Megah and Swimsuit for G3/G8 - problems
daveso
Posts: 7,749
Just picked this up and trying it out
https://www.daz3d.com/megah-and-swimsuit-for-genesis-3-and-8-female
When I try to add a color to the swimsuit, the character figure disappears. the image shows default swimsuit color.
Also, how , in the smart content, do I know which is for G8 or G3 ??? or do I load G8 or G3 and then add the materials?
Then, when I add eyeliner or lip color nothing shows in the display..it does render with eyeliner and chosen lip color but it throws off the character development
Also, the brows rendered some sort of reddish color ... not sure why that is but the product page looks brown or dark brown.
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What do you have selected?
when i was applying makeupos and eyelashes, i had the character selected, and then tried the head..with same results. ..i did get the swimsuit to work, i found a selection for that withing the character. ... but overall the character
there are 4 MAT files ... two appear the same, but one of them gives an error ... so I think that is for whatever G3 or G8 ..but I dont know exactly which one is active.
hmm..something amiss... i added hair, and now the complete render is blank ... and renders really fast as if nothing is in the camera .... or in the scene ... but there it is... wonkie stuff going on.
It looks like a lot of visible seams too. I just got her but haven't downloaded it yet.
something just isnt right with it overall...or else I'm totally screwed up..very possible ... but i will try it a few more times. I dont understand the way it is set up with no labeling of what skin is for what ... some give an error when applying. and some do not show changes when applied. it wouldn't be too bad to wait until render to see how it looked if I had a fast machine, but I dont .... and for sure she does not look like she does in the promo images.
The presets that give errors are most likely the G8F ones, since those are usually saved with a reference to the base figure, whereas G3F ones weren't. This also seems to be a good example of why I don't use Smart Content; it's only as good as the metadata provided.
I bought Megah, so I brought her into DS and tested things. I did find an "issue" with the Tattoo options for both G3 and G8. When you apply the Tattoos, they do not update the face materials. I believe this is by design, and not a bug.
First, understand the difference between the two material options for the character. The 01 materials use the PBR Metallicity/Roughness option for Base Mixing, whereas the 02 materials use Weighted. The textures for either Base Mixing are the same, both the inked and clean textures.
There are two sets of eyeshadow options as well, 9 color options for each Base Mixing option, (as well as a remove makeup for each Base Mixing option.) If you apply the tattoos after applying your makeup options, updating the face would remove your work.
So if you apply Skin 01 to your character, and then apply Tattoos 02, the face will continue to be 01. And vice-versa.
The eyeshadow options change texture maps for the face and will show up in the viewport when your Draw option is Texture Shaded, Wire Texture Shaded or Cartoon Shaded., as well the Iray option.
The lip colors are created by changing values for Translucency, which is why those changes do not show up until using an Iray Draw in the viewport, or rendering the image. Both Translucency Color and The SSS Reflectance Tint are is modified, The eyeliner options use the Diffuse Overlay settings, which is why they don't show up until using an Iray Draw or rendering.
As annoying as you may find that, using these settings instead of images gives you incredible flexibility. The eyeliner is black by default, but you can change that to any color you need by changing the Diffuse Overlay Color. And you can tweak the lip colors the same way, by changing the Translucency Color and/or SSS Reflectance Tint for the Lips material zone.
Overall, I find Megah to be a nice character. And I thank Anain for making her available as both a G3 and G8 character.
ETA: I did not notice seams on either G3 or G8, other than between the face and torso when the mismatched option for the tattoos was applied.
Edit: Made corrections above. The Lip color settings do not vary the Translucency Color, but I was tinkering, and I did change it. More testing, and I realized the presets keep the same TC throughout.
It sounds like you're seeing all the presets at once... I'm to the point where I prefer to open a character in the Smart Content tab, under Products, rather than files. I open the product for the character and have access to everything right there. And when you drill-down to Materials for Megah, you'll find G3 and G8 listed separately under Iray. G8 uses hierarchical material settings to load materials for both the figure and the anatomical Eyelashses at the same time. G3 doesn't have separate eyelashes, so full-load presets for G8 with cause errors when applied to G3, (any characters, male or female.)
You can also separate the G3 from G8 materials via the Content Library, locating Megah under Genesis 8 Female and then the materials. (Or Genesis 3 Female, if you're using G3.)
Then make sure all the materials you use are for either skin 01 or skin 02, depending on which one you loaded. The other presets will indicate 1 or 2 if there's a difference in the settings.
Looking at your original image in the OP, it looks like all the materials are using the skin 02, weighted settings except for the torso. I wasn't able to duplicate that. When I loaded the tattoos, either G3 or G8, the skin materials for arms and legs were loaded at the same time as the torso.
I am having MAJOR problems with her... When I click on the swimsuit, the character disappears. When I click undo the swimsut, I'm left with the second image. Also there is a distinct line around her lipstick, Terrible quality control!
I'm using the latest version of the Beta, (which is also the latest released version of DS.)
I'm not having issues with the character disappearing when clicking on the swimsuit. The swimsuit is a geoshell and loads with all materials zones and Selectable set to Off. All zones but the torso use a black texture in Cutout Opacity to hide the zone. Make the swimsuit Selectable and if you click anywhere on the figure, the geoshell is selected. Set Selectable back to Off for the swimsuit and the figure is selectable again.
There is no "undo swimsuit" option, though I can see why anyone would think so. It's actually a reset of the default materials, but with the B&W ttreatment as on the various "remove" presets, it sure looks like it should remove the swimsuit. Maybe Daz can change that. Anyway, if you select the figure and then apply the "Megah Swinsuit Color Default" preset, it will apply the geoshell materials to the figure, (they have all the same material zones!) That's why your attempts to remove the swimsuit are resulting in Megah "disappearing." In fact, you'll get the same results with any ot the swimsuit materials if you've got the figure selected instead of the swimsuit. (After she disappears, go to the scene tab and hide the swimsuit!)
Anyway, to remove the swimsuit, just delete the geoshell.
As for the lips... I've read many people complain about lines around the lips on many different characters. The issue there is the material zone for the lips extends a bit beyond the actual lip. When settings are different for the lips than for the rest of the face, this mismatch occurs. Depending on the settings it can be really obvious or barely discernable. With Megah, what you are seeing are different settings for SSS Reflectance Tint and the Dual Lobe parameters affecting the skin around the lips differently than for the rest of the face. Even when the PA provides textures for the different lip colors, using the settings to create shiny lips, (like lipstick or lip gloss,) is still going to affect that area.
Because I was talking about making changes to the settings, I set out to show what I meant. Here are four images that go from just presets to making changes in those settings.
The "control" image, so to speak: Megah with the Skin 01 settings, Lips 04, Eyeshadow1 08, and Eyeliner 04. Megah is wearing Bella Blue hair, default, and the collar from Keeper of the Sun Outfit.
In the second image, I've modified the Translucency colors for the lips and the Diffuse Overlay color for the eyeliner.
In the thrid image, I've turned on the Diffuse Overlay Weight Squared setting. This made the purple eyeliner under her eyes less prominent.
And in the last image, I've set Diffuse Overlay Weight to only 0.8.
I really enjoy working with Megah, and I'm baffled with the torso issue both @daveso and @Wonderland are seeing.
I did do one more image, which I put up in the Galleries, and call Portrait In Lavender. In this image, I've added to the last image above, making the eyelashes the same color as the eyeliner, and modifying the lip materials to have a light blue color to start, with my lavender Translucency colors. (Plus a few other things, like postwork, not related to Megah's skin or makeup.)
I'll admit, I'm not having any problems with her either... she works great with no visible seams. Regarding skin seams, I found in the past that using a low Mesh Resolution setting on the model sometimes gave me seams, but when I up it to 4, 5, or higher, they are not visible... some lights can also make them more defined in certain scenarios.
With the swimsuit causing the body to disappear, I found the first time I used her that I hadn't added the actual swimsuit prop/clothing, and only clicked on the colour options. That caused her body to disappear... Undo, and then add the swimsuit, then choosing a colour resolved the disappearing model.
I don't use Smart Content, so I am not experiencing the exact same issues as the OP, but I do find her a fun addition to the runtime.
Thanks for your posts on this character. I'm really lost by this explanation, as I have no idea what you are saying here, being a novice at DS. perhaps she is too advanced for my expertise. I will take a look at product vs. fils though..that may be good. "
Okay. The first lengthy explanation can stand for others who have been using Daz Studio longer.
For you, and other newbies whose eyes glaze over at my previous post, here is a less technical explanation.
Iray materials have three Base Mixing modes. Most products use one mode throughout and you don't have to think about it. Anain used two of the three on skin settings: "PBR Metallicity/Roughness" and "Weighted." You don't need to know what they do, or how they work. You only need to know how to tell the presets from one apart from the other, and which presets aren't affected by the Base Mixing mode.
Material presets that are Base Mixing dependent indicate which with a 01 or 02 designation, but the color options for things like makeup and fingernails have traditionally used the zeroNumber designation already, so Anain tags a 1 or a 2 at the end of Eyeshadows to indicate which skin they go with. That can be a bit confusing until you know what you are looking for. (Just so you know, I didn't realize this at first either.)
Megah !All Maps 01
Megah !Tattoo Material 01 Apply
Megah !Tattoo Material 01 Remove
Megah Eyeshadows1 01
Megah Eyeshadows1 02
Megah Eyeshadows1 03
Megah Eyeshadows1 04
Megah Eyeshadows1 05
Megah Eyeshadows1 06
Megah Eyeshadows1 07
Megah Eyeshadows1 08
Megah Eyeshadows1 09
Megah Eyeshadows1 Remove
Megah Natural Lips 01
Megah !All Maps 02
Megah !Tattoo Material 02 Apply
Megah !Tattoo Material 02 Remove
Megah Eyeshadows2 01
Megah Eyeshadows2 02
Megah Eyeshadows2 03
Megah Eyeshadows2 04
Megah Eyeshadows2 05
Megah Eyeshadows2 06
Megah Eyeshadows2 07
Megah Eyeshadows2 08
Megah Eyeshadows2 09
Megah Eyeshadows2 Remove
Megah Natural Lips 02
The rest of the Presets make changes in such a way, they do not change the Base Mixing mode:
Megah Eyelashes
Eye Colors: Megah Eyes 01 thru 09; Megah Eyes Default
Eyeliner Styles: Megah Eyeliner 01 thru 06; Megah Eyeliner Remove
Nail Colors: Megah Nails 01 through 09; Megah Nails Default
SSS Settings: Megah SSS Chromatic Mode; Megah SSS Mono Mode
Lip Colors: Megah Lips 01 thru 09 (Presets for going back to the "natural" lip color, however, are Base Mixing dependent.)
Megah (or other G3F/G8F character,) must be selected when you apply the Wearable(s) Megah !Swimsuit preset. But the Swimsuit must be selected when you apply the swimsuit color presets. When you put your character in other clothing, a dress for example, you cannot apply any material presets to the dress until you select the dress. The same is true of the swimsuit. (And as you've seen, applying the swimsuit material preset to the figure doesn't work. Spectacularly.)
Okay, a bit technical here: The swimsuit uses a Geometry Shell. A "geoshell" is a duplicate of the mesh and lies over the top of an object. It also has all the same material zones. You can create a geoshell for any object by selecting that object in the Scene tab and going to the Main Menu across the top of Daz Studio, clicking on Create and then clicking on New Geometry Shell, (about half-way down the resulting drop-down menu.) The new geoshell will have 3DL, (think, not Iray,) shaders by default, and be set to 50% opacity. If you want to understand how the swimsuit works, I recommend you start with a new scene and a simple prop, like a sword, (everybody has at least one sword, don't they?) and create a geoshell for that prop. Then play around and see what you can do with the geoshell. (Convert using Iray Uber Base, change the Mesh Offset in parameters, apply shaders, Turn Off material zones in Parameters, and so.)
I hope this is easier to follow and understand.
thank you very much. yes ..it is starting to make sense. I tend to dive in without learning details, and then learn as I go ..so for my DS use now I am jumping forwARD A LOT. much to learn, but each trouble, like this one, brings together more knowledge.
I'm using the latest version of DS and when I clicked on the default swimsuit, the girl disappeared. Undo was from the file menu, which left part of her skin pink, her eyes a changed color, and other parts of her skin grey. Usually when I click undo, it undoes the last action, but this created a mess. Clicking on the default swimsuit makes the girl disappear...
Also, that closeup is the default lips. I didn't change any settings. This is from the smart content pane on a Mac... I'll try again and see what happens.
OK, I guess last time I clicked on the default material, rather than the default swimsuit so that is working. But this is her default lips, they definetely have a line...
And her face is a different color than the rest of her. The settings for the face are different from the rest of her body!
Face settings:
Rest of body settings:
@Wonderland, In the image above with the face a different color, you've applied the Skin 01 materials, (either directly, or via the Tattoo Remove preset,) but you've selected an eyeshadows preset for Skin 02. Take a look at the lists I posted above in a previous post, (either scroll up a bit, or click on this link to open the post in a new window/tab.)
As for the "line" around the lips, this has been an ongoing complaint from many people since G3, though even more so since G8 with the Dual Lobe settings used to create the shiny on the lips. It really isn't the PAs messing up, but an issue of how to get the same settings on the bit of face included in the Lips material zone.
I have UV Tailor and used it to isolate the mesh for the material zone so I could attempt to get a better result for the lips than the default. I think these lips turned out very nice, but even with all my fussing, you can still make out the difference between the face material zone and the lip material zone.
First, here's the lips with the face template added via LIE, multiplication. Notice how much of the face is included? This is the source of the line around the lips!
Now here is my variation with the lips a darker pink and the template not included.
(These are Megah's lips, mainly because that's who I already had in the viewport.)
My changes minimized the problem, but it's not completely gone. Nor do I think the problem can be completely fixed with settings and maps. As long as the Lips material zone includes face materials, there are going to be settings for the lips that affect that strip of mesh differently than the settings for the face.
In the case of the default lips, shown in your image, the line is caused because the Dual Lobe settings are different for the two material zones. They are glossier for the lips than the face, so the strip of mesh that's the face in the Lips material zone is getting the same gloss as the lips. Mask that out, and then the face isn't getting any Dual Lobe settings, which will be just as obvious as the Face materials zones does use the Dual Lobe settings. And the gray mask I used outside the lips isn't totally effective as more than just the Weight setting is different.
OK, thanks, it's very confusing the way everything is set up, I didn't realize there were eye shadows for two skin colors! And I've been experimenting myself with geoshells. They are very cool!
DS is very deep, I guess. I'm still at the "make pushbutton art" stage, but DS demands a bit more to achieve decent looking renders.
Oh how I know that feeling! It hasn't been that long since I was there. (Looking at my images, I'm sure there are some real artists who think I'm still there! lol)
What is important is whether or not you like what you create. Please yourself. If you keep coming back to look at your own images, pleased with what you've accomplished, you're on the right track.
i just need to get past portraits for awhile ... but they're simple and a great way to learn ...