Hey all, those are very helpful answers, thank you.  Do the same rules apply if you are trying to use poses made for a newer generation on older figures too?  Like using Genesis2 poses on V4?

Thanks again!

G1 to V4 sure with former-DAZ now-Rendo PoseMaster. Probably this works for G2 to V4. For G3 backward I believe that Zev0 or Draagonstorm said "No" but can't find the thread. PoserMaster allows create templates between figures, it is probably that templates can be created between figures+shapes in G1, G2, Mill 3, and Mill 4 generations. However, I suspect that if Draagonstorm can't convert G3 to G2, PoserMaster also can't.

Wow!!! Thank you for pointing out PoseMaster!  I looked at it and there is a PoseMaster People Pack that will do these conversions:

- Genesis to/from Aiko 4, Hiro 4, Kids 4, Michael 4, Victoria 4
- Genesis to/from Aiko 3, David 3, Hiro 3, Laura, Luke, Maddie, Matt, Michael 3, Stephanie 3 Petite, Victoria 3
- Genesis to/from Stephanie, Millenium Girls and Millenium Boys
- Michael 4 to/from Michael 3
- Victoria 4 to/from Victoria 3
- Kids 4 to/from Matt and Maddie 3
- Generation 2, 3 and 4 poses can be transferred through Genesis e.g. V3 to Genesis to M4

(by the way  how could I make dimpled cheecks? is there a morph somewhere to be used?)

Morphs++ for Victoria 4 have two varieties: Cheeks Dimple and Cheeks Dimple Crease. 

Hey all, those are very helpful answers, thank you.  Do the same rules apply if you are trying to use poses made for a newer generation on older figures too?  Like using Genesis2 poses on V4?

Thanks again!

I've only tried on Victoria 4 - G1 poses work ok on V4 with only minor adjustments needed (mostly in the feet), G2 works somewhat but needs more adjustments. G3 doesn't work at all. 

I've found good success in exporting/re-importing clothing as OBJs then fitting as unsupported items with no projection template. Loss of morphs and rigging can be transferred back in through the transfer utility too.

I'd love to see a tutorial for newbies like me on how to do this! :D

1. Don't export to OBJ yet!

2. Without fitting/parenting the clothing item to your figure, use the built-in morphs, deformers, etc to approximate the fit to the figure. Doesn't matter if it's not exact; some parts can be fixed using mesh smoothing.

3. NOW we export as OBJ. Be sure to hide everything else aside from the clothing item. You can choose DAZ or Poser presets; it doesn't matter.

4. Re-import the OBJ using the same DAZ/Poser preset.

5. Fit the item to the figure in question. Choose unsupported and no projection map since we want to keep the current shape. The clothing item should now inherit the figure's bone structure.

6. Apply mesh smoothing as needed. You may want to re-export the mesh-smoothed version, re-import back as a morph or OBJ, then turn off mesh smoothing as it's not needed anymore.

And now...

- To get back the original morphs, first convert the new clothing OBJ back to a figure (Edit->Object->Rigging->Convert to Figure), then use the transfer utility to transfer the morphs from the original clothing. Be sure to click on Morph Targets and check "All" from Under Source.

- To get the custom bones back, SY has a bunch of tutorials with various methodologies:

http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Saving-Gen-4-Custom-Bones-on-Conversion-417250347

http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Custom-Bone-Rigs-G2F-to-Genesis-Convert-398192766

http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Keeping-Bones-On-TU-Conversion-Fast-Way-449218737

 

Oh awesome! Thank you! :D I've saved this and added it to my Daz tutorials and will be trying it out - I really appreciate you taking the time to explain how to do it! You rock!

Also keep in mind that this is pretty much the only way to re-use older generation stuff -- like Victoria/Aiko 3 clothing -- without mesh distortion due to the weight-map redistributions and re-projections. The V3 and A3 clones for Genesis don't work very well. There are, of course, 3rd party programs out there but this is my preferred way of doing it since it has a monetary expediture of exactly zero dollars :)

edit: I'll probably post a video of me doing this sometime in the future. Depends on how much time I have in the evenings now that I'm back from my summer break.

Hey, does anyone know what hair package was used on this model http://www.daz3d.com/belladonna-poses-for-victoria-7-volume-2?

Does the forum allow you to contact a seller directly?

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Genesis/Wardrobe/Swimwear

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Genesis_2_Female/Wardrobe/Swimwear

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Genesis_3_Female/Wardrobe#Swimwear

 

Goggles Retexturing these?

http://freezone.thefantasiesattic.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=672

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/enaut-airship-goggles-for-m4-and-v4/62878

 

The Swim cap is more difficult

V2 version: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/conforming-swimming-cap-for-victoria/16255

Posette (Poser4woman) https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/conforming-swimming-cap-with-strap-for-posette/15551

If you don't render from behind, the Bandana might work: http://www.daz3d.com/sg-headdresses-for-genesis

 

Thank you. Those could definitely work as swim goggles/a swim cap with some careful work.

Hello,

I just bought the Princess Asia (http://www.daz3d.com/princess-asia) outfit.  I know it's for Genesis (Victoria 5), but most of my products are Genesis 2.  I used the Genesis to Genesis 2 converter for the dress and part of the sleeves are attaching to the hip and left/right thigh.  Is there a way to prevent this from happening?  Attached below are pictures of the before and after and highlighted areas that are effected.

Thank you very much!

I see the same issue, if I use them with Genesis # - they work with older figures, such as Victoria 4. It may be that the product doesn't work with weight-mapped figures, I would open a support ticket so this can be looked into.

Did the \Runtime\Libraries\!DAZ\Victoria 4 folder get merged with thee xisting one? The files you show in the screenshot above look to be in the right place. It is better to use Install Manager rather than a manual install when troubleshooting, even if you are set on using manual installs otherwise.

I'm still a Victoria 4 fan, myself! Oh... you already knew that, didn't you! LOL

DB, Mihrelle and Danae are my favourite artists for Victoria; her eyes shape look more realistic than genesis imo, so I prefer to work on her to achieve realistic results

the face morphs and teeth are from  Mihrelle original, I adjusted the maps in carrara and ps only, really funny as you know

it says

Details

Eight Gorgeous Body Shapes to work with the Genesis 3, Aiko 7, Victoria 7, Gia 7, The Girl 7, and Olympia 7

 

I would think of that as an "and/or" situation   so it will work for you, as you say you have V7.

That would be cool. :D It's been a while since I was so excited about a new product. It might be worth getting and checking it out for myself to see what the morphs look like without the listed figures. I've only returned one item before so I doubt they'd be TOO mad at me if I had to return it if it doesn't work for me. 

it says

Details

Eight Gorgeous Body Shapes to work with the Genesis 3, Aiko 7, Victoria 7, Gia 7, The Girl 7, and Olympia 7

 

I would think of that as an "and/or" situation   so it will work for you, as you say you have V7.

it says

Details

Eight Gorgeous Body Shapes to work with the Genesis 3, Aiko 7, Victoria 7, Gia 7, The Girl 7, and Olympia 7

I know what it says...

But I've noticed several times I've come across product that says WITH something else and it turns out they aren't REQUIRED to make it work - reguardless of listing a certain item or items as requirements. I was hoping this product might be one of them. 

it says

Details

Eight Gorgeous Body Shapes to work with the Genesis 3, Aiko 7, Victoria 7, Gia 7, The Girl 7, and Olympia 7

It's hard to tell, as you can only see a small amount of her, but perhaps Kelly: http://www.daz3d.com/kelly-for-victoria-7

So a little history.  Using the Victoria 4 model I had a character I really enjoyed using who was a female version of Frankenstein's monster, basically a woman made up of stitched together parts.  From that time I have moved from Poser and V4 to DazStudio and G3F.  With that change now I feel like I want to recreate her for the new model.  I have done what I think is a good job so far and stitched together skin textures, bump maps, specular maps, and normal maps to give me a good looking character.  Once everythere there was right I decided that the two last things to do were to modify the normal maps to better convey the seams between parts and then to convey the stitches used to hold the parts together.

So at this point for this character I need to modify the Normal maps and then work on the textures to look right.  The problem I am having is that while I can export the character as an Obj and get it into the trial version of Zbrush I do need to load in either the bump map or texture so that I can see where I need to push down in the application to form a realistic seam.  Is there a way to load in those normal maps and textures for while I am working so I can really make everything look right?  I have very little artistic ability and so really think it is a bad idea to start from scratch.

I'll be absolutely honest and admit I am way way way out of my depths here.  I love my Frankie character because clothing resources I have take on a new life over her green patchwork form.  I really want to do her justice because while I may just be a hobbiest this is the character that really took me from occasional use to the hobby I can't wait to get home and work on.  I know this is likely basic knowledge to some of you experts out there and I realize that is probably so common place that it should be basic knowledge but honestly when I have looked I find how to export as these file types but nothing on how to get them in to be used as a base.  Please any help, direction, or references that you can provide or point me to would be cherished by me (I was going to say appreciated but really it is far more personally important to do Frankie justice than something that would be simply appreciated).

Thank you for any support you can provied a poor ignorant novice.

 

The 4.7 GB Mixamo animation collection includes all their animations in both FBX & BVH format but I don't know of a download that is BVH or FBX only except manually going through their colection and adding them to your download list in the format you prefer.

That collection isn't of any use to get the Mixamo motions onto one of the DAZ figures. The figure that they were originally rigged on seems to have a largely different bone layout compared to those of DAZ's figures. Without a huge amount of work you won't get them to work. For our (your) purpose it's not more than a huge waste of disc space.

Honestly, for genesis 2 anyway -just follow the mixamo instructions using the default genesis (or even a morphed genesis) then use mcasuals copyposeanime script to a separate (maybe clothed) Genesis 2 in daz studio

I guess you're talking about this one... That's an excellent suggestion, DigiDotz!  Works nicely without the neccessary detour over V4/M4 (and using a pose adjustment), like one would have to when using the now abandoned Mixamo DAZ Michael and Victoria figures.

I just tested it with a Victoria 6 FBX exported from DS and imported into Mixamo. The there exported animated FBX works even on the basic Genesis 2 Female and Male when using mcasuals script. And in some way on Genesis, too. Except for the hands, which have a too different zero pose. It doesn't work on Genesis 3, though, but that's what I suspected anyways.

Thanks a LOT, that's a nice improvement to my workflow!  

Those Mixamo animations are supposed to be retargetable in Unity to Mecanim compatible rigs, which so far for me has included Poser characters and DAZ characters and a couple I modeled myself but I guess that doesn't mean DAZ's animation system can use them or the DAZ Studio plugins animate2 / keyMate / graphMate combination can use them. As I've only used a few of the animations from Mixamo directly in Unity, nothing near the thousands they have, I'm not sure of their utility in DAZ.

The huge amount of work must be consistantly the same sort of similar adjustments that Mixamo had to have automated with scripts on their back end for V4 and M4 before they pulled those from their store. 

Anyway maybe Mixamo will be kind enough to allow you to post those that you have already that they used their scripts to convert to V4 / M4 rigs.

The 4.7 GB Mixamo animation collection includes all their animations in both FBX & BVH format but I don't know of a download that is BVH or FBX only except manually going through their colection and adding them to your download list in the format you prefer.

That collection isn't of any use to get the Mixamo motions onto one of the DAZ figures. The figure that they were originally rigged on seems to have a largely different bone layout compared to those of DAZ's figures. Without a huge amount of work you won't get them to work. For our (your) purpose it's not more than a huge waste of disc space.

Honestly, for genesis 2 anyway -just follow the mixamo instructions using the default genesis (or even a morphed genesis) then use mcasuals copyposeanime script to a separate (maybe clothed) Genesis 2 in daz studio

I guess you're talking about this one... That's an excellent suggestion, DigiDotz!  Works nicely without the neccessary detour over V4/M4 (and using a pose adjustment), like one would have to when using the now abandoned Mixamo DAZ Michael and Victoria figures.

I just tested it with a Victoria 6 FBX exported from DS and imported into Mixamo. The there exported animated FBX works even on the basic Genesis 2 Female and Male when using mcasuals script. And in some way on Genesis, too. Except for the hands, which have a too different zero pose. It doesn't work on Genesis 3, though, but that's what I suspected anyways.

Thanks a LOT, that's a nice improvement to my workflow!  

First -

I have already opened a helpdesk support ticket on this. I am posting in the forum as an FYI to people who have bought this product that there are problems with it and they should expect DAZ to address them; and to people who are thiking about buying it that they may want to wait for DAZ to fix things.

Second -

I know I already started a thread on the initial problem I found, but I have a good (to me, anyway) reason for starting this separate thread (see Note 1 below).

Third -

I am referring to the product as downloaded with DIM. I do not know if the same applies to it supplied by Connect. Someone who has bought it and used Connect to obtain and install it should check. All the detail needed to check is below.

To business:

There is a considerable problem with this product not working as advertised, at least as supplied by DIM. Only around half of what is listed on the store page actually works. The problem with this product is so much more extensive than I realised when originally posting about it. It's not just the elbows.

On the store product page, it lists the product as supplying morphs that improve the following joint rotations (copied and pasted from the product page):

 Ultimate Collar Bend L
 Ultimate Collar Bend R
 Ultimate Collar Front Back L
 Ultimate Collar Front Back R
 Ultimate Collar Twist L
 Ultimate Collar Twist R
 Ultimate Elbow Bend L
 Ultimate Elbow Bend R
 Ultimate Forearm Twist L
 Ultimate Forearm Twist R
 Ultimate Neck Head Bend
 Ultimate Neck Head Side Side
 Ultimate Neck Head Twist
 Ultimate Shin L
 Ultimate Shin R
 Ultimate Shoulder Twist L
 Ultimate Shoulder Twist R
 Ultimate Thigh Bend L
 Ultimate Thigh Bend R
 Ultimate Thigh Side Side L
 Ultimate Thigh Side Side R
 Ultimate Thigh Twist L
 Ultimate Thigh Twist R
 
Each of those is actually the label of one of the control dials visible to the user, and each then controls a number of actual morphs (dials visible in /Hidden/People/Victoria 7/ if setting Show Hidden), from 1 to 5 per joint rotation, with most controlling two morphs, one for positive and one for negative rotation.
 
(The entries I've removed from the list copied from the store product page - Ultimate Natural Bend Morphs for Victoria 7, Ultimate Leg Out L, Ultimate Leg Out R, Ultimate Thigh L, Ultimate Thigh R - are master controllers that control all or subsets of the others.)

Of those 23 joint rotations listed above the morphs for the following DO NOT WORK. AT ALL. They don't just do the wrong thing; they do NOTHING.

 Ultimate Collar Twist L (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Collar Twist R (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Elbow Bend L (1 morph)
 Ultimate Elbow Bend R (1 morph)
 Ultimate Forearm Twist L (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Forearm Twist R (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Shoulder Twist L (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Shoulder Twist R (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Thigh Twist L (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 Ultimate Thigh Twist R (2 morphs: 1 pos 1 neg)
 
 That is TEN of the 23 advertised improved joint rotations for which the product actually does nothing - NOTHING - at all. And to cap that, two of the other remaining 13 only HALF work.
 
 Ultimate Thigh Bend L (2 morphs: 1 Forward 1 Back)
 Ultimate Thigh Bend R (2 morphs: 1 Forward 1 Back)
 
 For these two, the morphs to improve forward bends of the thighs work; the morphs for bends backwards do NOT.
 
 For those with a techie mind - or who want to develop one - I will explain the reason. In each of the 10 cases that do nothing, and for the missing correction for the thigh bend back, the situation and fault is exactly the same. In data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 3\Female\Morphs\K.H. Image Studio\Ultimate Natural Bend Morphs for Victoria 7\ all of the .dsf files that should be there are there. The ones for the visible-to-the-user control channels are all correct and can be dialled on a loaded G3F. The ones for all of the actual morphs do contain all the information to create the 'hidden' morph channels, and also contain the ERC formulae to link them to the control channels and the appropriate joint rotation channels, so on posing the figure one can see the actual morph channels dialling appropriately if you have Show Hidden set in the parameter pane. But for the collar twists, elbow bends, Forearm twists, shoulder twists and Thigh twists, and for thigh bend backs, the spinnning morph dials have NO EFFECT. NONE. And that is because all of those morph data .dsf files for those bends, all TWENTY of those morph data 'dsf files, contain:
 
             "morph" : {
                 "vertex_count" : 17418,
                 "deltas" : {
                     "count" : 0,
                     "values" : [
                     ]
                 }
             }

ABSOLUTELY NO MORPH DELTAS.

For those who don't but would like to understand - the number after 'count' is the number of G3F vertices affected by the morph; between the open and close square brackets after 'values' should be lines of numbers, one line per G3F vertex affectd by the morph, first number in the line the identifying number of an affected vertex, followed by three numbers that are the x, y and z 'deltas' ... the distances that vertex should be moved by to change the shape when the morph is applied at 1. That is what a morph is as supplied: a .dsf DSON file for the morph that includes a section as above, but with a 'count' showing the number of G3F vertices affected by the morph, and a list of the x, y and z amounts each affected vertex is moved by when the morph is dialled to 1.

But all the morphs to reshape and improve the joints when those 10 joint rotations listed on the product page - plus the 'back' rotation of the thigh - are used contain that same snippet.

"count" : 0,

so the morphs affect NO vertices. And no "values", no deltas to say how much any vertices should be moved on morphing.

So those 'morphs' do NOTHING.

The product page (and some of it is specifically in the description, not just the content list) says the product provides JCM and MCM morphs to improve 23 different joint rotations. But actually it only provides the morphs for 11 of the listed joint rotations, plus half of the morphs it's supposed to for two of the other 12.

Which works out to the product, as supplied to me via DIM, actually only containing HALF of what it is supposed to in a functional state. And what's especially annoying is that the most common mistake in DAZ products I get is faulty ERC formulae, but I can diagnose and fix those myself in minutes; but missing MORPH DELTAS I can't.

I find it hard to imagine how this happened. Either the missing morphs existed and are supposed to be in the product as sold, but someone - the PA or someone at DAZ - somehow accidentally deleted the morph deltas but not the channels; or it was decided - by the PA or someone at DAZ - to remove those morphs (sub-standard, problematic or whatever), but whoever did it accidentally deleted the morph deltas but not the channels, so the dials still appear in a loaded G3F but do nothing, AND forgot to amend the product page to remove the mentions of the joint rotations no longer improved. Well, there's a third possibility, but I really don't want to even think that might be true.

But that's it. Basically, as packaged for DIM anyway, the product only contains about half of what is claimed on the product page, plus creates a load of visible and hidden channels on loading G3F that do absolutely nothing.

DAZ needs to do one of two things, and PDQ.

Either:

If those missing morph deltas do exist and the improvers for those joint rotations listed above ARE supposed to be in the product, get hold of the proper morph .dsf files thaat actually do contain the morph deltas and produce an update.

Or:

If those missing morph deltas either do not exist or those morphs were intentionally dropped, then issue an update that REMOVES all the useless control and empty morph .dsf data files, and REWRITE the store page, removing the references in both 'Details' and 'What's Included and Features' to the non-existent/dropped morphs. And then, seeing as the customer would actually be getting about half the number of joint rotation corrections DAZ and the PA thought were worth 28.95 USD full price, 20.27 USD sale price, cut both full and sale price by about half and refund the difference to people who have already bought it on the basis of the original store product page specifications.

I am hoping the situation is the first of those, and we can get a properly working product as originally advertised with all the joint corrections.

But one thing is clear. DAZ need to have a REALLY LONG LOOK at their QA procedures. They have put out to paying customers a product HALF of which is faulty/missing. When I thought it was just the elbow morphs, I thought that was sloppy work from QA but just about understandable. But to miss the fact that, out of 23 joint rotation improvers advertised, TEN DO NOTHING (which is a lot easier to spot than something doing the WRONG thing - I noticed the missing elbow correctors about 30 seconds after G3F finished loading after instaalling the product) and TWO only half work, leaving only 11 that do what they should beggars belief. DAZ QA procedures - and staff - really need serious review. I've been a DAZ customer since 2004, and there has been a regular pattern of QA failures, but this one is on a whole new level and really takes the biscuit. If their QA people are overworked, they need to get more. This just is not acceptable.

Note 1:

I have created a new topic rather than added to the pervious one because I effectively derailed my own topic with the other one, writing a lot more about what was intended to be constructive criticism, arguing the product would have been better and more widely useful if it had been designed differently from how it was advertised on the store page. I'm starting a new topic because of the far more serious failures of the product to operate AS ADVERTISED than I had discovered when starting the other topic, and I would like to stay focused on that, not on whether it would have been better different anyway.

Note 2:

I believe that everythinng I have written in this post is accurate, fair, verifiable, balanced and justified. If any moderators somehow diasgree, I'd appreciate a discussion of edits rather then summary deletion. This is a real, significant failure of a product to deliver what is on the store page, and I have provided the detail that you can check yourself either or both testing with a G3F in DS, or just perusing the data /dsf files in a text editor. 20 morphs with no deltas; 10 promo specified joint rotations receiving no morphing despite every file and everything else but the deltas being present, and 2 other joint rotations only receiving bend forward morphing where the store page says it should have bend backward morphing too. Especially given the price of the product this is not good and should be aired.