So far I've been doing it on Genesis 8 and then using a Transfer Utility method to get it to Genesis 9.

Yes, face transfer for 9 would be great

PerttiA said:

When the value of a dial is gray, that means the value is at default value. When the value shows in white, it's something else than default.

It should not have an effect, but you could use the gogwheel above the dials to open up their properties and uncheck "Use limits" and set the value of those dials to zero - Any changes?

I zeroed out that morph and saved the modified assets again, but it did not correct the issue, sadly.

Oh, and did have Hidden Properties revealed :) 

Oh... Completely forgot... When you have Zeroed the Figure and are looking at "Currently Used", make sure you have "Show Hidden Properties" enabled - The problem morph may as well be a hidden one.

PerttiA said:

Before doing it the hard way, you could try loading the "Genesis 8.1 Female Dev Load" into an empty scene, Zero the Figure and check the "Currently Used" list, the list should now show the dials that have their current value not at their default value (value of the dial is shown in white) - One of them should be the culprit.

The only items listed under currently used are the ones shown in the attached image, which were included in the dialog when I saved the modified assets as Richard suggested.

However, when I compared this to the Genesis 8.1 Female Dev Load on my old PC, I noticed a discrepancy; the morph "3DU London Age (in years)" does not appear under Currently Used for the dev figure on my old PC. I found that morph in the parameters via search. It is listed there with a value of 9.00 as well, however, the number is gray instead of white.

The fact that it shows up under Currently Used only on the new PC is confusing. Is that significant, or just a red herring?  

PerttiA said:

Nope, the culprit is a morph, but which one and where is the problem. You may have several versions of that morph installed and when doing the procedure Richard explained, DS may not be updating the correct one.
What makes finding the problem morph/file more difficult, is that it may also be something a creator has included in error, like including the base mesh of G8.1 in ones product when it should never be included.

Okay, in that case, I am just going to have to do this the hard way.

The distortion is not happening on my old PC, so whatever has the morph, I haven't installed it there. I will go through the list of all the products in the DIM queue on that PC, one by one, and see if uninstalling them on the the new PC removes the distortion. 

Escribano said:

Richard Haseltine said:

OK, so that certainly looks as if it has correctly saved any problem morphs.

The distortion is still there, so it must be something other than a morph. I am not sure where to look at this point.

Nope, the culprit is a morph, but which one and where is the problem. You may have several versions of that morph installed and when doing the procedure Richard explained, DS may not be updating the correct one.
What makes finding the problem morph/file more difficult, is that it may also be something a creator has included in error, like including the base mesh of G8.1 in ones product when it should never be included.

3-what exactly do i need to make a hyper realistic  character in daz i want to make a 4k res character

All of the Genesis line have 4k res from Genesis, Genesis 2, 3, 8 and 8.1 - Genesis 9 is 8k

Now sure how you plan to "Make a Character", but a great way to start is to look at the Characters available at the store, find one that you think might make for a great start.

I'll grab one because I really like the overall look: the shape, etc., and perhaps another because I like the texture options.

I've always had to use the main Daz 3d shapes morphs to get mine how I like them, like Face Shapes, Body Shapes and Muscularity morphs for which ever base figure you end up using - again, the character that strikes you most wil;l give a clue as to which base.

Genesis 8.1 was the first line to include the Face Control widget, then they made an add-on for Genesis 3 and 8. Genesis 9 has FACS morph dial built right in and is both Female and Male in one figure.

Genesis 3 line was the first to start getting Iray shaders, I think. At least as the base figure. Genesis 3 also introduced dual quarternion skinning, and a slew of other changes.

Every generation of Daz figure steps deeper into future needs for filmakers and game designers - if that helps. However, when a new generation begins, like Genesis 9 just did, it'll be harder to find all of the content you need to finish the character - hair, costume, pose/animation files that work with that generation, etc., So older generations generally have a lot more content available for them.

Take a look around. Try the filters in the store on the left to specify a specific figure and take a look at what's available. That right there is often a great way to start deciding what you like most.

Daz Studio comes with the base kit for every generation of Genesis, so you can have a look at how well you like working with them before you decide to spend anything too. 

Can I offer a brute ignorance and force method?

1. In Poser, export the hair as an obj file in its default position.
2. Set each morph in succession to 100% and export that as an obj file.
3. Load the base shape as an object, convert to figure and transfer an appropriate base figure's rigging with the transfer utility.
4. Load in the morph obj files using the morph loader utility.
5. Fit to the appropriate base character and save as a wearable preset.

It's painful and slow, but I did get Jim Burton's Las Vegas hair onto G8 this way. If you don't have Poser.. obviously my suggestion is a complete and utter waste of time, and I apologize.

Regards 

Richard 

Richard Haseltine said:

OK, so that certainly looks as if it has correctly saved any problem morphs.

The distortion is still there, so it must be something other than a morph. I am not sure where to look at this point.

Thanks, for confirming this! While I am sorry that others are having the same issue, I am also very relieved that I did not somehow break my models. I'll try using those five settings you listed and see if I can take the Linda Ponytail's values, as it seems unaffected, and transfer them to Everyday Updo 2, since they have the same surfaces.

Also, I went back into The Commons and located that update thread where OOT commented on what the update was for:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/616886/outoftouch-hair-update-galore#latest

Out of Touch said:

Hey,

the updates actually only update the shader file that comes with each hair. Since the shader file is the same with all these updated hairs, you would basically only need to update one hair and have the shader file updated.

What is fixed: There is an issue with how the new Daz Studio Public Beta version is handling a specific setting that was used with these hairs. The renderer crashed and quit without the update. If you do not have issues when rendering, you do not need to install the updates, as this, at least at this moment, only affects the use of the Public Beta version of Daz Studio.

Hope this helps :)

Hopefully this indicates an easy fix once the proper person is made aware. I am unsure of whether I should try to contact someone, DAZ support or OOT directly, though I'd have no idea how? Do I need to find a place to open a support ticket? Or is it best to simply be patient here, hope someone sees this thread, and wait for a new update to the models in my installer. I don't want to wrongfully bother anyone about it.

I do want to mention that I'm not angry at OOT or anyone responsible. Mistakes happen. I only hope that this can be easily and swiftly fixed. I really love the designs of these models and hope to get more in the future. I had been using that messy updo as my default hairstyle for character scene subsets, which is likely why I noticed it relatively quickly and had prior renders to compare it with.

Here are a few different angle and simple lightning tests.

opposite angle default HDRI (left) // Sun-Sky with default settings (center) // one point light (right)

These illustrate how in global lighting the flyaways light up on the darker side just as brightly as the lighter side, yet a simple point light seems to have less of that effect.

Personally, I really don't like maikng sets for Gen 9. And haven't seen the sales from sets made for Gen 9 as I have for Gen8 counterpart sets I've done. I will say I've had more cash since Gen 9 came out, mainly cause I am not getting the stuff for it other than the base things, and the morph sets. Haven't had the need to get new releases for discounts either, So on one hand the Gen 9 release has saved me quite a bit of money to put into other projects that aren't 3d based.So one plus on my front. With the pose converters I figured that would render older sets I've done useless as a rerelease for Gen9, not the case. It only gets it ball park and still requires quite a bit of tweaking to get the original pose, So basically that is about the easiest part of working with Gen 9 so far is converting ball park poses sets to over 300 products quick so all I have to do is tweak the pose to the original state which still requires quite a bit of time to tweak and resave and rerender tnails, and promos. Still not impressed after working with it since release. And really hate, and I can not stress this enough making promos with Gen 9.It has tacked on much un needed time to renders that I get with Gen8 in half the time with less hassle.So not all content creators find Gen 9 easier to use.

There's still Dimension3D's Binary Morph Editor over at Rendo that might do the job for you.

If  'other morphs' come from G8.1,  you can not make your dial work on G8 ~ because your dial is just a controller, its subcomponents could not be found on G8. You need to export the figure as an obj and import it to G8 as a single dial by using Morph Loader Pro~ A single dial of a figure could be also splitted to head and body morph dial if you want~

crosswind said:

What was the approach that you used for making the morph dial(s)? Have you saved it as a morph asset?
If you wanna a dial to work on both of G8 and G8.1, you should use a G8 to create it and save it as morph asset. G8 could not load the morphs of G8.1 cuz their morph files (dsf files) locate in different 'data folders'. 

Now, assuming you've saved the dial on G8.1 as a morph asset, you want it to be loaded on G8 without redong the morph.... Just locate the morph file (xxx.dsf) in ' data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\'Your Vendor Name'\ ', open the dsf file with notepad or a text editor, change:            
"parent" : "/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Female 8_1/Genesis8_1Female.dsf#Genesis81FemaleGeom"  to  "parent" : "/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Female/Genesis8Female.dsf#Genesis8Female". (Normally this modifier is in line 18)

Then save the dsf file, move or copy it to ' data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\'Your Vendor Name'\', then both of G8 and G8.1 can load it~

 

I'll look at editing in text edit. I've tried this kind of thing before and it's not worked but, I'll give it a go.

Richard Haseltine said:

Is this a controller or a new morph? Or a morph which also controls other properties?

 It's a simple dial that controls other morphs.

What was the approach that you used for making the morph dial(s)? Have you saved it as a morph asset?
If you wanna a dial to work on both of G8 and G8.1, you should use a G8 to create it and save it as morph asset. G8 could not load the morphs of G8.1 cuz their morph files (dsf files) locate in different 'data folders'. 

Now, assuming you've saved the dial on G8.1 as a morph asset, you want it to be loaded on G8 without redong the morph.... Just locate the morph file (xxx.dsf) in ' data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\'Your Vendor Name'\ ', open the dsf file with notepad or a text editor, change:            
"parent" : "/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Female 8_1/Genesis8_1Female.dsf#Genesis81FemaleGeom"  to  "parent" : "/data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Female/Genesis8Female.dsf#Genesis8Female". (Normally this modifier is in line 18)

Then save the dsf file, move or copy it to ' data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female\Morphs\'Your Vendor Name'\', then both of G8 and G8.1 can load it~

Is this a controller or a new morph? Or a morph which also controls other properties?

Actually I may have mixed up Vulcans and Romulans, as they are cousins. I went onto Memory Alpha, but the new website design is so full of commercials it is almost impossible to use. I did note that Spock's eyebrows changed radically overtime. They offered a reason for his skin I had never heard at the time.

I don't stream all the iterations of the Star Trek universe, but I was there for the first showing of Star Trek in the 1960s and for me that was the standard. I remember the issue with Spock's makeup having an issue. What I remember is the film developers thought the green skin was a error in development and 'corrected' it to look 'human'. So that was given up. I think this was either in a Star Trek magazine or the TV Guide back then. We had a color TV so I saw it that way from the start.

The rough, ridged brows that it seems all non-human's were graced with after the initial series was a turn off for me. The Klingons just seem to get worse over time. What is the biological reasoning behind them? Or the noses that have ridges? Do the ridges do anything for their species?

And if a PA makes a morph pack, do they think through what the morphs do for an 'alien' or 'fantasy' character's face or body beyond the obvious?

Example configuration:

something like the below or similar / better (uk pricing from a few weeks ago):

• CPU: Intel Core i7-13700KF ~ £ 420 (or similar from AMD)
• Mainboard: MSI Pro Z690-A WiFi DDR4 ~ £ 220
• RAM: 32 GB DDR4 Ram: ~ £ 120
• Storage: M.2 ssd 2 TB: ~ £ 200
• GPU: RTX 3060 12 GB: ~ £ 390 (minimum)
• PSU min. 700 watt: ~ £ 100 (min. 1000 watt for 3090 or above)

Total: ~ £ 1450 (I have taken middle prices from idealo not the cheepest ones - a few weeks ago)

CPU fan: ~ £ 50
(a high end model like the Noctua NH-D15 would be ~ £ 100)

plus case, case fans etc.

Notes:

CPU:
The i7-13700KF is extremely fast, has 18 cores and offers max. 24 threads. I use it in my new build and can say it is a lot faster in daily operation than the AMD Threadripper 3960x I used before. If you don't need the build-in GPU you can go with the i7-13700K (not ...KF) which comes without gpu and is a bit cheeper. Alternatively an Intel i7-13600K or KF is a bit slower, has a few cores less but is cheeper.
Regarding the build-in GPU. If you attach the monitor to that one, and use a current Windows 10 build you save a few 100 MB of vram. The latest Windows 10 interations do not reserve as much vram in general anymore but on top they reserve even less, if no display is attached to the gpu.

Mainboard:
It is a DDR4 not DDR5 board and has one lan port 2.5 GB speed. If you need two lan ports or 10GB speed, expect higher board prices (as I wanted a 10GB connection to my NAS, I simply bought a 10 GB lan card for 87 € and put it in a free PCI slot - this was way cheeper than to go for a board that comes with 10 GB build-in).
DDR4 ram is expected to depricate in the next years. This might become relevant for your 6 years time frame. If you go with DDR4 (Ryzen 5 is also DDR4) buy the needed ram timely to not get hit by limited supply in the future. Alternatively go with Ryzen 7000 series or buy an intel board with DDR5 support (e.g. MSI PRO Z790-A WIFI DDR5). But board and ram will be more expensive.

Regarding the Intel LGA-1700 socket: Rumors say, the 13th gen of Intel CPUs is the last one to use the LGA-1700. It is expected that the next gen of Intel CPUs will require a new mainboard with a new socket.

AMD: Same situation with AMD. Ryzen 5000 series uses socket AM4. The new Ryzen 7000 series uses socket AM5. So, if you buy a Ryzen 5000 CPU now you can't just replace the CPU with a Ryzen 7000 in the future. You need to replace the mainboard as well.

If you prefer to have a simple upgrade path (just replace CPU) it might be better to go with Ryzen 7000 and not Intel 13000 or AMD 5000. Ryzen 7000 uses AM5 socket and AMD wrote they will support AM5 at least until 2025 with new CPUs. Disadvantage is, that Ryzen 7000 needs the more expensive DDR5 ram and the AM5 mainboards are also more expensive than the older DDR4 boards with socket AM4.

RAM:
min. 32 GB and see mainboard (better 64 GB).

Storage:
If you want to use it for many years you might want to read about experience with long term use before buying something. I personally have good experience with Samsung and Crucial SSDs and M.2s but that was just luck maybe.

GPU:
The RTX 3060 12 GB is considered the sweet spot of processing speed, vram and price theese days. Alternatively there is the RTX 3060 Ti. It is faster but has less vram and costs more. In case of a decision I suggest to always go for more vram instead of more speed. Or better: try to get a used 3090 with 24 GB of vram (I use this one and it is hell of fast and has plenty of vram - good for DS and stable-diffusion).
Or wait for the lower end RTX 4xxx GPUs. The 4090 would be nice but in my opinion the price is just to high. For that money one can get two used 3090 and combine them via a NVLink. This way you get a similar speed but with combined 48 GB for textures. (for two 3090 take a good PSU).

PSU:
Don't go for the cheepest models. The most simple models tend to fail more early than higher end products and they could struggle with power demand peeks form the PC (CPU and GPU can request way higher watteges from the PSU than their official TDP values suggest - those peaks are only lasting a few milliseconds but very simple PSUs might cause a PC shutdown or blue screen because of it - it is rare, but it happens). Some vendors offer extended warranty for their higher end models. E.g. I got a 10 years warranty for a Corsair AX1600i PSU (it offers 1600 watt which is fine for multi GPU configurations - but it is expensive - I got it during a sale).

Power cosumption and cooling:
The 13700KF at default settings in my board and at a high load (Cinebench R25 benchmark) consumed nearly 250 watt. That creates is a lot heat to be handled by the CPU cooler. But, those CPUs (Intel and AMD) and mainboards are set to very high voltage values at stock. In my case I just went into the MSI bios and lowerd the "CPU lite load" setting. As a result the CPU is now at 194 watt under Cinebench R25 with no reduction in speed and stability. Temps went down from around 90 degree C to around 75 degree C (watercooled system).
The RTX 3090 is similar to this regard. Default was 330 watt in Iray rendering at around 1950 MHz clock speed. I lowered the clock curve to a max. of 1800 MHz and reduced the allowed voltage quite a bit (can simply be done with the MSI afterburner tool). Result: before around 330 watt, after 245 watt. Speed wise it does not make a relevant difference in DS.

I went with watercooling to not run into cooling / throttling issues. The system can render for endless hours without any heat issue on GPU, CPU or other components. Temps don't reach critical values which hopefully helps for components to last a few years.

If you go the intel route with LGA-1700 socket and build the system yourself, google for "LGA 1700 bending issue" before doing so. A lot of overheating, throtteling, bluescreen issues have to do with it (it's about a bend of the CPU when attached to the board so that the cooling plate does not have good contact the CPU die - this causes bad heat transfer to the cooler and results in overheating of those CPU areas that are not well covered).