For figures with separate head and body morphs, be careful to only morph one area at a time in the hijab [here is where reverse deformations helps when making the 2nd morph].

There were 'no' extra big bumps on the top when I made a couple of FHMs.

https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/No-Big-Bumps-On-Head-970584247

UnifiedBrain said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

https://www.facebook.com/1653360584/videos/1443158313167054/

Wendy, I have another question about this video.  How did you do the strobe-ish light effect (light flickering on the walls) about halfway through?  I assume that is is supposed to be candle flame, but I don't think that the Carrara fire primitive casts a flicker like that.  Or does it?

no I used bulbs with animated power and effects, the flames are morph targets also animated, I oscillate the tweeners 

James said:

Hai @Catherine3678ab

Thank you for your time testing it.

The lump/bump always happens only when I tried to make a FBM morph.
With or without dforce clearance.
I read a couple of times of crosswind and your writtings.
The steps that both of you didn't do is making an FBM morph.
(I hope I get the technical term correct.)
Basically what both of you did is making a new conforming cloth to a body.
That's why both of you use transfer utility.
Which won't show the problem. As myself didn't find any problem when doing it myself.
If there were 5 bodies and I did steps like both of you did. I'm sure there'll be zero problem.

The problem only appears when I'm trying to make a FBM morph  (or is it FHM morph?)
So... my steps:
1. I put the hijab in a certain G9 figure. Usually there will be a bit of deformation.
2. Sent it to 3D editor as obj, blender or whatever. Fix it.
3. Import it back through morph loader pro to make the FBM morph.
Both of you didn't use the morph loader pro.
Aren't steps 1-3 how PA makes FBM morph?
Could you... try it with the hijab?
Maybe you could find something wrong, either me or the G9.
If you have the time of course.
 

Sure, I'll give it a go next round. 

Something to watch for with any FBM or for a particular character, is which morph(s) are in play. For eg. There can be a FHM and a FBM - dialing in either one will only affect the Head or the Body - or there is dialing in the "controller" morph which does 2 things, it dials in both the FHM and FBM AND it dials in any additional morphs required for a particular character [i.e. height].

Hai @Catherine3678ab

Thank you for your time testing it.

The lump/bump always happens only when I tried to make a FBM morph.
With or without dforce clearance.
I read a couple of times of crosswind and your writtings.
The steps that both of you didn't do is making an FBM morph.
(I hope I get the technical term correct.)
Basically what both of you did is making a new conforming cloth to a body.
That's why both of you use transfer utility.
Which won't show the problem. As myself didn't find any problem when doing it myself.
If there were 5 bodies and I did steps like both of you did. I'm sure there'll be zero problem.

The problem only appears when I'm trying to make a FBM morph  (or is it FHM morph?)
So... my steps:
1. I put the hijab in a certain G9 figure. Usually there will be a bit of deformation.
2. Sent it to 3D editor as obj, blender or whatever. Fix it.
3. Import it back through morph loader pro to make the FBM morph.
Both of you didn't use the morph loader pro.
Aren't steps 1-3 how PA makes FBM morph?
Could you... try it with the hijab?
Maybe you could find something wrong, either me or the G9.
If you have the time of course.

And not to be overly concerned about making a million FBM/FHM morphs ... think you'll find that IF the garment is made to the Default G9, it will auto-follow pretty nicely for many of the available figures. Right now I do not have many to test with, one older woman and one gorilla for example. And in none of the shapes did strange lumps appear in the top of the headdress.
 

Not really:

Just a few points and not made in a way to invalidate anyone elses observations or criticisms, but maybe just to bring in a little context from a content creator.

Looking at most of the criticism it tends to boil down to the form is off somehow. There does seem to be a little uncanny valley going on which gives that feeling of something being off, making it hard to say exactly where the issue is. There are a few more obvious things such as the associated mane and tail not being perfect, lack of feather hair and perhaps some less than accurate poses that do not flatter the horse 3 rigging.

What I have attempted to do with the Morph pack is to add capability to the model to make small adjustments to move towards a more viewer preferential Horse shape. Each morph is targeted to a particular aspect and will alter the rigging and correctives accordingly. For example with the neck we have 12 targeted morphs some of which are: Neck shorter, Neck longer, Neck Arch, Neck thicker, Neck top height, Neck body bulk etc. With hundreds of these morphs you can create your own shape or alter existing shapes to address concerns you may have  The Shapes are created to give a goto start for a particular breed and were all made from the morph pack with specilised correctives added for each shape (Over 100 correctives for the set). For example with the heavy horses there is nothing stopping you from dialing up the neck and hoove values higher if you would like to. With most shapes I tried to keep the changes reasonable to avoid entering into the area of caricature (Something that has irked me with other 3D horses). Maybe some places I could of pushed them out a bit further, but really there is nothing stopping the end user dialing things a bit higher if they prefer.

Some of the criticism here goes beyond what is possible to include in a shape and morph packs but I do value all of the input and as I have said before whether lavish praise or harsh criticism I do take everything into consideration when moving forward. Please just keep in mind that we are all creators working with the tools that we have as imperfect as they are at times and miraculous at others. Honestly I still believe Horse 3 is a step forward in the realm of 3D equines and will continue to improve over time.

At the moment I am working on a set of Horse 2 UVs for Horse 3 which will allow the use of all existing Horse 2 materials on Horse 3 to expand capability. Please let me know if you have anything you would really like to see and I can add it to my worklist. (Yes, mane, tail and feathering are on the list ;))

Thanks all.

MelissaGT said:

tsroemi said:

Richard Haseltine said:

semperequstri said:

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

I can't imagine DA, or Daz, would be willing to do a full rework but if you can point out soem of the issues it may be possible to offer workarounds or incorporate them into a new product of some kind.

This would also be really helpful for people like me who don't know much about horses. Could you just elaborate on what's striking you the most as being inaccurate? Because being the clueless no-horsey that I am, I thought it all looked rather fine!

Here is what my "horsey" friend had to say regarding the new shapes - 

The light horse breeds who basically all look fairly similar aren’t bad. The heavy breeds they missed basically every mark except “larger head”. Draft breeds have a kinda apple bottom build with close set hocks, their legs are heavy and thick with big hooves, necks are wide set and heavy, and the feather isn’t there either for the Shire/Clydesdale/etc.  The hocks [should] almost touch in the back. It’s for pulling heavy loads and for walking crop lines basically

She's also not a fan of the overall head shape since DH3 dropped...the worst offender being that super high forehead. Shapes aside, the rigging is also off, particularly in the back end. The legs move like bent pool noodles rather than...legs. There's just so much about DH3 that is broken. I really respect DA for fighting the good fight and putting stuff out for it, but...honestly it just needs to be taken down to the ground and rebuilt at this point. I don't know enough about modeling and rigging to say if it could be fixed or not. And I don't know who originally built DH3 (I don't want to sound harsh). The only place I have seen DH3 looking good is in DA's artistic promos. That's it.

When you look at something like the Hivewire Horse...and how polished it is still to this day (despite it being how old now?) and then you look at DH3...there's still no contest. 

Thanks very much for this clarification! So it's really more about the shapes than the morph pack. I see, fortunately I'm only interested in the morphs themselves. The shapes did appear a bit off even to me as well, since I've at least seen quite a few foals around where I live, and they do look different, not so much like just a smaller, thinner horse. But then again, I don't know the least bit about horses. Will be getting the morph pack, since there seems nothing generally wrong with that, and thus have lots more versatility with the new horsey. 

crosswind said:

marble said:

1) I shall revisit that Jay tutorial. I've probably watched it before but my memory is atrocious.

2) My initial question was really to do with the morphs included in the garment and how to add a shape - just like those listed in the screenshot (attached).

Yea, that's great!

3) I use the Darkside style which is a little harder to read than the others. I have adjusted the colours now so that I have a little more contrast in those boxes.

Looks better !

4) Should I be using that Delta Only option each time I adjust clothing with a morph imported by MLP?

Yes, as long as you export an 'existing single morph' for fixing, use 'Reverse Deformations : Yes' + 'Overwrite Existing: Delta Only' when importing with MLP.

When you create a single dial of your character, normally - 'Reverse Deformations : No' + 'Overwrite Existing: Make Unique' ...

 

Ah - I just did a couple of single dial body shapes before reading this and I did say Yes to Reverse Deformations. Will that be a problem? They shape dial seems to work fine so what would be the consequences?

UPDATE: I discovered that when I tried to apply a pose to the saved morphed figure it distorted horribly. I guess that answers my own question about consequences. I wish I hadn't deleted the original morphed character after I saved the single morph dial.

UPDATE 2: I give up. No matter what I do or how I export/import the morphed figure, it looks fine in zero pose but the moment I try to apply any pose it looks like Miss Elastic having walked through a propeller.

tsroemi said:

Richard Haseltine said:

semperequstri said:

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

I can't imagine DA, or Daz, would be willing to do a full rework but if you can point out soem of the issues it may be possible to offer workarounds or incorporate them into a new product of some kind.

This would also be really helpful for people like me who don't know much about horses. Could you just elaborate on what's striking you the most as being inaccurate? Because being the clueless no-horsey that I am, I thought it all looked rather fine!

Here is what my "horsey" friend had to say regarding the new shapes - 

The light horse breeds who basically all look fairly similar aren’t bad. The heavy breeds they missed basically every mark except “larger head”. Draft breeds have a kinda apple bottom build with close set hocks, their legs are heavy and thick with big hooves, necks are wide set and heavy, and the feather isn’t there either for the Shire/Clydesdale/etc.  The hocks [should] almost touch in the back. It’s for pulling heavy loads and for walking crop lines basically

She's also not a fan of the overall head shape since DH3 dropped...the worst offender being that super high forehead. Shapes aside, the rigging is also off, particularly in the back end. The legs move like bent pool noodles rather than...legs. There's just so much about DH3 that is broken. I really respect DA for fighting the good fight and putting stuff out for it, but...honestly it just needs to be taken down to the ground and rebuilt at this point. I don't know enough about modeling and rigging to say if it could be fixed or not. And I don't know who originally built DH3 (I don't want to sound harsh). The only place I have seen DH3 looking good is in DA's artistic promos. That's it.

When you look at something like the Hivewire Horse...and how polished it is still to this day (despite it being how old now?) and then you look at DH3...there's still no contest. 

morrisonmp said:

FSMCDesigns said:

While I agree, to be fair, G8 has the same issues depending on the pose. Also, just because you see something that you think is off, doesn't mean another, namely a PA sees it also. It's quite possible that they looked at exactly what you are looking at and didn't see anything wrong with it,or even thought it looks good.

I have been working with G9 for awhile now and for the most part, haven't had any issues, but there have been a few poses where the arm bend is bad and yesterday with an extreme pose with the legs bent a certain way and it looked horrible. So hopefull;y there is a PA working on a bend fix product just like G8 has

That's not a posing problem though... that's the character with their arms at rest at their sides. It's baked in to the figure.

 

I agree that armpit area does not look great.

But that image is not default pose, it is an upperarm down pose, which usually needs a JCM/CBS for at least the arm-lats interactions, which then needs a second corrective for when the upperarm is down but the shoulder moves forward and back a the same time, and then another for when the upperarm moves forward and back at the same time.

Most PA's dont bother adding those (or any) JCM/CBS. We cant force them to do so, and nobody's forcing us to buy products that showcase bad bends.

If you like a character's face, body, and skin, you can always just never dial in the body morph. 

Many thanks to Design Anvil for the morph and material add-ons for the Horse 3

well seems like I've been hit by the forum not letting me up load the picture ,gonna try something ... nope didn't work .....oh well

OMG!! iT WORKED!!

semperequstri said:

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

I have to agree. I put off purchasing Horse 3 in hopes that addons would come out to make it better, at least better than Horse 2, but no disrespect, the latest offerings don't do that for me

I agree with the others on maybe posting images of the specifics that are off so that maybe they can be addressed since it seems many are happy with it just looking like a horse in general.

lilweep said:

Wish people would post images with diagrams and arrows pointing out what their complaints are.

Also claim that there is some 'fundamental flaw in the G9 skeleton' is likely unfounded based on OP, as what is described (without pictures and evidence might i add) is a morph/sculpt issue, and JCM/CBS issue, not a G9 skeleton issue.

I recognise topology flow of G9 could be better, but that's not going to outright make *checks notes* the "arms just attach to the torso really oddly"

Cool. So, look at https://www.daz3d.com/koo-madee-hd-for-genesis-9 and check out the 5th and 6th promo pictures. That arm is a travesty. This is one of the most egregious but it's a problem with a lot of G9s. Some are better. But all have this issue to some extent. 

Okay had a little time so brought the Hijab into D/S. Sent it over the bridge to Hexagon. Made it to fit better on the Default G9. Sent it back over the bridge to D/S as a Prop. [removed the original Hijab]

Ran the transfer utility to make the obj into clothing [bones for a full bodysuit 'cause it's covering a number of areas], smoothing on, Added a dforce sim thing and ran one simulation [I normally start with 30 seconds on the timeline]. Sent that Hijab back over the bridge to Hexagon and smoothed it out a bit.

btw - confirmed, yes there are no holes and no n-gons :-)

Then sent the Hijab back over to D/S as an .obj and fixed up the surfaces. Ran the Transfer Utility and made it into clothing.

And not to be overly concerned about making a million FBM/FHM morphs ... think you'll find that IF the garment is made to the Default G9, it will auto-follow pretty nicely for many of the available figures. Right now I do not have many to test with, one older woman and one gorilla for example. And in none of the shapes did strange lumps appear in the top of the headdress.

And of course the images won't load. Back in a minute with a link.

Here we go:

https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/Minerva-9-970462641

https://www.deviantart.com/catherine3678ab/art/1-for-default-G9-970462638

Gogger said:

Catherine3678ab said:

Keep an eye out for something from DesignAnvil ;-) Teaser posted over at DA :-)

Bunch of new horse stuff! Yayy!
https://www.daz3d.com/da-ultimate-shape-pack-for-horse-3--breeds

https://www.daz3d.com/the-da-daz-horse-3-pro-material-set

https://www.daz3d.com/da-ultimate-morph-pack-for-daz-horse-3

 

Yeah! And with all those nice discounts price came out pretty good too. [for once I actually had a few points that worked!]

Richard Haseltine said:

semperequstri said:

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

I can't imagine DA, or Daz, would be willing to do a full rework but if you can point out soem of the issues it may be possible to offer workarounds or incorporate them into a new product of some kind.

This would also be really helpful for people like me who don't know much about horses. Could you just elaborate on what's striking you the most as being inaccurate? Because being the clueless no-horsey that I am, I thought it all looked rather fine!

semperequstri said:

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

I can't imagine DA, or Daz, would be willing to do a full rework but if you can point out soem of the issues it may be possible to offer workarounds or incorporate them into a new product of some kind.

outrider42 said:
as the AI would be effectively competing against Daz store products. Why would you need buy a cyber scape environment if you could just ask for one from the AI during a render? It would not be compatible with the Daz business model.  I do think AI generators could be bad for Daz Studio as it could pull away some users, but Daz will always have its dedicated users for one reason or another. I am aware of the beta test for the Tafi text to 3D character thing. It is a totally different beast from image generation. It is essentially a text prompt controlled Daz Studio from the description.

Maybe I should start my reply by saying, I never made a claim that AI is the most creative tool, or is better, equal, less than, a Human artist....
But I was comparing AI to Daz...   and I think that there are similarities.  And your last paragraph or so (quoted above) speaks to the point I was trying to make vis-à-vis Daz versus AI.
At the end of the day, throw Aiko into a scene and dress her up... how much different will she look than anyone elses Aiko?  Yes, you can go to your morph dials (previously purchased) and make her nose fatter.... or with AI, use a big fat nose prompt. 
Daz may always have its core users... but as AI and its controls get better (and for the sake of argument, AI art for the masses is really only 2-3 years old now), that dedicated fan base may find it harder and harder to justify that $129 Surfin Safari Bundle when all you'll have to do is put in the prompt words  "... Realistic sufer on a red surfboard riding a 60' wave"
Time will tell though.... I just hope Daz 5 gets here fast.
 

vwrangler said:

And it seems that support for Horse 3 has appeared.

Nice to see, but those new morph and shape packs... YIKES! I appreciate the PA's efforts, but the morph and shape packs are ( to be polite) way less than accurate. I would LOVE to support Horse 3 and the PA's who are making content as I do a LOT of equestrian art. But I just CAN'T- sorry.

Becasue 1st one - : has better resolution, a cleaner face, more balanced light, more symmetrical, plainer smile, less hair, etc. etc. ~~ Transfer with Face Transfer, FaceGen or sth. similar, then use partial head morphs to tweak and finetune the head/face...

1) The templates are not 'morphs'... They were intentionally designed and made (with a geometry and proper weights) for the purpose of auto-fit and conversion, so it's meaningless and useless to 'bring' them into an existing G9's garment.

2) However, if you make a garment for G9, you may use a template which has the same or similar 'shape' as the garment you make when fitting it to G9 with Transfer Utility.