder

    The online installed item is in the ....\data\cloud\1_#####     folder so as far as I can tell, the offline files are in the right place....

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,638

    Thanks for making Toll booth non-DRM. I really appreciate it.
     

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    TesseractSpace said:

    Sigh... I'm torn. I want to perform some technical tests with encrypted content. But I don't want to 'show support' for encryption by buying any. And this is just another one of the 'DAZ Free' items even if my PC+ Membership (Cancelled but still has time left) gives me the free purchase. So it would be buying it even if my payment came from back when I got my subscription. And so the only way to make sure my number is accurately represented is to not get this item. But for the record, it really does not improve my opinion of this DRM project when I have to give up on something I paid for just so someone can't use it to say that I support something I do not. When I asked about a free item for technical testing, I meant a truly free, no strings item.  (So if you've got an Ultron around... I know there's no strings on him. :) )

    As I am reading, I'm feeling much the same way here.  I want to test so that I can figure out if this might work for me, but I don't want my testing to skew the results and possibly contribute to the condemnation of myself and my fellow PC+ members and DAZ users to a potential eternal purgatory of DRM.

    So now I am stuck.  And still on page 25...

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    TesseractSpace said:

    Sigh... I'm torn. I want to perform some technical tests with encrypted content. But I don't want to 'show support' for encryption by buying any. And this is just another one of the 'DAZ Free' items even if my PC+ Membership (Cancelled but still has time left) gives me the free purchase. So it would be buying it even if my payment came from back when I got my subscription. And so the only way to make sure my number is accurately represented is to not get this item. But for the record, it really does not improve my opinion of this DRM project when I have to give up on something I paid for just so someone can't use it to say that I support something I do not. When I asked about a free item for technical testing, I meant a truly free, no strings item.  (So if you've got an Ultron around... I know there's no strings on him. :) )

    As I am reading, I'm feeling much the same way here.  I want to test so that I can figure out if this might work for me, but I don't want my testing to skew the results and possibly contribute to the condemnation of myself and my fellow PC+ members and DAZ users to a potential eternal purgatory of DRM.

    So now I am stuck.  And still on page 25...

    I'm already running into items that simply do not work properly when installed through Connect. So far items that call on models and textures from other products and any that use a .daz scene file to load content.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    kyoto kid said:
    TesseractSpace said:
    Crescent said:

     

    I don't like the encryption, either, as it stops me from fixing and customizing settings in files but I might even put up with that if I could bloody well keep my current content organization intact.  DO NOT TELL ME I CAN MAKE A GAZILLION SHORTCUTS TO FAKE THINGS.  I use several Runtimes to keep things sorted the way I need them. I regularly create and blow away Runtimes when I'm done with them. I have over 30 different folders for install files so I can easily find what I want to install.  I don't remember products by name or vendor so looking through an alphabetical list is useless for me.  Sorting through a list of what someone else considers fantasy vs. sci-fi or whatever is useless because I won't always agree with the 'official' selections.  It would take days or weeks for me to tag all of my purchases so I could find them.  (Over 15 years worth of purchases = lots of stuff to tag.)

    I buy, I download directly into a categorized folder, I install to the correct Runtime and I'm done.  (If the vendor did a lot of vanity folder garbage, I strip it out and resave the .zip so future installs are cleaner.)  It's almost as fast as using DC but I don't have to spend a ton of time trying to figure out where DAZ thought my purchase should go then tagging, making shortcuts, etc. to get things in a semi-workable state.  

    Again, for those of you that like the new organization system - great.  Mazel Tov.  I'm unsarcastically happy for you.  Just stop insisting that I'm an idiot or a Luddite because the system you like doesn't work for me. I don't consider you dumb for liking the new organization system so I'd appreciate the same level of respect in return.

    Thanks.

    In the quest to make things easier for new users, they should remember that more experienced users want to continue using methods and have access to features that they've gotten used to using. Sometimes removing old features is unavoidable or even desirable, but Connect strikes me as an attempt to implement an 'easy mode' for content management. Which is fine. I actually like connect other than some not so minor technical issues that your tech people are getting an earful of. But the Connect Only content can be taken as a means of forcing adoption of this 'easy mode' which is not cool. I can understand where it's related to the encryption, though that is a problem in and of itself. I just want to strongly suggest that there never come a time where unencrypted content is deliberately released as Connect Only as the only feature that could possibly come from that is a rather questionable sort of convenience. (Though at least for those who like working in 'expert' mode, the non-encrypted Connect content does install in neat little single folders that can be modifiied to taste, zipped for backup and moved to wherever works for you. Sorta saves the step of unzipping to a new folder to fix vanity folders and such. Just have to zip it up for backup when done. Oh, and probably tell connect that you've unistalled it after you've done what you needed to since that'd likely leave an empty folder where it expects to find something.  About the only issue would be not having the metadata one gets from DIM, but if you're not bothering with the Smart Content, that's usually not an issue, I think.)

    ...it is sort of akin to the approach MS has taken with Win 10.  They assumed because the "average" user doesn't or rarely update(s) his/her system, they have to implement a mandatory update policy so that even power users (such as myself) are not given the choice to choose which updates to install.

    The group policy editor allows power users such as yourself to override the factory policy and update on your own terms.  I use this on my Windows 10 laptop.  This also prevents auto reboots from happening at the worst of times.  One caveat, however:  You must have Windows 10 higher than "home" version.  But as you say, you're a power user so I would surmise that you probably would.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    Daikatana said:

    This is going to "sound" weird but the inclusion of DRM has somehow "killed" some of the fun for me.  

      I prefer not to use connect if I don't have to because DIM grabs everything for me in nice convenient zip files and stores them in a directory that I created on an external drive thus giving me a secure backup of all my content.

    That is why I also will not use connect. And I will not buy anything at the store that is encrypted daz connect only, these products DAZ can keep no matter how good they are.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    edited February 2016
    SimonJM said:

    Had a silly thought about an hour ago ... would it not be lovely to have Connect as an OPTIONAL plug-in?

    ...it would also make the Daz application leaner for those who don't want to use it. I already don't bother installing plugins and bridges I never would use to minimise bloat.

    The last thing I need while working or rendering is being connected to the Net which just takes more CPU and memory resoruces away..

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,686
    kyoto kid said:
    SimonJM said:

    Had a silly thought about an hour ago ... would it not be lovely to have Connect as an OPTIONAL plug-in?

    ...it would also make the Daz application leaner for those who don't want to use it. I already don't bother installing plugins and bridges I never would use to minimise bloat.

    The last thing I need while working or rendering is being connected to the Net which just takes more CPU and memory resoruces away..

    You don't need to be connected to the net while working or rendering.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854
    edited February 2016
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    kyoto kid said:
    TesseractSpace said:
    Crescent said:

     

    I don't like the encryption, either, as it stops me from fixing and customizing settings in files but I might even put up with that if I could bloody well keep my current content organization intact.  DO NOT TELL ME I CAN MAKE A GAZILLION SHORTCUTS TO FAKE THINGS.  I use several Runtimes to keep things sorted the way I need them. I regularly create and blow away Runtimes when I'm done with them. I have over 30 different folders for install files so I can easily find what I want to install.  I don't remember products by name or vendor so looking through an alphabetical list is useless for me.  Sorting through a list of what someone else considers fantasy vs. sci-fi or whatever is useless because I won't always agree with the 'official' selections.  It would take days or weeks for me to tag all of my purchases so I could find them.  (Over 15 years worth of purchases = lots of stuff to tag.)

    I buy, I download directly into a categorized folder, I install to the correct Runtime and I'm done.  (If the vendor did a lot of vanity folder garbage, I strip it out and resave the .zip so future installs are cleaner.)  It's almost as fast as using DC but I don't have to spend a ton of time trying to figure out where DAZ thought my purchase should go then tagging, making shortcuts, etc. to get things in a semi-workable state.  

    Again, for those of you that like the new organization system - great.  Mazel Tov.  I'm unsarcastically happy for you.  Just stop insisting that I'm an idiot or a Luddite because the system you like doesn't work for me. I don't consider you dumb for liking the new organization system so I'd appreciate the same level of respect in return.

    Thanks.

    In the quest to make things easier for new users, they should remember that more experienced users want to continue using methods and have access to features that they've gotten used to using. Sometimes removing old features is unavoidable or even desirable, but Connect strikes me as an attempt to implement an 'easy mode' for content management. Which is fine. I actually like connect other than some not so minor technical issues that your tech people are getting an earful of. But the Connect Only content can be taken as a means of forcing adoption of this 'easy mode' which is not cool. I can understand where it's related to the encryption, though that is a problem in and of itself. I just want to strongly suggest that there never come a time where unencrypted content is deliberately released as Connect Only as the only feature that could possibly come from that is a rather questionable sort of convenience. (Though at least for those who like working in 'expert' mode, the non-encrypted Connect content does install in neat little single folders that can be modifiied to taste, zipped for backup and moved to wherever works for you. Sorta saves the step of unzipping to a new folder to fix vanity folders and such. Just have to zip it up for backup when done. Oh, and probably tell connect that you've unistalled it after you've done what you needed to since that'd likely leave an empty folder where it expects to find something.  About the only issue would be not having the metadata one gets from DIM, but if you're not bothering with the Smart Content, that's usually not an issue, I think.)

    ...it is sort of akin to the approach MS has taken with Win 10.  They assumed because the "average" user doesn't or rarely update(s) his/her system, they have to implement a mandatory update policy so that even power users (such as myself) are not given the choice to choose which updates to install.

    The group policy editor allows power users such as yourself to override the factory policy and update on your own terms.  I use this on my Windows 10 laptop.  This also prevents auto reboots from happening at the worst of times.  One caveat, however:  You must have Windows 10 higher than "home" version.  But as you say, you're a power user so I would surmise that you probably would.

    ...actually not as I have 7 Home, but do as much as I can with it  In the XP days was a huge power user (which is why I still love that OS).  If I updated now, I'd get 10 Home which like you mention gives me no controil over auto updating (or have to pay for the "upgrade" to Pro and then I might as well just purchase an OEM of 7 Pro).

    As I understand from the tech sites I frequent, the workgroup option only allows for rejecting "optional", not security updates and it's the latter I am concerned about as there have been bugs in them which caused instabilities on people's systems. I am also the only one on my system as I live alone so it really doesn't make sense to set up a "workgroup" as there are no other users.

    The only edition of 10 that allows the same update setting flexibility of 7 and 8.1 is Enterprise, however, I do not own a company, have a server, or employees to justify the high cost.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    kyoto kid said:
     

    The only edition of 10 that allows the same update setting flexibility of 7 and 8.1 is Enterprise, however, I do not own a company, have a server, or employees to justify the high cost.

    You don't need Enterprise.  I am using 10 Pro and have enough flexibility to download and reboot on my terms.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,854

    ..we should move this discussion to the Win 10 Auto Upgrade thread.so as not to further derail it.

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994

    I see the new freebie is Daz Connect-only again, only this time I think it is a genuine tester product: http://www.daz3d.com/make-a-wish-props

    Not interested personally.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    edited February 2016

    It is a pity,

    because it is pretty ...

    very much so.

     

    *rubs the lamp*

    I am wishing for a non encrypted freebie!

    Does it work???

    Is it non encrypted now???

    Do you give it back (without "buying" it before) if it does not work???

    LOL

    Post edited by Kerya on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203

    OK I asked this once before and it was ignored, so I will ask it again. Why didn't daz consider different and less invasive and possibly more passive methods of going after pirates? Instead of DRM why didn't they consider adding an encoded serial number to the file itself when it was downloaded? It could have been done without telling anyome and would have given daz the ability to track the unique serial number back to the purchaser once the file was found to be on ware sites? Instead they went with something that they knew would cause their customers to jump up and down. Why?

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    shadowhawk1 said:

    OK I asked this once before and it was ignored, so I will ask it again. Why didn't daz consider different and less invasive and possibly more passive methods of going after pirates? Instead of DRM why didn't they consider adding an encoded serial number to the file itself when it was downloaded? It could have been done without telling anyome and would have given daz the ability to track the unique serial number back to the purchaser once the file was found to be on ware sites? Instead they went with something that they knew would cause their customers to jump up and down. Why?

    Welllllll, if somebody gets his/her computer hacked and the files are showing up at warez sites ... who is the culprit?

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203
    Kerya said:
    shadowhawk1 said:

    OK I asked this once before and it was ignored, so I will ask it again. Why didn't daz consider different and less invasive and possibly more passive methods of going after pirates? Instead of DRM why didn't they consider adding an encoded serial number to the file itself when it was downloaded? It could have been done without telling anyome and would have given daz the ability to track the unique serial number back to the purchaser once the file was found to be on ware sites? Instead they went with something that they knew would cause their customers to jump up and down. Why?

    Welllllll, if somebody gets his/her computer hacked and the files are showing up at warez sites ... who is the culprit?

    Really? If someone hacks your computer you really think that they are going to be more interested in posting your studio download files on ware sites over getting your credit card and other more lucrative information? And jsut how many people KEEP their downloaded zip files on their main computer?

This discussion has been closed.