1 - Might be related to my illiteracy and that's the issue of fireflies in Iray render. They always creep in even if i use the light coming with the set with vendors like DM. I shall be fixing or changing a lot o things in the post work but not something like this. Especially when they appear in some complicated geometric design on ancient monument sort of situation. I have lit up the scene upto the point i can bear but still they appear (so bad for the dark inside me, and what's the point in having those beautiful lights if you can't render a dark and gloomy scene).

Well 1 is pretty much due to my illetracy. Setting Noise Degrain filtering to 3 in Render settings (it's hidden by default) and Noise Degrain Radius to 5 as suggested in the forum did the magic and solved the firefly issues in my initial testing without any noticeable loss. I still stick with my point 2 (for personal use daz should offera solution to move the morph to some duf/inj file , and save us from the nightmare of putting back the required files)

2 (The question)  it's also one of the reason for morph id collissions

This is about Daz choise regarding preloading or reading figure morphs, so as your library grow genesis figures start loading in centuries. Can be useful for someone creating a face etc. where he has all morphs available and can be doing stuff on it. But what about  1 gazillion other cases where someone want a simple render. Riversoft or someone did create a utility that basically change name of the morphs to avoid loading which is sort of dirty hack. I didn't buy it because i have already done the heavy lifting of taking all morphs out of the system in similar structure and puts only those i need.  But it's still not a good hack.

So after this whole [rigmarole] actual question

Is there a simple way I can embed the morphs in the duf files (like good old days of Inj files). I did saw an example in some character by Rhiannon i bought from renderosity (Genesis 2 character) but the issue was I couldn't take it out. So i had to remove that figure and reload. So any form of Inj/rem pose possible (with morph embeded). The question is regarding all figures. I mean let's say I trace victoria 8 face morph and embed it in my pose file and remove it from data folder and it will appear as Victoria 8 and when reset it to 0 its effect zeroed out.

Best regards .and thanks a lot if your were patient enough to read till this point

toplyz233 said:

Hi! I'm trying to save head preset and body preset separately to make separate sliders, I mean head and body, not both at the same time. Gotta save the head node under the hip node and the one under the actor node, right? But when I do it, I don't have hip node then. But it do has hip node on the object area right side, so strange, what should I do?

I mean, it changed when I only exported the node actor/.../head, but it wasn't shaping correctly. And of course with not selecting hip/.../head, when I save the body, then reload it, both the body and head change. I think it has to do with I didn't save the objects under the hip node.
What should I do? I really don't know where I did wrong.

 Whoa. Before saving a shaping preset, first save the morph! Make the head morph, save it. Make the body morph, save it. [File > Save as > ... morphs assets]

Then dial the 2 in, and make a complete character morph as a Controller [be sure to reverse deformations], and save that.

Then clear the scene, load the figure, dial in your new morph(s) and save the shaping presets. Uncheck all to start with, then have it select only that which was changed. Open the drop down selections and make sure only what you desired to be included is.

{and consider "not" compressing the file -- makes reading it later on much easier}

crosswind said:

Poser uses injection while Daz uses pre-load, each way has the pros and cons of its own... But the root reason of long loading time still results from the great deal of DSON support files under those well-known data folders. In fact, lots of people are  'character & morph collectors' who are keen on installing character products and varieties of morph / shape packages even if many of the 'products' are garbage. Moreover many of them don't understand the 'side-effect' of doing so, let alone the killer - 'duplicate formulas'....
BTW, 'thanks to' those 'vendors' esp. on some 3rd-party sites... Customers pay your bills, you steal their time  just because you're no pro or ignorant of these matters... or push your luck from time to time... Anyway, this is the real life in 3D world, but people still need to resist the impulse and make choices wisely...

Injection still requires channels for the morph to be injected into, and grouping data - that is what soem of the ExP files used by the foruth generation figures are, while the older figures had to have special CR2 (figure) files with the channels defined (which made mixing morph sets a pain). .pmd files can be injected into a figure without needing pre-defined channels, but those had a big memory impact initially.

Poser uses injection while Daz uses pre-load, each way has the pros and cons of its own... But the root reason of long loading time still results from the great deal of DSON support files under those well-known data folders. In fact, lots of people are  'character & morph collectors' who are keen on installing character products and varieties of morph / shape packages even if many of the 'products' are garbage. Moreover many of them don't understand the 'side-effect' of doing so, let alone the killer - 'duplicate formulas'....
BTW, 'thanks to' those 'vendors' esp. on some 3rd-party sites... Customers pay your bills, you steal their time  just because you're no pro or ignorant of these matters... or push your luck from time to time... Anyway, this is the real life in 3D world, but people still need to resist the impulse and make choices wisely...

plasma_ring said:

I ended up using his morph for the G9 remake of the character in my icon, and he works really well with other shapes. It can be challenging to give nonhuman characters realistic facial features without throwing something out of balance, but Nahuel is like an actor who can pull off a lot of different roles and costumes easily. It's cool seeing the examples in this thread because he looks like a different person in each one, but his features are still very distinctive and charismatic.

Incredible! I totally see his characteristic nose and jawline there. Excellent work and thanks for sharing it! 

I ended up using his morph for the G9 remake of the character in my icon, and he works really well with other shapes. It can be challenging to give nonhuman characters realistic facial features without throwing something out of balance, but Nahuel is like an actor who can pull off a lot of different roles and costumes easily. It's cool seeing the examples in this thread because he looks like a different person in each one, but his features are still very distinctive and charismatic.

tonyjas46_1cccd9144e said:

With Genesis 9 having both male and female characters in the same content directory the loading times are now doubled if you have a lot of content. Clothing, matrerials poses are only referenced in the content directory BUT MORPHS are all loaded as soon as you select a figure. Isn't it time DAZ studio only loaded the essential base morphs for a figure and then selectively load all the required character morphs for that particular folder?

With V4 we had a list of optional morphs appear when V4 was selected to load. Surely Daz can use the same principle with later genesis versions. Seems to make a lot of sense when DAZ makes its income from content and not the program. I am reluctant to keep buying more characters when each set of morphs gets added to the existing list. I tend now to modify the base figure to create my characters for this reason.

Currently the only workaround for this problem is the have two morph directories and name one Morphs and the other Morphs zzz (or similar) then copy as needed from one to the other and delete or move to the Morphs zzz when not needed. An other option is to find all the sub folders under the Morphs folder and add "zzz" to the end of each one not used or needed. All in all this is a slow and time consuming process.

Hi, I'm still using G8, but I've basically solved the issue with this: https://www.daz3d.com/turbo-loader-for-genesis-8-and-81

Maybe RiverSoftArt will make a version for G9. It's a must for creators who have a ton of content (like me). I do comics, so once I've created the characters and their variations I don't need all the morphs, with this tool I let Daz know what morphs I'm using right now, and everything loads so much faster. If you want to turn on or off every morph, there's a way too.

With Genesis 9 having both male and female characters in the same content directory the loading times are now doubled if you have a lot of content. Clothing, matrerials poses are only referenced in the content directory BUT MORPHS are all loaded as soon as you select a figure. Isn't it time DAZ studio only loaded the essential base morphs for a figure and then selectively load all the required character morphs for that particular folder?

With V4 we had a list of optional morphs appear when V4 was selected to load. Surely Daz can use the same principle with later genesis versions. Seems to make a lot of sense when DAZ makes its income from content and not the program. I am reluctant to keep buying more characters when each set of morphs gets added to the existing list. I tend now to modify the base figure to create my characters for this reason.

Currently the only workaround for this problem is the have two morph directories and name one Morphs and the other Morphs zzz (or similar) then copy as needed from one to the other and delete or move to the Morphs zzz when not needed. An other option is to find all the sub folders under the Morphs folder and add "zzz" to the end of each one not used or needed. All in all this is a slow and time consuming process.

I bought the Teeth Master Control for Genesis 8 Male morph set as I wanted to be able to adjust the teeth on some of my gen 8 and gen 8.1 figures.  After buying and installing Teeth Master Control for Genesis 8 Male I was able to make adjustments to the teeth which was cool.  After I made adjustments to a character and saved it, I went to customize a new character.  I noticed that when I adjusted his mouth via expressions or by manually adjusting the jaw poses that the the top first premolars and most of the teeth on the lower jaw are messed up.  I closed the scene and opened up a brand new dev 8.1 character in a brand new scene to see if the issue still persisted, and it did.  Attached is a screen shot showing the character with his teeth missing below his gums.  This is the base 8.1 male dev figure which I have not applied any customization to.  If I open a gen 8 male character, the teeth move properly when you open close the jaw, so the issue seems to be only the 8.1 male figure.

Essentially the steps shortly before the problem occurred was I installed Teeth Master Control for Genesis 8 Male. I used it to make adjustments to one of my highly mixed morph characters. Then when I was happy with the end result and saved my scene, I used shape splitter to merge all of the morphs of my custom character into 1 stand alone morph no longer dependent on the previous morphs.  I tested the new character morph out to make sure it worked fine, which it did.  Then I loaded a new 8.1 male dev figure to start tweaking which is when I discovered the teeth no longer stuck to the jaw when manipulating it.

Does anyone know how I can fix this?  Thanks.

Faeryl Womyn said:

The only other thing I can think of and it's more time consuming then a script, take the Genesis you're working on and the outfit and bring them into Blender or Hexagon or whatever program you use and just make the outfit fit the model and export the outfit only to obj and import to Daz and apply the Transfer Utility and, if you're game, dforce options.

That doesn't seem related to the problem of positioning wearable props at all.

johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

Lantia Vertel said:

After reading the asset in the first step, it should be trivial to check what you should unload/destroy, and what you shoud load/create...

That's absolutely non-trivial and from your assumption it seems that you do not understand how Daz Studio, and 3D assets in general, work.

In order to compare two scenes, you have to compare the full scene tree hierarchy (recursion). That's already computationaly more expensive than just deleting and loading everything from scratch.

For the sake of an argument, let's say you have a simple scene with just one G8F figure.

In your current scene she is wearing a bikini, in the one you want to load she is wearing a dress. When you start loading new scene Daz Studio would according to you need to somehow determine that the figures are the same. Let's say that's an easy task (even if it isn't). Your ideal outcome would be Daz Studio unloading bikini and loading dress. How do you propose they determine what should be kept? What if the figure is also wearing sunglasses with the bikini? Should they remain and be paired with a dress or be removed? What if the new figure differs in just one morph state or it has different face texture (makeup)? Is it still the same figure?

That is already a complex and hard to define task, and we haven't even considered world XYZ coordinates of the figure (what should happen if they aren't the same? Should the figure move to a new position or not?), morphs which are dialed in (should old morphs remain and be combined with new morphs or be fully replaced with new morphs?), geografts, geoshells, deformers, cameras, lights, multiple objects, instancing, etc, etc.

Trust me when I say this, doing that would just make things slower.

Right now, the only things that make scene loading slow are:

1. Having too much installed 3D assets (the less you have the faster your scenes load, and this is especially true for figure morphs)
2. The efficiency of find/add/remove operations on data structures used to represent scene objects as GUI elements in memory (this is what could probably be further optimized by Daz 3D)

So if you want your scene load time to be faster my advice is to have two separate Daz Studio installs (release and beta), and two separate content folders. In release content you keep only the minimum amount of 3D assets required for working on your current project, and everything else keep in beta content.

Most people complaining about slow scene loading have hundreds of gigabytes of accumulated 3D assets installed -- it's like having a cluttered desk and then complaining you can't find that one particular paper you need quickly.

You can easily test if doing what I suggest would help in your particular workflow -- just move everything out of your content directory to a safe place, then load the scene, scroll through the missing files dialog, and copy only those missing files from the safe place to your content directory. Once you have all the files used by the scene try loading it, I'd be surprised if you reported back that it isn't considerably faster.

Hope this helps.

Listen my friend, don't want to have a pointless discussion and I really think you are being defensive here. I think you are asserting a lot which is not true and I don't really have time to explain point by point each thing. Just looking the start of the comment:
 

johndoe_36eb90b0 said:

In order to compare two scenes, you have to compare the full scene tree hierarchy (recursion). That's already computationaly more expensive than just deleting and loading everything from scratch.

First, that's not recursion (you can implement a diff recursively, but you don't need to) and in any case, with a recursive implementation or not, that's nothing for even a low spec pc, it will take a few ms. Second: Every asset/resource should be indexed in a pool for direct access (that's one of the reasons for having a unique id for each thing) which leaves diff problem in nothing. It's very basic resource manamgent. Third: In the worst case scenario (the indexed pool is not part of the scene file (at the moment it's not, and I don't think that needs to change) you only need to read the scene file in a single pass, which is what it happens now. That would be dramatically faster than regenerating everything from scratch, and definitely no way to be slower as you say.

Don't want to continue this discussion as it doesn't seem constructive or productive. I'm an experienced dev (20+ years of commercial experience (7 in graphics)) (so I think I know what I was tallking about), found a basic thing that could (should) improve the performance when loading scenes, I left my suggestion here hoping it helps. But now, seeing how this comunity receips feedback and proposals I understand why Daz works as it does. This explains everything.

The only other thing I can think of and it's more time consuming then a script, take the Genesis you're working on and the outfit and bring them into Blender or Hexagon or whatever program you use and just make the outfit fit the model and export the outfit only to obj and import to Daz and apply the Transfer Utility and, if you're game, dforce options.

PixelSploiting said:

He looks great, but I think the only interesting items from the bundle are explosion FX and the unifom (and the uniform is only basic everyday overalls no other kit). I've no shortage of gun props.

Ditto for me. The single item discount stacking and tokens make it feasible to make my own bundle rather than buying the April Inanity bundles. I haven't seen the stovepipe hairstyle since the 80's, but I hear it's being recycled. The raggedy Antoine yarn braids seem to be a more common hairstyle than that.

Lawrence's skin looks just like Angela's skin with different normals. If we still had separate genders, then repeating a skin for both genders would be defensible. But this doesn't make much sense. His head morph seems well-made (since he looks stoic, perhaps it won't matter how well he takes expressions), but his bends look like they need some FBM/CBS love. Don't know what's up with the clotshot calamari vascularity.

Still, Genesis 8 black men were so obviously painted that I only used them at distance. Genesis 8.1 black skin looked great, and Genesis 9 now has two versions of one skin that looks amazing.

stripe6499_9253833ae8 said:

I had something similar with a G8 figure, and that turned out to be the DForce Sea Salt hair I was using on the figure. Even with a massively upgraded pc, I still can't move a figure around, using that hair. Try removing any hair products and see if you still have that issue?

That could certainly be one culprit, as when one uses the dial on the character the first time (reading the deltas for the morph), the morph is also transfered to any and all fitted items and if the item (hair) has a dense geometry it may very well take some time.

Is it possible to parent a garment to a genesis character using transfer utliity - but without deforming the garment?
This leaves a lot of artefacts, predominantly on buttons, that can't be cleaned up with weight mapping because the mesh becomes deformed as a default state post transferring weights.

[attached imgs showing before transfer, after transfer, and transfer settings]
I'm more familiar with Blender's 'Parent with Automatic Weights'  feature and then adjusting weight maps. In Blender, parenting/weighting an asset to an armeture doesn't deform the model. For this use case I can't really do the weight painting in Blender unfortunately.

I've tried to deselect the 'Fit to Source Figure' option, which solves my problem to some degree but that means I can't move the garment or apply morphs.
Does anyone with some experience with Transfer Utility have any suggestions to help with this issue please?
Thanks
 

Lantia Vertel said:

After reading the asset in the first step, it should be trivial to check what you should unload/destroy, and what you shoud load/create...

That's absolutely non-trivial and from your assumption it seems that you do not understand how Daz Studio, and 3D assets in general, work.

In order to compare two scenes, you have to compare the full scene tree hierarchy (recursion). That's already computationaly more expensive than just deleting and loading everything from scratch.

For the sake of an argument, let's say you have a simple scene with just one G8F figure.

In your current scene she is wearing a bikini, in the one you want to load she is wearing a dress. When you start loading new scene Daz Studio would according to you need to somehow determine that the figures are the same. Let's say that's an easy task (even if it isn't). Your ideal outcome would be Daz Studio unloading bikini and loading dress. How do you propose they determine what should be kept? What if the figure is also wearing sunglasses with the bikini? Should they remain and be paired with a dress or be removed? What if the new figure differs in just one morph state or it has different face texture (makeup)? Is it still the same figure?

That is already a complex and hard to define task, and we haven't even considered world XYZ coordinates of the figure (what should happen if they aren't the same? Should the figure move to a new position or not?), morphs which are dialed in (should old morphs remain and be combined with new morphs or be fully replaced with new morphs?), geografts, geoshells, deformers, cameras, lights, multiple objects, instancing, etc, etc.

Trust me when I say this, doing that would just make things slower.

Right now, the only things that make scene loading slow are:

1. Having too much installed 3D assets (the less you have the faster your scenes load, and this is especially true for figure morphs)
2. The efficiency of find/add/remove operations on data structures used to represent scene objects as GUI elements in memory (this is what could probably be further optimized by Daz 3D)

So if you want your scene load time to be faster my advice is to have two separate Daz Studio installs (release and beta), and two separate content folders. In release content you keep only the minimum amount of 3D assets required for working on your current project, and everything else keep in beta content.

Most people complaining about slow scene loading have hundreds of gigabytes of accumulated 3D assets installed -- it's like having a cluttered desk and then complaining you can't find that one particular paper you need quickly.

You can easily test if doing what I suggest would help in your particular workflow -- just move everything out of your content directory to a safe place, then load the scene, scroll through the missing files dialog, and copy only those missing files from the safe place to your content directory. Once you have all the files used by the scene try loading it, I'd be surprised if you reported back that it isn't considerably faster.

Hope this helps.

Faeryl Womyn said:

There is a converter from G8 to G9
https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/93219/g8fm-pose-transfer-to-g9

I do have a convertor, and it's great for poses, but sadly useless for wearables.   

the villain

daz studio

intermediate

Modifying characters with blender's sculpting function is my main interest in the moment.

Creating the scar in the face of the rat and the full body morph for the kitten was easyer than the controle of dForce hair in DS,

Slowly I'm getting an idea, what all the parameters under "simulate" are doing.

He's so pretty and exactly the morph I needed for a character I couldn't nail down. I have exactly zero use for military stuff, so he's all I'm getting; I might wait a day and see if they spring an alternate theme or something.

So, Angela's brother is into the store. He's had morph fits in a few things, so it was clear he was coming, if not when. (Been a while since they let that happen.)

Don't think I want all of either bundle, but we shall see.

The combinations with him look pretty good.