Making Clothing tutorial(s) - Those Pesky Sleeves [New Links]
Catherine3678ab
Posts: 8,010
Nothing super special if you are an old hand at this, this introduction covers a few basics: things like how to make a basic shader, use of the Hexagon bridge, some detailing on how to use Hexagon to make morphs, ALSO dForce can be used in some cases to help with making morphs -- these morphs of which I speak are for pJCMs. Includes a shopping list of 3 super helpful products sold at Daz3D., etc. I have other tutorials already available that cover pJCMs etc in more detail, this tutorial is basic [i.e. short].
Sharecg link All Sharecg links have been retired: New Link [Google Drive] An Introduction to Making Clothing for Daz Studio [n.b. this is not a modelling course]
As I make more tutorials on this topic, I plan to add them to this thread. While I do not mind questions and/or some better ideas or solutions on topic I ABSOLUTELY FORBID ALL TALK OF BLENDER. Thank you.
Making Clothing for Daz Studio, part 2, making pJCMs
Making Clothing for Daz Studio, part 3, making character shape morphs
Those Pesky Sleeves {Making corrective morphs to be controlled by the generated morphs}
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Comments
Oh I look forward to this.
Another thing I didn't know I needed until you posted it. Thank you! And here I was going, DS to Hexagon and back is such a pain.... Page 1, here's how to set up the bridge. Perfect!
Thank you! I had put Hexagon in moth balls for a while... I may have to consider dusting it off again.
Happy to see people are still interested in Hexagon, I find it very handy.
This time around making pJCMs I'm discovering that while the 'reverse shape' is necessary not to be dialing in twice the amount of "other" morphs [mouth, navel], setting to "0" the "delete" morph, then making the correction morph ... save that, then test it again. I don't recall this issue before so I don't know if it has something to do with the clothing piece or there's a change I missed the notice on, sometimes, in loading a fresh clothing piece, the morph has a surprize that requires fixing. So some of these morphs are having to be done twice :-( Also, Daz Studio is remembering the old morph {I guess like it remembers old textures}, so I've had to actually close D/S and open it again, reload the scene and then everything worked fine. We'll get there!
Also via the Edit > Preferences, there's a check box to uncheck ... the one for calling "home" to check for news. Thing is the page it is calling for has been 404 for years now. So there's no sense in having it call "home."
Thanks Catherine, looks pretty comprehensive so far. I think. I do need something like this. My only attempt at doing clothing so far didn't work out very well, and my character felt she was exposing more than she appreciated (the slightly NSFW image is here: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/gallery/sort-this-out-immediately-/3039124/)
Maybe I'll have to try to get on with Hexagon. So far, Hexagon & I seem to be incompatible, which is odd. I spend most of my working life on pro 3D software (SolidWorks) and simply can't get how Hexagon works. It seems deeply irrational and totally back to front. It's very frustrating. And the 'B' word modeller is prevented from running on my PC by the AV software, as is 'B4Artists' (the one that has a useable user interface).
Regards,
Richard.
Yeah, forbid blender. Wait, what? You mad! Could at least use a stable program like Carrara. Sorry, hats off to anyone doing work with hexagon, but that program is bugged. It suffers some sort of data corruption making some modeling files unusable. Use the mirror tool for too long and the software forgets to update the mirrored side. All bad juju in my book!
I know Arki uses Hexagon and I've got some of her video demos. It does weird stuff while she's doing her demos. So, yeah, some great modeling tools in Hex but that program needs some love and attention that is not happening. Also, the UV maps are based on screen resolution. MIndboggling that people willingly put up with that.
ANyway, I'll check out the tutorial, Catherine. I'm sure it's outstanding and the information will be applicable in any 3D modeling program. Thank you for your hard work and generosity. :)
You're welcome. fyi once upon a time both programs had about the same number of bugs, that being about 250. That particular version was updated and I don't know of any bug counts atm. Yes the program used to be sold [not free] and people over the years have spent many hours learning how to use it. Indeed for ANY modeller one is going to be spending many hours in learning how to use it. That's life in 3D ;-) As some know, upon occasion those nice people on the Moon send me a bit of information, and what they sent concerning Hexagon, got my posts removed in the Hexagon forum as a particular somebody blew up. So, consider that negative talk about this beautiful fantastic "couldn't possibly have anything wrong with the coding" software is not welcome lest that particular somebody blows up again, 'k, thank you. I spent about one year determined to unravel the layman's code of which buttons to push in which order to make the program work, somehow. Certain buttons did not play out correctly, and so I do not tend to tell people to use them. Years ago somebody was complaining that they didn't like being told [my paraphrase] to do "A + B + C = success" -- they wanted to know alternative ways also and make up their own minds in how to use Hexagon. There are 26 letters in the alphabet ... if people want to spend years figuring out alternative ways to do what "A + B + C = success" will do, they are free to, but yes if one has that kind of time, there is another program whose interface has improved immensely in the past few years and their time for figuring out alternatives could be better spent there ;-) BUT IMHO, "nothing" beats that priceless bridge between Daz Studio and Hexagon. Sometimes Hexagon can be used to create files that will work better for projects in Daz Studio when used as a "middle" utility. i.e. D/S to Hexagon to Sculptris to Hexagon to D/S. Sculptris can make uvmaps :-) And so can Headus' UVLayout [the is a free version but it requires reinstallment every now and then].
There is one element of Hexagon which allegedly works for some however on my systems it has never workly well enough to be viable in any project, and that is for painting textures. It bleeds the colours all over the place. So for 3D painting another program is required for a more pleasurable experience. I love 3DCoatTextura for painting textures. If one has 3DCoat one does not need to buy Textura because it is basically one of the rooms of 3DCoat stripped out to fly on its own.
By the by, I am using the stable 32bit version of Hexagon, NOT the 64bit beta.
There is one known glitch which I think is on Daz Studio's side but other's think is on Hexagon's side BUT whichever program it is that is causing this to happen, be aware that it happens. When using Daz Studio to open Hexagon, DO NOT CLOSE DAZ STUDIO. Closing Daz Studio will result in the closure of Hexagon as well. Ergo, if working on a big project transferred from D/S, in Hexagon "save as" the project file, then immediately "save" that project file. "Save as" only names the project, "save" actually saves it. While continuing to work on large projects, "incre save" frequently, now and then doing another "save as" - and maybe into a nested subfolder ... Hexagon USUALLY reports when it's got a kerfuffle happening BUT not always.
Slightly yes lol ... Good News! That can be fixed in Daz Studio :-) See the section in the tutorial where the weight map is removed - do like that around the neckline. The neckline will then hold the garment on the figure :-)
How Hexagon works: I think it helps if one does not expect it to work logically. There is how you would do something, there is how I would do something, and THEN there is how Hexagon does whatever. It is possible to do quite a lot with Hexagon providing one goes along with how Hexagon wants to do whatever. It does make mesh that can work very nicely in D/S.
Might have to "downgrade" to 32-bit version and see what I see ;)
Yeah, over here the 64bit beta totally won't deal with uvmaps, just freezes. Can't even "look at them" without issues, so it's uninstalled and not coming back.
Thank you.
You're all very welcome, part 2 has atm some 60+ images in the editing basket ;-)
Good News with regards to the vanishing dForce Weight Brush, the entire scene does not have to be reset, apparently one can delete the existing weight on thing, apply a new dForce modifier AND then Create a new dForce weight node, and a new map for it, and all the work is right there, and so is the brush :-)
For our dear friend who has a passion for the 'other' modeller, it does have an ability to 'sew cloth together' which sadly Hexagon does not. To actually model clothing, yes one can in Hexagon; however for those seeking to "sew" clothing and are not into MD, here are a set of videos on said process in that 'other' program. For one's own use there are some .obj files sold at a resource art station which were made using MD. When reading descriptions be careful that the .obj files are actually included, not all do. A single layer quads would be awesome too but is seldom the case -- so they can be a lot of work to set up for "making clothing" with for Daz Studio, however the styles speak for themselves. There are starter suits available at several locations however I will put a plug for the Puppet mesh because it turns out to be an excellent mesh to start clothing with.
Cheers and thanks, Catherine :D
You're welcome ;-)
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When I was making the first tutorial, everything was looking fine at the time with the new pJCMs. However as I continued on it became apparent that D/S was holding onto some memory of the first morph it had used [like it does with textures], and/or I did something quirky, so "reverse deformations" yes ... but dial out the morph which we've marked 'delete' ... make the new morph, reset the figure pose, make sure the 'delete' morph is reset to '0' ... then select the clothing and save the new morph. Then delete the clothing from the scene and reload a fresh one. Pose the figure again and the new morph hopefully will look correct. If it doesn't, then close D/S, open D/S, reload the figures and check the pose again. ALSO, if using dForce for a drape to start the new morph with, after sending it over the bridge to Hexagon, in D/S delete the garment and load a fresh one. The idea is we want the dForce drape plus the work done in Hexagon to all be part of the new morph.
In testing dForce drapes on clothing WITH pJCMs, using the timeline, yes, the pJCMs are dialed in as the pose progresses and drapes accordingly :-)
Making pJCMs I've decided is not a whole lot of fun. But the end result is worth the work, yes.
Yes, it sounds like pJCMs are a challenge.
I watched a whole bunch of the Other Program sewing videos and found the content very interesting. Thanks again for that!
You're quite welcome Torquinox, hope you can master that :-)
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As for D/S's morph memories, made a discovery ... IF we have saved a pJCM, then decide we don't want that one and rename it "delete" and bring in a new morph, that can work fine provided the new morph has the exact name as the "delete" used to have. However if there is no new morph being made for the old name, and let's say one saves "delete" thinking it will overwrite the old morph -- therein lies the problem. It does not. One will have two morphs that do the same thing! So if one wants to delete a bad morph and isn't right away making a new replacement morph, then with D/S closed, dig into the data folder and manually delete the unwanted morphs. Also, if one has just named the old morph "delete" and saves it, load a fresh clothing piece, one will find "delete" is still there being dialed in. Somewhere in the background there are morph connectors that we are not accessing which is okay ... we just have to becareful that the morphs we think are working, truly are.
And I made another "leap in logic" for how to achieve a desired pJCM ... and for that we'll all just have to wait for the tutorial to come out :-)
AND in watching over some favourite shows of many, I saw the PERFECT clothing piece to make after all this :-)
Something to look forward to :)
W/respect to the sewing tutorials, the technique is completely reliant on cloth simulation and there are some aspects to the process that don't seem DS compatible. Also, there are some nuances of clothing fabrication that seem a bit beyond what the tutorials I've seen can offer - possibly beyond what Blender can do. I'm not sure what the answer may be to some of what I've observed. Some things presented for Blender work best in Blender. In all cases I've seen, transferring the results to other applications is not even a consideration. And I think making the resulting garments work with larger characters may cause other problems - Larger characters may actually need larger garments with a higher poly count and other modifications in order to achieve proper fit. It's kind of like what you find in a Big & Tall or Plus-Size store - More surface area requires more cloth in order to fit properly.
I appreciate the feedback, thank you.
So, after you have 'sewn' some 'cloth' together, can that alone be exported out as .obj?
Yes, that part should be no problem, but these are the limitations:
1) Many examples request the use of solidify modifier to give the cloth proper weight. This is a lot like the Thickener plugin. The problem in DS is, that extra layer of polys has a habit of poking through the top layer of polys, especially with use of mesh smooth to aid fit and prevent poke-through.
2) The garment is a grouped object made of multiple "pieces of cloth." The sew seams will definitely become split points when posing the figure in DS unless the garment is made into a single mesh.
3) Pockets and surface details are not intuitive or in any way explicitly supported. THis is a cool feature of Marvelous Designer, but I have no idea or even any way of testing how an MD garment would behave in DS.
Besed on all this, I think, if the goal is to use the garment on Daz figures in DS, it's better to model the garment using conventional means and apply d-force as desired or required to obtain interesting and believable cloth deformation in DS.
MD objects that are not exported from MD properly for D/S, fall to pieces, seize the program and generally speaking are more work than their worth. IF one has time, and is lucky to acquire a half decent single layer, welded, no stitches, quad mesh, then one can spend the day having fun making a new clothing piece for their figure. And oh yes, said .obj need to have been exported from MD using a proper G8 base -- for some reason some arrive "not quite right" - they'll be too narrow or something and next to impossible to make fit the figure. This is such as easy fix in MD that if anybody acquires such, ask the creator of the mesh for a fix or money back yah. If the model is not welded, has loose stitches, etc. when draped, it will of course fall apart, blow up, become polygoo just like any other mesh would.
Okay so for the set of limitations, 1) don't use that thickener ;-) 2) JUMP UP AND DOWN, JUMP AND DOWN, HEXAGON TO THE RESCUE {sorry, couldn't help myself} In Hexagon one can weld loose pieces into one group; and then one can weld the seams together :-) 3) Would need to be welded to garment and while technically such details can be, if there are too many, these would choke the program(s) and be nowhere near as effective as using normals and the like for stitch illusions.
So, it's safe to say that MD is not a magic elixir for making ultra-realistic Daz clothes. Good to know. It seems Every known approach inflicts a certain amount of pain on the would-be 3D clothier.
Not a magic one for sure. Like any program, takes some dedication to learning how to use it for whichever purpose intended.
Sounds like Hexagon is helpful for solving MD problems, so cheers to that!
Actually I suspect that most if not everybody who uses MD for D/S, also has Zbrush ;-)
Could be, and it makes sense. But I've no intention of starting with any of that.
Here's a "make something in less than 5 minutes in Hexagon" challenge!
Here's my "make something" - could become a skirt, could become a lampshade, have fun :-)
My biggest draw to Hexagon is that it is free, and the menus/controls are easy to use.
Blender the learning curve is so high. Maybe it's because I've reached my mid-40s and my brain doesn't adapt to new things easily anymore. I feel like I need to take a class to learn it!
Carrara is $150 or something, which is great if you're making stuff for sale, you might recoop that money. I won't, and I choose to spend my money on things like Photoshop (because alternatives like Gimp also have a sucky interface, IMO).
I used to use Maya when I got a free copy from somewhere, but now it's expensive.
Basically I put up with bugs because I'm cheap and my brain is lazy :-)