NotAnArtist said:

Richard Haseltine said:

It says that it will be available in the DS beta first, then later there will be an update for the general release. If you do not wish to pre-purchase then don't, it is up to you to weigh the cost and benefit of each offer before deciding whether tot ake it up or not (or even to decide you are not interested enough to do any weighing).

It's wrong to tell people that they can sufficiently weigh cost or benefit based on such nebulous, weak information!

If there isn't enough information to persuade you to buy then surely th weighing will simply come down against purchase.

I was tempted to buy this thing but then my brain woke up with a few questions.

If I buy the preliminary item, Face Transfer 2, for $34.97, I will not receive an actual product, but it will allow me to get access to the unlimited beta version later.

Would there be an additional price for that beta? ["get access"]

Acess means, as others have already found, that you get a serial number for the product - that is all that will be needed.

And then when the General Release version is launched, would I get any extra discount for having spent money on the first two steps?

Again, you would have a serial number - Daz has not yet chargd for a beta and then for the release version, and I would certainly not expect them to start now.

BTW, when I get access to the unlimited beta version, I may discover I don't like it, so would I get my $34.97 back?
  *It could happen beyond the 30-day return policy, related to the first purchase.

This would certainly be a reason to wait, but it is your call. Though I thought there was something about early next month - if that did stretch beyond 30 days from the tail-end of November I would certainly be inclined to argue for an extension (with what success I can't guess).

So are they inviting people to spend $34.97 to TEST something, and if they don't like it, phhhht, $34.97 gone, and no product to show for it at all?

 

Havos said:

SolitarySandpiper said:

mwokee said:

I watched the YouTubes promoting Face Transfer 2 and was not impressed with the real life examples. I'm interested in getting it but the results are not realistic enough for me. Are there any tricks for getting better results or were the videos pretty much as far as you can go? There are AI applications that are stunning in what they can do but I can't justify the cost. Maybe this is a you-get-what-you-pay-for thing. I want quality for cheap and I'm out of luck? If Daz can do better, maybe update their how-to videos?

What Ai applications can do a stunning job at what face transfer 2 is trying to do on the cheap?... i really am hoping there is such a application.

cheers. 

It is possible the author used AI to improve his algo, rather than it being bundled into the plug-in, which I suspect would not be easy. AI is after all a somewhat hyped subject at the moment, and it is hard to say exactly what is AI and what is not.

I did pick up FT2, but mostly because of the deal that came with it. DAZ's deals involving free products up to X dollars, often only include a bunch of largely undiscounted DOs. With this deal you got $30 dollars of heavily discounted products, particularly if you had 3 punches. With $30 dollars of undiscounted products you might get a couple of cheap pose sets, but with FT2 I got about 10 free DOs, some of which had a high base price. I also got a gift card for 27% off, so I am happy regardless of how useful FT2 turns out to be.

Frankly, I was amazed. I was going to buy FT2 anyway, but with the punches, the last "giving thanks" coupon discount and an extra 10% for the cart for buying one of the other new items, the FT2 itself was $16 and I got 10 freebie items, all G9 stuff. 

A morph co8ld do up/down movement - morphs move the points in a straight line. You can also use the Joint Editor to adjust the orientation of a bone, dragging the centre/end points and then using the right-click menu to align the bone. Setting limits is one way to constrain movements, though I am not sure if this is what you want.

A morph co8ld do up/down movement - morphs move the points in a straight line. You can also use the Joint Editor to adjust the orientation of a bone, dragging the centre/end poitns and then using the right-click menu to align the bone. Setting limits is one way to constrain movements, though I am not sure if this is what you want.

I'm the creator of DTL, so as with MrPDean's response, please take what I say with a pinch of salt. I've not used DTH but I do follow progress and am very impressed with the system's capabilities.

DTL Conversion

My background is character animation, so DTL is primarily focused on creating a character that can be dropped into Unreal and will work out of the box with existing animation systems, demos and control rigs etc. For example, a figure produced by the release version of DTL (not yet released) can be dropped into the standard 3rd person UE demo project with almost zero configuration (see here: https://youtu.be/BPQgRld3I7A?si=c3hRBkFHzLhLNyXX).

During the conversion process, DTL completely rebuilds the character's skeleton, matching the joint orientations, rotation orders and names to exactly match that of Unreal's Metahuman / MannyQuinn figures. DTL also automatically merges the figure's meshes (including geografts) and produces a set of morphs that work on the merged mesh. 

Both the current beta version of DTL and the release version also produce a complete set of game engine compatible JCMs that cover the complete range of human motion. The DTL demo projects contain a pre-configured Animation Blueprint Post Process that uses UE's posedriver technology to drive the JCMs at runtime so that realistic body shape and muscle deformation are maintained even when the character is performing extreme motions like acrobatics.

Associated Software

DTL uses Maya to perform the conversion. There is an Indie version of Maya available for $300 a year and a trial version is also available. Please see here for links: https://virtuality.space/dtl/dtl-prerequistes.html#software

After conversion, a DTL converted figure is ready for further editing in Maya / Blender / Houdini etc if, for example, extra morphs are to be made or UV atlasses are to be produced.

The reason DTL uses the DazToUnreal plugin as part of the process is that the plugin contains an implementation of Pixar's subdivision algorithm for exporting fbx files with higher subdivision levels (i.e. higher polygon counts). As well as producing an fbx file, the DazToUnreal plugin also produces a .dtu file that contains useful information that DTL uses during the conversion process. DazToUnreal also automatically creates a set of materials in Unreal Engine that can be applied to the DTL converted figure. Kudos is owed to David Vodhanel for his amazing work on the DazToUnreal plugin.

It important to note that the figures DTL produces can be used with any game engine that can import clean, well formed, game ready character fbx files - despite the use of the DazToUnreal plugin during their creation process, DTL converted figures are not limited to use in Unreal Engine.

The Future of DTL

The release version of DTL (now planned for early 2024) will include the following features in addtion to 100% Unreal Engine skeleton compatibility:

 ~ Morph driven joint transforms that enable the morphing of one character to another in realtime, give full functionality to morphs like 'mouth open' and ensure rigid follower meshes like buttons and zips stay in place when morphs are applied at runtime.

~ G9 (and possibly G3) support

The 100% UE compatible skeleton functionality is already finished. The morph driven joint transforms and G9 support are in a working state and just need refining.

The automatic creation of a custom assets for UE's Machine Learning system for muscle deformation is also planned for a subsequent release.

The Future of Character Animation

Further down the line, I plan to make DTL capable of creating assets for neural network based locomotion animation systems. Neural network based animation systems stand to replace state trees and blendspaces with a neural network and produce far, far more compelling results than traditional animation techniques. These systems are also incredibly performant at runtime.

One of the world's leading researchers in the field (Daniel Holden) started working for Epic earlier this year. I've been following Daniel's work (and others in the field) since 2017 when he published his seminal paper on the subject.

All of the work I have done so far on DTL so far has been with the intention of being ready for when a neural network based animation system become commercially available - without doubt, they are the future of character animation: See here for the current state of the art (as produced by Sebastian Starke, another leading researcher in the field): https://youtu.be/YhH4PYEkVnY?si=9kffOsUgvdGmDx36

I feel there is a very high chance we will finally see these systems being rolled out in a user friendly, commercial form during 2024.

SolitarySandpiper said:

mwokee said:

I watched the YouTubes promoting Face Transfer 2 and was not impressed with the real life examples. I'm interested in getting it but the results are not realistic enough for me. Are there any tricks for getting better results or were the videos pretty much as far as you can go? There are AI applications that are stunning in what they can do but I can't justify the cost. Maybe this is a you-get-what-you-pay-for thing. I want quality for cheap and I'm out of luck? If Daz can do better, maybe update their how-to videos?

What Ai applications can do a stunning job at what face transfer 2 is trying to do on the cheap?... i really am hoping there is such a application.

cheers. 

It is possible the author used AI to improve his algo, rather than it being bundled into the plug-in, which I suspect would not be easy. AI is after all a somewhat hyped subject at the moment, and it is hard to say exactly what is AI and what is not.

I did pick up FT2, but mostly because of the deal that came with it. DAZ's deals involving free products up to X dollars, often only include a bunch of largely undiscounted DOs. With this deal you got $30 dollars of heavily discounted products, particularly if you had 3 punches. With $30 dollars of undiscounted products you might get a couple of cheap pose sets, but with FT2 I got about 10 free DOs, some of which had a high base price. I also got a gift card for 27% off, so I am happy regardless of how useful FT2 turns out to be.

Maybe it should be a morph...But I don't know how to do that either.

-b

Richard Haseltine said:

It says that it will be available in the DS beta first, then later there will be an update for the general release. If you do not wish to pre-purchase then don't, it is up to you to weigh the cost and benefit of each offer before deciding whether tot ake it up or not (or even to decide you are not interested enough to do any weighing).

It's wrong to tell people that they can sufficiently weigh cost or benefit based on such nebulous, weak information!

I was tempted to buy this thing but then my brain woke up with a few questions.

If I buy the preliminary item, Face Transfer 2, for $34.97, I will not receive an actual product, but it will allow me to get access to the unlimited beta version later.

Would there be an additional price for that beta? ["get access"]

And then when the General Release version is launched, would I get any extra discount for having spent money on the first two steps?

BTW, when I get access to the unlimited beta version, I may discover I don't like it, so would I get my $34.97 back?
  *It could happen beyond the 30-day return policy, related to the first purchase.

So are they inviting people to spend $34.97 to TEST something, and if they don't like it, phhhht, $34.97 gone, and no product to show for it at all?

mwokee said:

I watched the YouTubes promoting Face Transfer 2 and was not impressed with the real life examples. I'm interested in getting it but the results are not realistic enough for me. Are there any tricks for getting better results or were the videos pretty much as far as you can go? There are AI applications that are stunning in what they can do but I can't justify the cost. Maybe this is a you-get-what-you-pay-for thing. I want quality for cheap and I'm out of luck? If Daz can do better, maybe update their how-to videos?

What Ai applications can do a stunning job at what face transfer 2 is trying to do on the cheap?... i really am hoping there is such a application.

cheers. 

wolf359 said:

You have great character modeling skills for sure but you should post Wireframes on DA to show you use good topology.
You may want to migrate away from obvious WOW and DC comics/Movie stuff though.

 

I am assuming that is just a morph for a Genesis model, so showing the topography would be pointless  The Henry Cavill model looks pretty good.

I watched the YouTubes promoting Face Transfer 2 and was not impressed with the real life examples. I'm interested in getting it but the results are not realistic enough for me. Are there any tricks for getting better results or were the videos pretty much as far as you can go? There are AI applications that are stunning in what they can do but I can't justify the cost. Maybe this is a you-get-what-you-pay-for thing. I want quality for cheap and I'm out of luck? If Daz can do better, maybe update their how-to videos?

I would like to see Face Transfer 2 used using skin shader/texture material sets for preexisting Genesis 9 products, example, Genesis 9 Essentials, Victoria 9, or Michael 9.

it mentions Face Transfer 2 uses AI but does not clarify how and when that AI is used? Locally or remotely? On the CPU, GPU, or both, if locally. 

you tell us.  What are your conditions/situation when this problem occurs?

Maybe you have morph active with faulty rigging. Trial and error to test.

Maybe you moved bones while having limits off and did something weird.

RAMWolff said:

I have the inner mouth morph, the eyeball morph and the main character morph.  How do I create a dial so that when I dial up Fuzzy these other elements activate as well?  

Then I promise I'll leave you guys alone (maybe  )

For gen 9 mouth and eyeball, they are fitted figures to Genesis 9, so they will have a hidden autogenerated autofollow morph on them for any morph dialled on the main character.

You can take advantage of this. If you make the name of your mouth corrective and eye corrective the exact same 'Name' as the character morph, then save them out, they will be autodialled in whenever the Genesis 9 character morph is dialled in on the main character.  

You dont need to use property heirarchy/subcomponents to control behaviour of autofollow morphs - Just make them the same 'name' as character morph.  Notice i am saying morph 'name' and not morph 'label'.

There are videos on youtube for Gen 9 eyes and mouth autofollow morphs. It is very common problem so solutions are written/recorded all over the place.

Face Transfer 1 was fairly limited, usefulness-wise, until Face Transfer Shapes came along. I wonder if FT2 will have its own built-in improvements or if PhilW will create an updated version of FTS to go along with it.

daveso said:

AllenArt said:

Hmmm...military nurse outfit with the top open to the navel? I think not. LOL I don't mind if they have a morph to open, but I don't want that to be the only way it comes. Am I alone in this? 

Absolutely not. Any product that exhibits sexual erotica without being true to reality  doesn't get purchased by me. There is no way a military nurse, or even a civilian nurse would wear weat low cut, bare midriff, butt hanging out or high heals. This goes for military uniforms in general. 
Now, if you have a normal attire with the ability of opening the buttons, etc, that would be ideal. 

Heh. I bought the Sexy Nurse Bundle, but I plan to resurface them and use them for definitely off-label purposes, partly for exactly that reason. I don't actually use uniforms which are intended to look like any real-world military at all--it bothers me--and all of my military or combat stuff is either very much in the SF realm or is, like, plain camo or such with no recognizable insignia or pedigree.

AllenArt said:

Hmmm...military nurse outfit with the top open to the navel? I think not. LOL I don't mind if they have a morph to open, but I don't want that to be the only way it comes. Am I alone in this? 

Absolutely not. Any product that exhibits sexual erotica without being true to reality  doesn't get purchased by me. There is no way a military nurse, or even a civilian nurse would wear weat low cut, bare midriff, butt hanging out or high heals. This goes for military uniforms in general. 
Now, if you have a normal attire with the ability of opening the buttons, etc, that would be ideal. 

paulawp (marahzen) said:

AllenArt said:

Hmmm...military nurse outfit with the top open to the navel? I think not. LOL I don't mind if they have a morph to open, but I don't want that to be the only way it comes. Am I alone in this? 

Me, I thought that, too. I literally thought, "Just one or two more buttons, and this could have been a product for multiple audiences."

Ineed, and whats even more sexy is the transition from proper outfit to a sexy outfit.... always be on lookout for morphs on clothes.

RAMWolff said:

PS.  Sub Components >1st Stage has like a million and one entries when I expand it.  So when I added in the mouth and eyes it didn't do anything, as in the eyes and mouth didn't follow along with Fuzzy's shape.  SO I deleted those.  

Have you ever did an ERC Freeze on Fuzzy's single control property ? It seems that you must've done at least once.... 

Pls DO NOT ERC Freeze on a control dial, freeze on "morph dial" as needed. Like this - there should be 3 basic dials for Fuzzy: Fuzzy, Fuzzy Head, Fuzzy Body on a Base Genesis figure. ERC Freeze on the last two, never on the 1st one.