Dynamic Clothing

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  • TooncesToonces Posts: 570

    I'm waiting on a long animation, so figured I'd start a cheat sheet. Take these suggestions with a huge grain of salt as I'm new to daz3d and vwd. I'm also writing this from memory so the button names may be a little off.

    VWD Cheat Sheet

    • Watch all videos by Biscuits on Renderosity and anything regarding 'VWD' or 'Virtual World Dynamics' on YouTube.
    • VWD comes with a PDF manual. Read it if you dare. It's huge and a little outdated and highly technical in parts. The videos mentioned above (and forums) are better.
    • Create a custom action for Start VWD script so it is easy to access in DAZ3D.
    • Utilities (optional) - Delete exchange files. Reset defaults. NOTE: This is optional. I do it for every import into VWD to avoid errors.
    • For low poly (i.e., simple/short/old) clothing, simply Start VWD. Click Host List. Pick Use Springs Reduction. Pick Collision Object (usually just the figure/person). Hit Collision (glance at the dynamic params - most likely you don't want to change them) and Collision again. (Note if you change the dynamic params, you have to hit the generate button). Pick Cloth Object. Hit Cloth button twice as you did with Collision. Vert tools. Select verticies on parts you want to remain fixed. Vert Group. Nail to Collision. Scene viewer (to make screen big). Simulate static. Optionally simulate dynamic if you have an entire animation. Stop sim when you're happy. Send to host. Your new object will appear (it actaully appears as soon as the cloth imports into VWD) and the original is hidden.
    • For high poly clothing, use decimator (see daz3d store). Follow same steps as low poly clothing from there.
    • For altering, delete the VWD object in your scene. Unhide the original object. Re-import collision and clothing into VWD and do it all over again.
    • Exit VWD after every 'send to host'. This is optional, but I feel it helps keep me from seeing errors.
    • When watching a Sim, you can click the 'view stress' (sp) button to see which verts are turning red. IF they get too red, you may see poke through (even if nailed, though nailing is most important). To address the situation before poke through occurs: uncheck inertia and/or reduce gravity.
    • Fixed verticies - I never use this. I hear it takes less memory than nailing, but if your pose is changing (animation), you have to use nailing.
    • Vert Tool - I usually click the L to use lasso selection. I never click V to do 'one sided' selection. It seems to not select stuff I want. For cloth, Free Edges followed by 'simple' a few times is a quicky way to get things like belt area or waistband without using lasso. But I usually use lasso. Free Edges picks things like the bottom of pants too which I'd have to unselect.
    • Unselect/deselect - use ALT when your lasso'ing. To select multiple groups of stuff, use CTRL button (hold it down).
    • Nbr samples/nbr iterations/fast move - Use defaults. They're fine. You can bump to 10/8/3 if you want as mentioned in one tutorial, but ONLY for static sim. It takes WAY too long for a dynamic animation. It may be useful for static sims where you want more realism? (still not entirely sure how they help in spite of reading the manual).
    • Inertia - Love hate relationship with this one. I usually keep it checked by default. If i get a bunch of pokethru/tearing, I redo the entire sim. Checking/unchecking during the sim (for animations) can cause jerky animation of draping so I try to avoid that.
    • SHIFT - awesomification button! Just hold down shift and you can left-click to move your clothing all over the place. IT snaps back into place but useful for shifting the clothing as it sim's. You can also use it for animations on the last frame once the animation is complete.
    • Hair - similar to clothing. Pick collision. Click button twice. Pick hair. Click button twice. Now you get presented with a generate springs area (going by memory here). This is different from clothing. Try to pick a preset like G3 from the dropdown. That didnt' work for me (picked verticies on body). The goal of this part is to SELECT THE SCALP. So I just use good ole lasso. Then show hair verticies. Then generate springs. I *think* this process 'glues' the hair to the head. No idea really what it does. I've never seen my figure's hair 'fall out' as other folks have stated so perhaps I'm gluing it properly. Hair rigidify - for normal hair posing, you'll always want to go back to Vert Tool. Similar to clothing. Use lasso and pick the area of hair you want rigid (usually at top of scalp). Rigidify it (I think I use neighborhood of .3 as the param). Interestingly, you don't have to nail anything to collision from my experience. I think that's what the hair glue piece mentioned a few sentences ago accomplishes. Then start your static or dynamic sim.
    • M+ and MR - If you remember to do M+ when picking your scalp during the glue phase, you can then use it during the 'hair rigidify' phase (via MR) to quickly recall the selection. Then rigidify via neighboorhood. I suspect this just adds rigidity to the hair follicals a certain distance from those selected verticies. I usually forget to do M+ so use lasso.
    • SHIFT left click - works great for hair too! Flyaway strands can be made with ease.
    • Old hair - fit to person the way you want, then unparent it from figure if it doesn't appear in Host List.
    • Wet Hair - when picking hair dynamic params (before clicking the second big hair button), you can select to use vert extension instead of default (vert neighborhood). I think vert extension might be better for simulating wet hair. Also avoid rigidify. NOTE - I haven't tested this piece yet, just my musings since I'd like to make wet hair and cannot find any product by DAZ to accomplish it. There are specific wet hairs, but nothing generic to apply to any hair. If I figure out how to do it with VWD and make it shiny/wet looking, I'll let ya know.
    • Animated objects - these work great when sent back to DAZ...until you close and re-open the scene. The objects lose all their materials/shaders. And you can't just reapply them, especially for hair...it looks terrible. So, simply never exit the scene until done with render. Also, if you're rendering an animation (and your textures consume lots of memory), I recommend unchecking optix due to memory leak issues. I need to get the daz product that shows me which textures are hogging the memory, but I suspect it is the object files created by VWD...just a hunch.
    • Make sure you're done posing and animating your figure before you do any of the above with VWD. Otherwise you'll have to start over with the original object. None of the VWD objects are 'fitted' or follow the figure anymore.
    • Stop VWD script - you never need to use it. I sometimes click it before closing vwd...much like I click the close elevator button door knowing full well it likely does nothing whatsoever. VWD will stop itself automatically at end of dynamic sims.

    Ok, so that was longer than I expected. And now that I'm finished, I'm sure half of it is bad advice. :) But I'd like to hear what others are doing in their workflow (parmas, secrets, etc)...even if it's 'wrong'. Especially if you find a way to get shaders/materials to be remembered on VWD objects after closing and reopening a duf. Even with all the quirks, I love this tool and can't wait for the next version!

  • timmins.williamtimmins.william Posts: 11,366

    Another piece of advice for a few folks:

    If you have Dropbox or something similar pointed at your working files, turn off synching before using VWD. Having another program aggressively jumping in to manage temp files can be bad.

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 7,475

    Thanks so much for the cheat sheet Hav

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 537

    is there nobody working on MD plugin for dazstudio? Do we really need to wait until 2018 the optitex contract ends?
     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 14,997
    Fixme12 said:

    is there nobody working on MD plugin for dazstudio? Do we really need to wait until 2018 the optitex contract ends?
     

    Trade one expensive method for another, not quite as expensive one?

    A method that doesn't rely on any one particular clothing sim package would be much more preferable...and VWD doesn't rely on a specific clothing creation package.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,086
    edited January 4

    No knowledge of an MD plugin (I assume you mean Marvelous Designer) but I have an older version of MD (v2) and it works great with VWD to make and then drape/animate clothing. I work in Carrara, but the VWD program is the same for both, just a different interface program.

    P.S. Nice cheat sheet!  Very succinct and good advice.

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  • Fixme12 said:

    is there nobody working on MD plugin for dazstudio? Do we really need to wait until 2018 the optitex contract ends?

    Only the publishers of Marvellous Designer could make a plug-in for DS, possibly by working with Daz. Where do you get that the Optitex contract will expire in 2018?

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 8,676

    Wishlisted those two particular items....

    Are there 2 items that are like VWD?

    No, I wishlisted VWD and the bridge to Daz Studio for VWD.  You need both I believe.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,086

    VWD was originally designed to work with Poser, so for use with either Daz Studio or Carrara, you need to also purchase the appropriate bridge plugin by Philemot (Philemo on this site). I wouldn't be without it!

  • grinch2901grinch2901 Posts: 767

    Wishlisted those two particular items....

    Are there 2 items that are like VWD?

    No, I wishlisted VWD and the bridge to Daz Studio for VWD.  You need both I believe.

    Yup, you need both if you want to use it with Studio. Once you have them and learn to  use VWD, I suspect you will love them.  They allow renders that before we would tend to avoid, like people in long coats or skirts sitting, bedding that isn't perfectly made, et cetera. Extermely useful tool.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 8,676

    Wishlisted those two particular items....

    Are there 2 items that are like VWD?

    No, I wishlisted VWD and the bridge to Daz Studio for VWD.  You need both I believe.

    Yup, you need both if you want to use it with Studio. Once you have them and learn to  use VWD, I suspect you will love them.  They allow renders that before we would tend to avoid, like people in long coats or skirts sitting, bedding that isn't perfectly made, et cetera. Extermely useful tool.

    Its at the top of my wishlist.  I can't use 90% of the wonderful flowing dresses etc in anything but a standing pose without a very large amount of hard work

  • timmins.williamtimmins.william Posts: 11,366

    Note that it can still be hard to work with many dresses, particularly if they have decorations and whatnot that you have to (essentially) carefully glue in place.

    That said... for a number of common cases, particularly dress and robe related, it's INVALUABLE.

     

  • TooncesToonces Posts: 570

    And if it's a fairly recent dress, you'll likely need to purchase decimator [1] too. VWD has memory limits that can easily be hit by the G3 dresses unless you smash them to pieces with decimator. :)

    http://www.daz3d.com/decimator-for-daz-studio

  • timmins.williamtimmins.william Posts: 11,366

    There's also Instant Meshes, which is free, but I think destroys the UV map. (Whether that's an issue depends on what you are doing)

     

  • head waxhead wax Posts: 5,384

    thanks for the cheat sheet havsm

    that's very kind and helpful

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited January 5
    havsm said:

    And if it's a fairly recent dress, you'll likely need to purchase decimator [1] too. VWD has memory limits that can easily be hit by the G3 dresses unless you smash them to pieces with decimator. :)

    http://www.daz3d.com/decimator-for-daz-studio

    The ability to do that is why it's worth getting VWD even if you already have Marvelous Designer.  This is Bobbie25's Magna Hart on Genesis 3 Female and OOT Katherina Hair.  I used Select By Material and Rigidify to stiffen the metal and lacing.  I did have to sim the hair as cloth again, the hair preset's never worked for me.  The hair and dress are decimated.

    The MD people have said they're going to at some point add rigidity as a feature, so we can sim things with buttons and rings on them, etc., but they haven't yet.  Blender can, but Blender's cloth sim is slower than a pickle sinking in molasses.

    (And for the record, I spent much longer on the lighting and tweaking the skin than I did on the cloth sims...)

     

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 5,772

    You can also use VWD on cloth that you make yourself with the bridge to hexagon, or other modeler of choice.  Not just for clothing, but also for a towel on an uneven beach, a blanket on uneven terrain for a picnic, a throw on a sofa, etc.  I happen to use Carrara, but you can make your mesh in anything that you want.  I think PhilW's suit was made in Marvelous Designer in his example above, and rendered in Carrara with the VWD bridge.  Excellent work, PhilW.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited January 5
    diomede said:

    You can also use VWD on cloth that you make yourself with the bridge to hexagon, or other modeler of choice.  Not just for clothing, but also for a towel on an uneven beach, a blanket on uneven terrain for a picnic, a throw on a sofa, etc.  I happen to use Carrara, but you can make your mesh in anything that you want.  I think PhilW's suit was made in Marvelous Designer in his example above, and rendered in Carrara with the VWD bridge.  Excellent work, PhilW.

    I've done that also, in several promos now actually, but you get better results with an item whose textures were made by a professional over days rather than by flood-filling in a second.  Sometimes you can get by with piping (MD can generate that now) but sometimes there's just no reasonable substitute for painted stitches.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 4,692

    Does VWD work in Daz Studio or does one have to use Poser?

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 1,932
    edited January 5
    AllenArt said:

    Does VWD work in Daz Studio or does one have to use Poser?

    It will work in Daz Studio WITH the plugin made for Poser IF you also purchase the Daz Studio bridge :). So, if you use Poser you just need the plugin alone. If you want to use with DS you need that same plugin PLUS the Daz Studio bridge for it.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 4,692
    edited January 5
    AllenArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    Does VWD work in Daz Studio or does one have to use Poser?

    It will work in Daz Studio WITH the plugin made for Poser IF you also purchase the Daz Studio bridge :).

    Laurie

    Oh gosh, that on top of the price of VWD ...yeah. Pass. lol

    Here's hoping that a Daz PA can/will create a comparable product. It would be REALLY nice to get more natural looking clothing draping. 

    Thanks for the info, Laurie! :)

    Post edited by Divamakeup on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 1,932

    Kendall is workin on something he said, so I guess we'll all have to wait :P

    Laurie

  • MoranaMorana Posts: 254
    AllenArt said:
    AllenArt said:

    Does VWD work in Daz Studio or does one have to use Poser?

    It will work in Daz Studio WITH the plugin made for Poser IF you also purchase the Daz Studio bridge :).

    Laurie

    Oh gosh, that on top of the price of VWD ...yeah. Pass. lol

    Here's hoping that a Daz PA can/will create a comparable product. It would be REALLY nice to get more natural looking clothing draping. 

    Thanks for the info, Laurie! :)

    It's definitely frustrating that VWD is priced right out of my budget, especially with currency conversion on top of it.  I can still do dynamics with Poser and Genesis 2, but I want more!

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 1,932

    I managed to get them when one or both were on sale (I can't remember), so it wasn't quite as hard a hit ;). Watch out for sales and maybe you'll catch one :)

    Laurie

  • I've already used VWD but it's just so unpredictable. Clothe just suddenly disappear when you start the simulation, I might not use it at all or maybe just try it once in a while for clothes that need dynamics or movements.

  • I hope there's a good plug in in the future that does this.

  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,284

    The ability to do that is why it's worth getting VWD even if you already have Marvelous Designer.  This is Bobbie25's Magna Hart on Genesis 3 Female and OOT Katherina Hair.  I used Select By Material and Rigidify to stiffen the metal and lacing. 

    You did Select by Material and Rigidify in VWD? If so, how? (what buttons)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited January 5

    The ability to do that is why it's worth getting VWD even if you already have Marvelous Designer.  This is Bobbie25's Magna Hart on Genesis 3 Female and OOT Katherina Hair.  I used Select By Material and Rigidify to stiffen the metal and lacing. 

    You did Select by Material and Rigidify in VWD? If so, how? (what buttons)

    It's this dropdown that says "Selection By Material."  You pick a material from the dropdown, then hit the button that says "Rigidify" from the second pic.  You repeat this for each material you want to rigidify.

     

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  • kaotkblisskaotkbliss Posts: 2,284

    Oh sweet! that's easy :)

  • TooncesToonces Posts: 570

    Wow, that is cool! Learned a new trick. Thanks SY!

    Played with the Wind parameters tonight. See attached for an example with wind applied to hair, cape, and skirt. Note I messed up the hair with a shader beforehand so ignore that. Also, Aiden is jealous Skyler can fly. ;)

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