interesting
most would use Magna or Anime studio with drawings rather than 3D but it is possible.
I think having characters and sets that actually look like that the first step.
I would animate drawings of faces from a program I have called crazytalk by Reallusion and use image sequences in diffuse channel for the vector graphics look.

argus1000 said:

holly wetcircuit said:

Can I ask what is your downside for just "doing it" in Carrara without the DMC?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I work in Carrara with the Mimic plugin for Carrara and the standard DMC file that is provided. But I heard that if you modify or edit this DMC file, you can get better results. I though a DMC file was essential. I'm a bit confused because I'm still learning Mimic.

I have the old Mimic Pro that writes the DMCs, but I don't use it.... I am not aware of any helpful controls that allow you to create nuances, other than just editing the poses. It's been a while since I used it - and I may be confusing it with CrazyTalk (which *does* have a lot of nuance controls).

I set up the associations in Carrara (for mouths generally it is like 5-7 poses, which I re-use on similar "visemes". I actually like the "soft" look of this better than the DMCs which can look a little ar•tic•ul•at•ed - somewhat distracting - especially the letter L which suddenly makes the tongue appear but you don't see it otherwise.

imho, people's faces just don't move much when they talk... most people just talk slackjawed and expressionless unless it is public speaking.

I have been saving a Master Scene of my character with all her Mimic setup and call it "mimic ready". For me it hasn't gotten more complicated than that. (I try to render figures and background separate, it's faster)

But I just tested whether you can export the character with all the Mimic assignments (to get it into another Carrara scene). It is pretty easy. You have to drag all your poses and clips into a track (just one), then export your figure via the Browser / Scenes or Browser / Objects (use a group to save clothing, etc w the figure).... When you drag the figure into your new scene the NLA track is still there and all your Mimic assignments are attached to their poses.... In otherwords, all the poses export along with the figure by riding along in the NLA track. If you forget a pose it will not be saved with the figure and that assignment under Mimic will be blank.

You can't just "drag all the poses" onto the NLA track, they have to be dragged one-by-one, so that's a bit of work if you have a lot of poses...

Rottenham said:

DUDU_00001 said:

I believe that if you are accustomed with the keyframes, you should try to animate very simply at the beginning, the characters in Carrara.
Perhaps after having understood the facility to create movements, not very natural at the beginning, you will be able to plan to import files like .BVH or Aniblocks etc.. being perhaps modified in Carrara, but it is ideal to learn how to carry out oneself of animations at the beginning.
You must try the Puppeteer too !

I've looked at the supply of ready-made Aniblock animations. The selection is limited, and the subjects are specialized. Depending entirely on Aniblocks would limit my abilities. They're good for me right now, because now, I have 1,000 failures to each success. That stupid dance I made gave me encouragement. It reminded me of the reason I'm studying this subject. I needed to feel good.

I've played with Mimic too. I am satisfied with its lipsync abilities, but I may want to improve its facial expressions. When I get to that point, I'll study the keyframe editor. I've used the keyframe editor in CrazyTalk too, and I have some limited experience in tweaking it.

To make the character walk and speak at the same time is my goal. But I'll never learn the basics if I start having fun now.

BTW, why did you say I used Genesis?
..................

I agree with your sentiment about having fun while you're learning. If you're enjoying the journey, that's the important thing. Just don't get to impatient with us if we suggest a side trip or two along your road. ;-)

BTW, your video is a great first start.

DUDU_00001 said:

I believe that if you are accustomed with the keyframes, you should try to animate very simply at the beginning, the characters in Carrara.
Perhaps after having understood the facility to create movements, not very natural at the beginning, you will be able to plan to import files like .BVH or Aniblocks etc.. being perhaps modified in Carrara, but it is ideal to learn how to carry out oneself of animations at the beginning.
You must try the Puppeteer too !

I've looked at the supply of ready-made Aniblock animations. The selection is limited, and the subjects are specialized. Depending entirely on Aniblocks would limit my abilities. They're good for me right now, because now, I have 1,000 failures to each success. That stupid dance I made gave me encouragement. It reminded me of the reason I'm studying this subject. I needed to feel good.

I've played with Mimic too. I am satisfied with its lipsync abilities, but I may want to improve its facial expressions. When I get to that point, I'll study the keyframe editor. I've used the keyframe editor in CrazyTalk too, and I have some limited experience in tweaking it.

To make the character walk and speak at the same time is my goal. But I'll never learn the basics if I start having fun now.

BTW, why did you say I used Genesis?
..................

wcwilcox said:

Is not QuickTime X a 64bit app.

The module that Carrara uses is called QTkit (I believe).... It's not the same thing as QT Player (QTX). QTX is able to read and write to the old codecs but you have to enable them, as I understand it it's basically using QTkit to support the old codecs.

As I understand it, Carrara would have to drop QTkit altogether (or just keep it as legacy) and write a new render export tool that used coreimage (which would only work on Mac)…. As a side benefit it could utilize any coreimage filter with almost no overhead, but it would be limited to the new sanctioned codecs. Apple seems to prefer everyone save in one of 3 (or so) "qualities" based on mobile, LAN, or "lossless". They aren't that interested in the supporting the smorgasbord of codecs anymore…. A lot of newer programs have very simplified video export - CrazyTalk for example was re-written for mac and it's export optionss are similar to QTX, but without the old QTkit "expanded" options.

I agree with your comments about iClone and Daz. I have also used DAZ's Animate with the Animate motions that they sell. They are great if you only want one cycle of animation, but it doesn't blend cycles together very well.

I'm not sure what kind animation you are doing, but you might want to check out the new Realillusions Crazytalk Animator 2. It looks like you could render 8 views of a DAZ Character and then import those into animator 2 and get some good results.

I'm looking forward to trying it once A2 gets released.

Hi That Other Persona,

I'm glad that you ask about CrazyTalk for Mac OS because last year we released CrazyTalk7 which is the first Mac OS application from Reallusion.
We have already received many requests to port our other software into Mac. Its in our roadmaps but not sure on the dates. I actually just talked to one of our CT developers and it is confirmed that we will have a Mac version for CrazyTalk Animator 2. (This is due for mid-2014.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HQ-qIGt9KY

I understand on not wanting to run a virtual machine on your Mac. But like I said, I run iClone on my MacBook and rarely have any issues with it. Our company is already working on iClone6, but I am not sure if there will be a Mac Os version. Now don't quote me on that, since there is still no official word. =)

another good program for facially animating 2D images is Crazytalk by Reallusion
can be used on Daz renders too (and your family photographs and pets).

some collada works but is not saveable
I have gotten makehuman and my own Carrara rigging in via collada with bones influencing mesh but it falls apart saving as bones not "attached" to the mesh in a way studio recognizes.
FBX only static stuff works.
Carrara 8.5 beta does a good job of FBX import but is not transferable to studio, I can bring my iClone figures from pipeline into there talking with spring! (Genesis does not talk though iclone spring works the iclone/crazytalk blendshapes not recognized as morphs)

ingvarai said:

[
Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can't get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and "specialties". Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don't like it. Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because "strange" things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
Maya is perhaps what I need - but I'll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

-Ingvar

Hi Ingvar,

I just started a new Cinema 4d post,

thanks!

holly wetcircuit said:

Pic from this morning's test render Carrara to CrazyTalk... You can watch the animation here (click the text link at the top of the post for full quality)
http://carraracafe.com/forum-3/?cid=1&show=153#cid=1,tid=153

I'd like to add, however, that I'm not criticizing the technique you're using - simply adding to the Epic conversation. I say this because I really like the look that you have going on. Very nice!

I am currently saving out a whole slew of new action animations generically. Meaning with no other lighting or scene elements. Then I can drag these saved animated character files into any scene that I have previously saved. I create all of my scenes to work in such a way with very little extra tweaking required.

I sure love Carrara for being able to handle all I put it through! lol

Dartanbeck said:

So, Holly... this is very cool news - well... I don't think that I knew you were making a Space Opera. This whole post that you link to is very intriguing stuff. So... with CT, do you do the actual renders in Carrara and then morph the rendered image in CT? What's going on there? However it works... it looks really, really good!
On another note... are you porting your site over to the Cafe? It's gone, I tell you. Your site. It's... missing!

My site is still up...? http://www.3d.wetcircuit.com maybe it was slow or down for maintenance? I don't plan to give it up entirely, but I'd rather put my Carrara tutorials and freebies and stuff in a place where more people can find them... Plus the hassle of maintaining my own downloads and stuff.... I'll probably transition my site into more a general portfolio and 3D art. Put the Carrara info back into the community. Getting a new computer was a setback - hopefully once all the software gets settled I can start making cooler tutorials, longer animations, editing full length video, etc.

I posted a little more info about Crazytalk at the Cafe thread... I'm animating in Carrara too, but where I can cheat I'll try to fill in with CrazyTalk. Especially in the early kinematics stage... It animates quickly and it's not any weirder than Mimic, just a little different... and it's my real Carrara artwork so it shouldn't look too drastic when I switch back and forth...
http://carraracafe.com/forum-3/#cid=1,tid=153

Pic from this morning's test render Carrara to CrazyTalk... You can watch the animation here (click the text link at the top of the post for full quality)
http://carraracafe.com/forum-3/?cid=1&show=153#cid=1,tid=153

wow! the CrazyTalk forums are not so colorful... LOL

ReDave said:

]Lip synch dovrebbe funzionare in maniera decente. La mia ultima teoria, che non ho ancora provato, è che l'interpolazione cubica fa un po' di casino; c'è uno script gratuito di Casual per rimettere l'interpolazione sul lineare.
Se farlo in post-work va bene, dovrebbe esserci un modo legale di ottenere CrazyTalk 6, che appunto è fatto per far parlare un'immagine statica (in pratica gli fa l'interrogatorio).
Altrimenti c'è Zign Tracks 2, che è il migliore che conosca, ma funziona solo con le figure fino a V4/M4, e non dovrebbe funzionare con Genesis. Il problema di quest'ultimo è il costo, che però scende di 60% su Contentparadise per Black Friday, tranne che l'anno scorso mi hanno spiazzato e hanno fatto la promozione all'inizio di Novembre invece che alla fine; ma anche il problema di incollarsi palline verdi sulla faccia (!). Devono essere non lucide e naturlamente tirarle via può fare un po' male.

Uhm... Proverò a vedere di beccare qualcosa di quello che hai citato, magari trovo una versionbe di prova. Se ne trovo una anche a scadenza ma che mi fa salvare mi creo una decina di "chiacchiericci" standard e li applico, tanto in alcuni contesti non mi serve la precisione chirurgica, ma che perlomano non sembrino delle carpe immerse in acqua sporca!

Un piccolo dubbio: Cosa intendi per "Lip Synch"? C'era una funzione con quel nome in DAZ 3 ma nel 4.5 me lo scordo allegramente. C'è un metodo per averlo anche nella nuova versione?

*EDIT*
Cancella l'ultima parte, ragazzo!
Per curiosità ho googlato è ho trovato che esiste solo nelle versioni a 32 bit...
Posso dire, senza timore di smentite, che si tratta di una boiata? :sick:

ImagoPictures said:

Siccome sono un niubbo, e anche i niubbi mi danno del niubbo Pensa che a me le mie paperette mi danno del non-paperetta!
mi sto arrovellando per superare lo scoglio della parlantina.
Alla fine sono arrivato alla conclusione di utilizzare un programma esterno per creare dei BVH da spiaccicare in testa al modello e finalmente vedergli muovere le fauci in modo decente.
Purtroppo non me ne viene in mente nemmeno uno, sebbene ne abbia provato un paio tempo fa (per Anime Studio ce n'era uno che esportava in BVH mi pare). Qualcuno mi sa consigliare qualcosa, magari gratuito che il portafogli è portatore poco sano di vuoto spinto?

So if understand you well, I should first build a mask of my Buildings' image then put both the original building and the mask on the same plane?
As for the background , the problem is that of the continuity in the video. This will be actually the first minute or so the movie after it will be easier as the visitor's will view the site through the eyes of the skeleton .

The animation is not a problem, especially as it is possible to get pre animated figures in DAZ itself and I have also CrazyTalk to help me with that aspect; also I'm quite used about video an movie editing, I had a training in editing in the late 60s in a Lab in Paris at the end of my University studies.

Mimic Pro should definitely work with M3. You either have to make the dmc files yourself or contact DAZ and ask them for the file. Language is irrelevant as long as the typed text is transformed in the proper English phoneme. I suspect part of the problem with the realism in Lip-sync/Mimic is the fact that the DAZ Timeline uses cubic interpolation, so using Casual's script to change the interpolation to linear may help (keyMate does the same thin gif you own it).
Zign Tracks 2 does work with V4, according to the source, which I contacted and they sent me this screenshot to show how it's done without fiddling with the registry.
Another option may be CrazyTalk, which may still be on sale.

ingvarai said:

Muphasa said:

So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00
[..]
For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

Hi Muphasa :)
FWIW, Cinema 4D costs about $5100 here in Norway, if that is any comfort to you..
Nevertheless, I purchased it in May. I also purchased modo 601. So I spent very much money to "avoid" Carrara, which I have used 4 years now. First, about modo, it certainly is a superb tool for professional modelers, if you can live with a hopelessly unwieldy user interface. But for me it was a mistake, I want to sell my modo license..
Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can't get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and "specialties". Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don't like it. Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because "strange" things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
Maya is perhaps what I need - but I'll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

-Ingvar

thank you - you just made my day
skull

Muphasa said:

So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00
[..]
For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

Hi Muphasa :)
FWIW, Cinema 4D costs about $5100 here in Norway, if that is any comfort to you..
Nevertheless, I purchased it in May. I also purchased modo 601. So I spent very much money to "avoid" Carrara, which I have used 4 years now. First, about modo, it certainly is a superb tool for professional modelers, if you can live with a hopelessly unwieldy user interface. But for me it was a mistake, I want to sell my modo license..
Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can't get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and "specialties". Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don't like it. Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because "strange" things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
Maya is perhaps what I need - but I'll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

-Ingvar