-> In the promo images you posted so far those painted eye brows destroy the illusion.

Sorry, em, there isn't a single promo image yet... they are mostly just WIP shots I post, and could you be a lot clearer in terms of "destroy the illusion"?

 

It is very encouraging to see that some DAZ3D artists try out new SSS shader settings for the skin.

Thanks, I feel like its a much better way so I'm going on that road, and this is my first character btw :)

 

But all that effort is for nothing if artists do not follow trough and also provide custom fiber eyebrows that feature proper transmission or at least backlighting effects.

I guess that dived straight into uncanny for you huh?

Brow itself isn't a geometry so i guess no matter what it is still gonna be on the texture, which got rid of these proper effects - unless you somehow manages to do an amazing displacement map...

 

- - -

To be clear:

I am not looking for just another standalone fiber mesh eyebrow product.

Wait correct me if I'm wrong, I can't seem to find a "fiber mesh eyebrow" in the store, care give a link if you know any? :)

You get Fiber Mesh Eyebrows with Victoria 7 and over on Rendo there is the Oh My Brows product too which should give you an idea of what he means.  Katarina is looking great by the way!  

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?

Nope, you are not alone. I don't really find her that attractive either. I really liked the look of old V7, and when comparing the new V8 to her, the new model looks really masculine. Of course that is just my opinion, and there's really no point of arguing, since like they say, beaty is in the eye of the beholder. I also understand that later there will be more characters which I'll probably like more, but since pretty much every piece of clothing in Daz world supports Victoria model, I build my own characters based on her. Maybe I could use V8 body ( which I think is ok ), and some other character face as a base, but I'm still really happy with my old V7, and probably stick with her until next generation comes after 2 years.

PS: Maybe it's just me, but I think it's just as rude to call characters duck faced plastic surgery queens as it's calling new V8 ugly ( you can say ugly in so many ways ), and then trying to defend it by saying that new V8 looks more like "average" female.

Calling her "ugly" when she looks a lot more like an average woman ...yeah. 

Victoria isn't supposed to be ***average***. And V8's face has features more commonly attributed to men. That's why it's offputting. It's just a fact. Most women do not have those features. That's why I have no problem saying she's butt ugly.

This is just a quick image that I did of FW Rebekah (I forgot to mention her in my previous post) I put it together after my last post here and let it render while I ate my dinner I have used this character a fair bit.

That is realy nice, Ann.

One thing to understand; the results of the study don't automatically mean that anyone other than those that participated in the study found certain features more attractive than others. And, honestly, if you're surrounded by advertizing that constantly shows people with a certain appearance on a consistent basis, you're apt to unconsiously adopt the viewpoint that they are the norm even if that's not the case.

(1) if the study was large enough, then you can infer general population reactions to what is/isn't pleasing

(2) this has nothing to do with advertising if we are talking about -- as the studies do -- trustworthiness, sinisterness, etc. These are character traits that are unconsciously infered from looks. We all do it.

It doesn't sound like you bothered to first read the studies, but are just falling back on well worn cliches.

There haven't actually been any linked any studies to read, so its rather hard for you to say anyone hasn't "read the studies"

In what I have read Symmetricality seems to be the most supported univesal sign of attractiveness and good news! V8 just happens to be perfectly symmetric! so she therefore scientifically must be perfectly attractive. ;)

Slightly less facetiously, I personally find V8 the most attractive Victoria to date, because I find her facial proportions more realistic and less stylized; and personally close to realistic but stylized features veers right into the uncanny valley for me and creeps me right out so I always found the somewhat more stylized features of previous generations were incredibly offputting.

She also has the nicest expressions to date. As I'm also not a fan of the dead mannequin stare that's another checkmark in the better looking box for me.

It depends on whether you want to render realistic people or more toonish idealized ypes of  beautiful women.  Either is fine, but you can't really compare a toon girl to a real one. They are different styles.

The type of women you see in the store with the huge amount of body fat on the face, and chest with the deformed spine is actually not very realistic. Lots of body fat in the face, lips, and chest area will mean bodyfat elsewhere in the natural world. Oversized eyes are more common in children than adults, and yes it is conceivable that adult women have huge eyes, it is not very common. The spinal issue is also quite sad but seems to continue in this generation.

So, if your standards of beauty are towards idealzied women, Victoria 8 might not suit you. If you like a more realistic female model she certainly has more normal everday features and proportions,

This is just a quick image that I did of FW Rebekah (I forgot to mention her in my previous post) I put it together after my last post here and let it render while I ate my dinner I have used this character a fair bit.

She may not be drop-dead-gorgeous, but she's the most realistic looking of all the Victoria's so far. I actually have more a problem with the length of her legs than her face actually. LOL. At any rate, since Vicky isn't the only game in town anymore, there will be a steady stream of Daz morphs behind her and people are bound to find something that strikes their fancy. Her face doesn't bother me much. I can spin morph dials and make morphs - IF I choose :). I'm perfectly fine with using her face as-is. I just feel I need to really shorten her legs :P

Laurie

I actually liked the length of the legs. lol

I very rarely use the body morph that a character comes with but I did like hers.

You are correct about her not being the only game in town. I'm excited to see what other characters they come out with.

Yup, I remember each of those instances.

Yep, I remember those AND my Zygote Victoria :P. I actually remember when Posette and Dork were IT....lol. I've been doing this stuff waaaay too long ;).

Laurie

Ahhh, I was still playing in Bryce back then, so only hung out in the Renderosity Bryce forum, because DAZ didn't own Bryce at the time.

And I was playing with and hanging out in the Vue forum :D Only got Poser to bring people and animals into Vue...hehe.

Laurie

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting.
Is just me?

Not just you, and it's not just her jaw. A bit masculine looking too.

She may not be drop-dead-gorgeous, but she's the most realistic looking of all the Victoria's so far. I actually have more a problem with the length of her legs than her face actually. LOL. At any rate, since Vicky isn't the only game in town anymore, there will be a steady stream of Daz morphs behind her and people are bound to find something that strikes their fancy. Her face doesn't bother me much. I can spin morph dials and make morphs - IF I choose :). I'm perfectly fine with using her face as-is. I just feel I need to really shorten her legs :P

Laurie

I agree. And honestly, I find her MUCH more realistic than many of the previous totally unrealistic plastic surgery looking characters. The fact that people are calling her "ugly" is an insult to the average woman, imo, as she looks much more like an average woman than many previous characters. 

I think V8 is lovely and it honestly makes me mad to see people say she's "ugly". People are so brainwashed by plastic surgery and over photoshopped images and unnatural looking people, it's sick.

Victoria 8 isn't ugly, and people need to stop saying that. I think she's pretty and more realistic than many characters we've had.

I don't think it's fair to say that some people are brainwashed because they don't like her face. I just don't like the way she looks but I have never thought of myself as brainwashed because of it.

Calling her "ugly" when she looks a lot more like an average woman ...yeah. Call that what you want, I'd say media and Hollywood brainwashing. Just because a woman has a stronger jaw - calling her UGLY. Really? No one wants to think that they're influenced by the media and Hollywood - no one. But fact is that many, even most, are. Most of us are, to some degree. We're bombarded by a very narrow "beauty ideal" from the moment we're born. If you think that doesn't affect you on some level, you're being nieve. 

I agree. And honestly, I find her MUCH more realistic than many of the previous totally unrealistic plastic surgery looking characters. The fact that people are calling her "ugly" is an insult to the average woman, imo, as she looks much more like an average woman than many previous characters. 

I think V8 is lovely and it honestly makes me mad to see people say she's "ugly". People are so brainwashed by plastic surgery and over photoshopped images and unnatural looking people, it's sick.

Victoria 8 isn't ugly, and people need to stop saying that. I think she's pretty and more realistic than many characters we've had.

I don't think it's fair to say that some people are brainwashed because they don't like her face. I just don't like the way she looks but I have never thought of myself as brainwashed because of it.

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?

I agree. She's objectively not very attractive. Beauty is a science, its based on signs of reproductive health, and quantifiable by sets of averages and symmetry. Any basic figure drawing course will teach you these ratios that make up ideal beauty for men and women. A manly face and jaw is not attractive on a woman. Daz purposely went against that for whatever reason. I currently have 3 orange banners in my inbox, one is for a substantial discount on V8 which makes me think V8 is not selling as well as Daz would hope because they broke this rule.

Nope. Nope. And Nope.

Beauty isn't a "science". There have been studies on what people find more attractive, but what a lot of what people find attractive is what we are inundated with on a daily basis in media. They've found that more symmetrical faces to be more pleasing to babies, but they don't have a study that proves that "beauty is a science" - it's really not.

It's subjective and heavily reliant on what current society says and portrays as attractive. History has proven that, as face types and body types that we find attractive today were considered unattractive in the past. Beauty really is subjective and comes down to personal taste after factoring in societal influence. 

Second, just because there is a banner for V8, doesn't mean she's not selling well. We had a Daz employee come to the forum to thank the community for the success of Victorias launch in which he said she was the highest selling Victoria figure so far. So... yeah. You many be prejudice against Victoria 8, but your prejudice isn't necessarily what is factual for the majority of people who buy 3D content here.

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?

I agree. She's objectively not very attractive. Beauty is a science, its based on signs of reproductive health, and quantifiable by sets of averages and symmetry. Any basic figure drawing course will teach you these ratios that make up ideal beauty for men and women. A manly face and jaw is not attractive on a woman. Daz purposely went against that for whatever reason. I currently have 3 orange banners in my inbox, one is for a substantial discount on V8 which makes me think V8 is not selling as well as Daz would hope because they broke this rule.

I think she looks pretty and realistic. I'm kind of bored with the big eyed round lipped duck lipped cartoon female which is popular here. She looks far more interesting to me than previous vickies.

I agree. And honestly, I find her MUCH more realistic than many of the previous totally unrealistic plastic surgery looking characters. The fact that people are calling her "ugly" is an insult to the average woman, imo, as she looks much more like an average woman than many previous characters. 

I think V8 is lovely and it honestly makes me mad to see people say she's "ugly". People are so brainwashed by plastic surgery and over photoshopped images and unnatural looking people, it's sick.

Victoria 8 isn't ugly, and people need to stop saying that. I think she's pretty and more realistic than many characters we've had.

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?

No it's not just you. I don't think she's ugly but I don't think she's that pretty either. Her jawline does bother me. The only way I could see myself buying her is if there is a character for her that I really like. She would also have to be at a discount or free. I also didn't really like the look of V5 or V6. I did eventually end up buying V6 at a discount.

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?

I agree, that jawline doesn't look very feminine to me.  That seems it would be the most work to morph to get more feminine features, and potentially mess up PA's expressions with different characters.  To be fair though, V7 is a hottie.

Fair point... wouldn't that be a better thing to tackle with sub characters rather than the flagship?
 

Well that can go either way...do the flagship one way and then supporting characters make it look the reverse or visa versa. I've seen (and used) some very pretty V8 characters that I personally really liked...namely:
https://www.daz3d.com/p3d-duffy-hd-for-victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/ly-camille-hd-for-genesis-8-female

And my personal favorite at the moment:
https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-elizabeth-hd-for-victoria-8

I think all those characters have a very soft/pretty look to them personally (there are some others..these are just the few I thought of off hand) I think as she is out longer you will see more and more characters that show her stylistically different that hopefully you will like better. Everyone has different taste in what they are looking for and I think it is a 50/50 toss as to which people prefer...a more "powerful" looking female (for say fantasy renders etc) or a "softer" look. Whichever general catagory you are in one or the other is always going to be displeased with the base morph cuz achieving both well in one morph can be a tall/difficult order.
I would also reccomend dialing in some of the face shapes on V8...if you use face round and a couple others (and I think the morphs pack may have stuff for the chin as well) you will find you can make her features very different with just adjusting the chin and face shape morphs. Hope that helps

Victoria's face seems to have gone in the wrong direction... like it's been hit with an ugly stick a few times. To be a little more constructive, I think it's the shape of her jawline that is most off putting. 
Is just me?