@crosswind

"- Q1: does Filament support Spotlight ? Why it looks weird with splotlight ? (ss1) If I crank up Lumen, it looks even worse ! (ss2)"

YES. Make sure you select your light and turn off the photometric option. All the old lights from 3DL ( distant, spotlight, linear light etc) work with Filament. If you need shadows projected on objects, floor etc select the shadow option " deep shadow map".

"- Q2: how to make soft shadow on the figure, it looks too harsh. With a distant light in the scene, I made a spotlight a mesh light with Disk + Height as usual, the shadow on the face is still harsh. (ss3)  It's totally different from Iray render (ss4)  Besides, there's meant to be a shadow on some area on char's face with that spotlight, but there isn't ~~" See Q1 answer

"- Q3: as for Outline shell, why I cannot see outline in some area... like the outline on the hoodies body, on the hair sides... (ss5)  And the outline is not so smooth, like sort of dot lines ( in the render...)."

That becomes more/less visible depending on where you placed the light and how you rotate the scene. That shell acts like a solid glossy surface, it doesn't reflect everything every time. You have to see wich angle works best depending on what you want to be seen best.

"- Q4: Opacity on the hair cards doesn't work . Is there any good way to make hair a bit transparent ?" Not as far i know, for now.

"- Q5: Depth of Field doensn't work in Filament at all ! Is that true ?"

Correct, to date DoF does not work with Filament. The way around is to do separate renders, save in .png ( transparent background for the figures you intend to have) and assemble the multiple renders by blurring the background/items in background with Photoshop or any photomanipulation program of your choice ( even GIMP).

@lachi

check page 1 and 2, there are some tips on how to get started. :)

Here a quick run with Josie 9 turned into a Filatoon.

Load anime toon

parameters---anime---zero all anime morphs

load Josie 9 morphs ( head and body)

Hair and dress manually converted with the filatoon shader

crosswind said:

Daneel said:

I have absolutely no idea how is this Filament working. Can you suggest me sources where I can learn about it? What options have to use or modify?

I bought Vicky 9 and all of the filatoons but I have no idea, how can I use them. :(

Me too ~ almost first time I went for a workflow with Filament and the new toon shader an hour ago. I got some fundamental knowledged in her from Jay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE1pSOPfLNw

Maybe you can take a look first. Then just need to understand what those properties in Filament drawstyle / toon shaders work for, and have more experiments with them.

That can certainly help, just know that we don't get the same results using those methods with Filatoon.

Filament has undergone a Massive Upgrade in Daz Studio with this release. 

Since the Genesis 9 Toon figures load with a special instruction to turn the headlamp On (so that we can see something - anything) the Scene Lighting scale, for example, has little to no affect at this point (first loading character)

So here's what to do:

1. Load one of the preset figures (at least until we understand everything)
2. Create > New Filament Draw Options Node
3. Create Distant Light

Now play around with the Filament Draw Options and the light settings - back and forth a bit to get a feel for what's going on.

Note that many (most?) of those options are over my head.

The settings that are really beneficial to play with from the user's side - at least in the initial stages, are the Color Grading options toward the top as well as the Distant and Scene lighting strength options. I find it best for me to turn off the headlamp in the Filament Draw options right away, so I can use "My" lights without the headlamp impeding my flow

Daneel said:

I have absolutely no idea how is this Filament working. Can you suggest me sources where I can learn about it? What options have to use or modify?

I bought Vicky 9 and all of the filatoons but I have no idea, how can I use them. :(

Me too ~ almost first time I went for a workflow with Filament and the new toon shader an hour ago. I got some fundamental knowledged in her from Jay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE1pSOPfLNw

Maybe you can take a look first. Then just need to understand what those properties in Filament drawstyle / toon shaders work for, and have more experiments with them.

Daneel said:

I have absolutely no idea how is this Filament working. Can you suggest me sources where I can learn about it? What options have to use or modify?

I bought Vicky 9 and all of the filatoons but I have no idea, how can I use them. :(

1. In Daz Studio go to Create > Create New Filament Draw Options Node
2. Select the Filament Draw Options Node in the Scene pane
3. Adjust settings in the Parameters pane
4. Have Fun!!!

I have absolutely no idea how is this Filament working. Can you suggest me sources where I can learn about it? What options have to use or modify?

I bought Vicky 9 and all of the filatoons but I have no idea, how can I use them. :(

It's awesome though. We get a really cool result... save as a preset of some sort - shader, lights, scene subset....

After a while, we're going in and working with glee!!!

The biggest thing for me was to get in there, put a nice light rig together and parent all of the lights to a Null that is located at the base of a character, turn off the headlamp in Filament Draw Options (or adjust it accordingly - whatever works best), and then saving stuff out.

After my lights were the way I want them, I saved a Scene subset and only included the Null (with the lights inside) in the save dialog.

Then I did the same with a base Filament Draw Options Node with everything at default except with the headlamp turned off - save as Scene Subset - only selecting the Filament Draw Options Node.

For designing custom characters, it can be fun and rewarding to simply go through and apply Filatoon shader presets to existing characters we've already made. However, I've noticed much better Anime/Cartoon/Manga results if I instead load in one of the Base Anime figures and rebuild the character using that - watching the eyes carefully throughout this process. It look So Much Better with all of the new Toon Anatomy pieces in place!

cathan01_wwg1wga said:

The filatoon shader is really nice. I was just getting used to my anime/ painting routine using daz iray and gimp, but filatoon reduces my workload significantly (postwork, especially). Now I just have to learn how to use filament more efficiently...

Adding your own lights helps even more.

That will open up a lot more fun when adjusting the Filament Draw Options - like the amazing Color Grading options!

So don't forget to go Create > Create New Filament Draw Options Node (way at the bottom)

The filatoon shader is really nice. I was just getting used to my anime/ painting routine using daz iray and gimp, but filatoon reduces my workload significantly (postwork, especially). Now I just have to learn how to use filament more efficiently...

daveso said:

I'm thick as a brick. This stuff is flying over my head, like out of site. I decided to give it a go, but wow, I'm so not knowing what to do, I realize everyday how much I have no clue about in DS. I think I might have to start over, from the very beginning. #1 - this is DAZ Studio. This is how you launch it. 
Yeah ... like the description by Mada seems right on..but what are LUT?  I cannot get an outline no matter what I do? Why does it ask me to select a node? What are they asking for? It seems these shaders and associated files are all over the place. Maybe its more together in Content Library and not Smart Content? Then there's stuff in Essentials, Shaders, who knows where else. 

Okay, let's see if we can help.

..but what are LUT?

Okay, at this stage in the game, don't even Think about what a LUT is. That's for when you get more advanced into really tweaking things

I cannot get an outline no matter what I do? Why does it ask me to select a node? What are they asking for?

For this and any other problems you might have, do this as your first step into all of this - okay? Just follow me here:

1. Load one of the presets - Base Anime Femine or Masculine - or Vicky 9
2. In the Scene pane, open the hierarchy of the figure - just one level will do. We want to see everything that's parented to the figure
3. Look for a parented item that ends in the words: "Toon Outline"
4. Select that and, in the Parameters pane, use Mesh Offset to edit the thickness of the outline

Keep in mind that this Toon Outline is a very special shader that is not always visible at all times. It shows up according to the angle of the camera along with whatever might block it from view. It's been carefully designed that way to create a good outline without looking crazy all over the place. A very special shader indeed!

So now, if we add clothing or mesh hair or props that are not Filatoon already, Select the item and go to the Surfaces pane.

1. Select all surface materials Except for those that should be transparent and, for starters, apply the General Filatoon Shader Preset (Shader Presets > Filatoon > Presets)
2. Applying that shader has now also applied a Toon Offset Geometry Shell for you - unless there was already a GeoShell on it. 
3. In the same way, we can now select that Toon Offest in the Scene pane, and edit the outline using Mesh Offset in the Parameters pane.

Something else to know about Filatoon:

Filatoon character presets tell Filament to turn on the headlamp for itself.

It does this because it requires at least one Daz Studio light source to be present in order to become visible (not including HDRI or Sun/Sky).

Adding your own lights to the scene (think Photography studio techniques here) and then turning the headlamp slider off in Filament Draw Options will give you a Lot of power towards creating the look and feel that you want.

Filament Draw Options Node can be loaded via the Create menu - waaaaay toward the bottom > Create New Filament Draw Options Node

Select that in the Scene pane and make adjustments in the Parameters pane. Be careful! There are a lot of options in there! If you've added at least one light, start by editing the Headlamp option to 0.00

The sliders toward the top that begin with "Color Grading" are a Lot of fun to use for adjusting the overall look of the scene!

Hope this helps man!

Umi no Senshi no Ishi said:

I feel like a newbie all over.

I loaded the new Vicky 9 and she comes in all black?

I've got 4.23

Filament is on

Render to viewport

No idea what's going on.

Make a Distant Light and you can move it around for other lighting angles.  Essentially it replaces your camera and headlamp.  I find pointing at her to also help!

Umi no Senshi no Ishi said:

I feel like a newbie all over.

I loaded the new Vicky 9 and she comes in all black?

I've got 4.23

Filament is on

Render to viewport

No idea what's going on.

Make a distant light.

I feel like a newbie all over.

I loaded the new Vicky 9 and she comes in all black?

I've got 4.23

Filament is on

Render to viewport

No idea what's going on.

daveso said:

rokkr said:

First lesson for Premier members learned the hard way: never use your Free Character Bundle coupon at the beginning of the month...

well, it appears useless to me. i dont need an anima cartoon character.-- especially when it appears some of the stuff will only work while a premier member, and it needs to be downloaded/installed through smart content. not happening for me. 

Nah... You don't even need to be Daz+ member. It's all shipped in the Daz 4.23 (.1 also, I guess) and the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials update (for the G9 Base Anime characters and their add-ons, materials, etc., but the shaders are in the Default Resources).

EDIT: and there's also the new and improved Filament Draw Options Node in the create menu (which, of course, works not only for toon filamente renders, but for any filament render and, also, the preview).

I'm almost a Filament noob but I lover anime ~ so I converted a scene with FilaToon shader but I'm a bit lost and have a couple of questions.  Dear Filament veterans, pls help !

Firstly, I don't want to make the char. look too toony, as well as all wearables, env. / props, etc. so I didn't use G9 toon skin mat. presets but just converted G8F's skin texture ~~ I know they're different...

- Q1: does Filament support Spotlight ? Why it looks weird with splotlight ? (ss1) If I crank up Lumen, it looks even worse ! (ss2)

- Q2: how to make soft shadow on the figure, it looks too harsh. With a distant light in the scene, I made a spotlight a mesh light with Disk + Height as usual, the shadow on the face is still harsh. (ss3)  It's totally different from Iray render (ss4)  Besides, there's meant to be a shadow on some area on char's face with that spotlight, but there isn't ~~

- Q3: as for Outline shell, why I cannot see outline in some area... like the outline on the hoodies body, on the hair sides... (ss5)  And the outline is not so smooth, like sort of dot lines ( in the render...).

- Q4: Opacity on the hair cards doesn't work . Is there any good way to make hair a bit transparent ?

- Q5: Depth of Field doensn't work in Filament at all ! Is that true ?
 

Many thanks in advance !

nynico_8c2302db09 said:

Mada said:

Mark_e593e0a5 said:

If I undrestand this correctly, the shaders only work in Filament render mode - which is not available at all on Mac up until current 4.22 version. Mac users have been instructed NOT to upgrade to 4.23, so I cannot check if it has been made avilable - suppose it isn't. I really like the look of the shaders, but they seem to be not useable for me. Please tell me I am wrong.

Unfortunately you are correct - but there are work going on behind the scenes to get it out to mac users as soon as possible. The shader relies on filament to work properly.

 

I'm heartbroken, this shader is everything i've wanted. 2024 continues to keep on giving. 

Buy a PC for it. You don't even need an expensive graphic card for it. Filament is all CPU/RAM rendering. Just did my first test now, 3840x2160 on my laptop with only 16GB and it rendered almost instantly. I bet you can get a good desktop with, like, 64GB ram or more and a good processor for less than $500 bucks (even less, depending on where you live). I got one last year for those toon experiments (filament and 3Delight) and paid about this. I know Mac users are attached to it, but if this shader is all you've dreamed of, maybe it's worth it.

Yeah the filament rendering is a massive selling point for these new shaders. I've experimented with many of the older cell-shading and line renderers and they were just too much work. I've been creating a lot of assets for a project I'm working, resigned to a more realistic, longer rendering time. The speed of the filament shaders and the ease of applying them now has me rethinking what I want to do with the project style-wise.

Mada said:

Mark_e593e0a5 said:

If I undrestand this correctly, the shaders only work in Filament render mode - which is not available at all on Mac up until current 4.22 version. Mac users have been instructed NOT to upgrade to 4.23, so I cannot check if it has been made avilable - suppose it isn't. I really like the look of the shaders, but they seem to be not useable for me. Please tell me I am wrong.

Unfortunately you are correct - but there are work going on behind the scenes to get it out to mac users as soon as possible. The shader relies on filament to work properly.

I'm heartbroken, this shader is everything i've wanted. 2024 continues to keep on giving. 

HighElf said:

I still have trouble with the outlines.

On some items I get them to work quite nicely, like in the fruit bowl. On others I can do what I want, they appear to be very slim., like with the stools. Also, the shading isn't there yet. Currently, I'm thinking of doing shading in postwork with a dedicated. Or do I don't see anything "obvious" that would add basic shading to the scene? Filament is a book with seven seals to me right now.

Growing pains, my friend!

A lot of how we get cool shading out of FilaToon with all of the new Filament Draw Options comes from lighting - how we place them, which lights we use, and how we set them up.

At the beginning of this video we see my current lighting rig setup.

One Distant Light and three Spot Lights

(EDIT: Actually you can see it without even playing the video - this image on the video's thumbnail is what I'm talking about below)

The yellowish shading from the left is a bit of a cascading rim light. The highlight on the right is a key light. The third spot light is pretty much where the camera is pointing at the character, and is set very slightly - just to help offset what the Distant Light is doing, which is the strongest of them all.

When we load a Base Anime figure, they automatically turn the Headlight "On" in Filament, so that we can see it beautifully no matter what else is going on in the scene. However, for FilaToon to really shine, we must add at least a Distant Light to the scene. At this point, you'll notice that where it is and how it's facing is less important than the fact that it's in there.

Now we can go to the Filament Draw Options and fing the Headlamp slider and turn it off. 

Once that's done, we can truly paint our Anime/Toon look wonderfully using whatever type of lights we feel most comfortable using.

I begin by setting the look using the setting of the lights themselve - leaving the Filament Scene and Distant light sliders in their default state. This way I can truly hone how I want the lights to affect the scene.

Oso3D said:

HighElf: Outline uses a geoshell. Increase the Mesh Offset to make thicker outlines.

Be sure the light source is set to shadows: raytrace (rather than default of off)

Meanwhile, someone asked 'can you apply the shader to anything?' and here's one of the oldest assets I own (it rendered in maybe 5 seconds?)

 

Oh boy. So simple. Yep, now the outlines are solved. thank you.

Is there a good tutorial or documentation for Filament? I guess I will have to learn how lighting setups can be realized in that engine. Otherwise, I have to do the shading manually in Ps.

I still have trouble with the outlines.

On some items I get them to work quite nicely, like in the fruit bowl. On others I can do what I want, they appear to be very slim., like with the stools. Also, the shading isn't there yet. Currently, I'm thinking of doing shading in postwork with a dedicated. Or do I don't see anything "obvious" that would add basic shading to the scene? Filament is a book with seven seals to me right now.