TheNathanParable said:

Wonderland said:

I'm sorry if this was already asked but can all the KindredArts shaders and lights for Filament work in FilaToon? What about the glass shader? If not, is there a glass shader for FilaToon? 

You can use the glass shader in the same scene as FilaToon, but it won't have a toon outline. My Big Boi Bathing render uses the glass shader on the water droplets: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6736226870624256#gallery=newest&page=1&image=1353125

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Oh, cool idea. I guess you can use the Add Toon Line shader after. I'm surprised it took till now for me to even play with Filament!

Wonderland said:

I'm sorry if this was already asked but can all the KindredArts shaders and lights for Filament work in FilaToon? What about the glass shader? If not, is there a glass shader for FilaToon? 

I think Kindredarts shaders are Iray based so no they won't work in Filament. 

Wonderland said:

I'm sorry if this was already asked but can all the KindredArts shaders and lights for Filament work in FilaToon? What about the glass shader? If not, is there a glass shader for FilaToon? 

You can use the glass shader in the same scene as FilaToon, but it won't have a toon outline. My Big Boi Bathing render uses the glass shader on the water droplets: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6736226870624256#gallery=newest&page=1&image=1353125

I'm sorry if this was already asked but can all the KindredArts shaders and lights for Filament work in FilaToon? What about the glass shader? If not, is there a glass shader for FilaToon? 

Cybersox said:

Of course, peer to peer support here kind of has to be exceptional, given how much nuts and bolts real support there is from DAZ itself.  I remember a time, not that long ago, when DAZ customer service was amazingly good, but now the response to everything seems to be to file a ticket, with a large percentage of CS requests are now taking months and even years to get addressed.  I'd say that there's not a much more telling way for a company to show how much interest it has in supporting it's core business and customers... except for the fact that this is also the company that hasn't bothered to update their basic software manuals in the ten years since the days of Genesis 2, so the "basic" and "User" manuals don't even mention the current primary render engine, Iray, or what is now the secondary render engine, Filament, D-force cloth or hair, volumetrics, anything to do with the use of geometry shells, Face Transfer 1 or 2, anything about of the last four base figure systems including the new methods of creating expressions, and DAZ Connect, let alone Fillatoon or any of this latest new batches of features that are supposed to be the selling benefits of DAZ premier... As a result, for DAZ Studio to survive as a viable system, it's pretty much fallen on the more experienced users to step up and fill that void.        

I would like to +1 this several thousand times. When I complain about having to go to the forums for anything resembling actual documentation, this is what I mean. I really do appreciate the high level of peer-to-peer support, but I wish I didn't have to rely upon it.

If I'm honest, I don't post in the forums very much because I feel negatively about Daz as a company -- I feel that they are moving in directions, in terms of their stewardship of the product, that are bad and will eventually sink the whole thing ... and since I now rely on Studio as my major creative tool, having it go down in flames, or change to being something that would strand my thousands of dollars of purchased resources, is a nightmare for me to contemplate. I've already made battle plans for when I have to "freeze" my version of Studio so that hopefully I can get several more years of use out of it.

Criticism of Daz is unwelcome on these forums (and I can't really fault them for that, after all, they're *product* forums owned and run by the same people who make the product -- why would they allow people throwing bricks in their own back yard?)

(NOTE: I would like to make clear that this is not a criticism of the forum moderators, who have a difficult mandate to follow and in general do it well. I mean, yes, I consider forum policy a bit too restrictive, but that's not their fault, and they have to enforce 'the law' as Daz has dictated it.)

Richard Haseltine said:

They should appear in both, but only once the settings node has been created (from the Create menu, by using Iray or Filament Drawstyle, or by doing an Iray render). I certainly see them in Render Settings then. This has been the case for a while now, I think.

So something must be going wrong for me I can't seem to get it to appear in render settings anymore, even old scenes.  I'm also having trouble with IBL master.

Crios said:

@Tiziano non posso, perchè il mio PC è troppo vecchio per far partire l'ultima versione di DAZ

 4.15? Allora è normale che non vada, è troppo indietro per Filament. E' vero che non lo hanno cambiato molto ultimamente, ma sei quasi deici release indietro.

Comunque mi suona strano che DAZ Studio non parta sul tuo PC, non ha delle richieste così alte. Ti consiglio di fare una prova, magari disabilitando IRay del tutto dal pannello dei plugin che forse è quello che ti inchioda tutto.

Ma prima fai tre backup di 4.15.

I'm relatively new to Daz, but I started an underwater scene that looks fine in Texture or Filament mode, but when I switch to Nvidia mode (or if I render it) the whole scene is black

I tried adjusting the lighting but nothing changes.

Can anyone clue me into what's happening & what I need to do to make the final render more illuminated like it appears in Texture Mode? Thanks!

Experiment with FilaToon and Atmosphere for Filament

Torquinox said:

TesseractSpace said:

I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

At the risk of sounding blunt, why are you here? I understand you might be frustrated with Filament, but complaining about the lack of photorealism in a thread dedicated to toon rendering (and even describing everyone who likes as "delirious" and likening it to a plague) is hardly going to get the results you want.

Also, while Filament originally shipped without the ability to handle cast shadows (hence the cool SickleYield rigged shadows product), it has since updated to allow for cast shadows. Most (if not all) of my FilaToon renders so far use cast shadows from both direct lights and spotlights (point lights still don't cast shadows as far as I know).

Torquinox said:

TesseractSpace said:

I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

"increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag" - part of, not the sole purpose.

If you don't get it (or get it but don't want it) that is finr, but clearly other people do get and want it.

Sorel said:

I was gonna say, filament would probably be used more of daz implemented all it's features.

This ^ 

Torquinox said:

It's not a Daz alone thing. https://github.com/google/filament

Given how long it seems to take to implement improvements in Iray, I doubt they'll ever get around to implementing the full capabilities of Filament unless the interest in Filatoon is high enough to justify Filament improvement.

It's not a Daz alone thing. https://github.com/google/filament

Torquinox said:

TesseractSpace said:

I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

Filament is pretty primitive renderer. I think we can not expect Daz to massively improve that in terms of realism, or at all really. For one I doubt the expertise is there to develop a full blown renderer. Or if there is then the resources surely aren't there for such a massive untertaking.

I think the reality has set in that Filament wasn't being used much. So this move with the toon shader was nothing short of brilliant IMO. Now Filament has a purpose, PA's have new avenues to sell toon stuff and many users who are into manga/anime etc. are happy with the new possiblities.

Forget about Filament for realism. I really doubt that will ever happen. Use Iray for that or maybe find a workflow with UE5 for realistic real time rendering.

Richard Haseltine said:

Using which DrawStyle in the Viewport?

Usually filament, occasionally Texture Shaded.

TesseractSpace said:

I don't recall anything saying G9 was about photorealism beyond the usual progress in that direction that has been a thing since the days of Poser and the original Mike and Vicky. But there has also been a lot of interest in NPR styles. It's not like we haven't seen character packs like Kiri 9 and Pixie 9. Really the Filatoon thing is new and shiny, and people are still figuring out new things to do with it. But the store will swing back to photorealism and I'm sure there are more realistic character packs coming.

How do you not remember when G9 came out and the marketing push touted the more-realistic skin textures and we got ginger V9 and so on?  Obviously, increased realism is supposed to be part of the G9 bag, and yet... It's not even that I'm that enticed by photorealism per se. I am put off by a character taking so much hard drive space and gobbling up so much VRAM memory and increasing render time without reliably improving render quality. And many here seem to have noticed G9 seems to especially good for making stylized toon characters. And then Daz says, "Let's make Filament into a dedicated toon renderer so you can make fast renders of these G9 characters in cartoon format." Not all of us hoped for that. Some of us - Maybe just me by myself - wanted Filament in Daz to be more like Eevie and render quickly in a believable style, decently and fast - Really fast! But what we got chokes on cutout opacity and fails to handle cast shadows without an add-on. 

Now we're lost in toon-land. That surely has its uses, but it's overrun everything like a plague. Don't mind me. I don't get it. That is all.

So let's get this straight: G9 is supposedly all about photorealism. Characters take up a few to several hundred mb hard drive space for textures(!!). And we're all deliriously happy about a shader and render system that flattens all that to nothing and looks like cartoons. Has there been any improvement to normal Filament rendering?

They should appear in both, but only once the settings node has been created (from the Create menu, by using Iray or Filament Drawstyle, or by doing an Iray render). I certainly see them in Render Settings then. This has been the case for a while now, I think.