So, tried the product. The conversion went well but the converted character has strange, wavy biceps. Ill post a pic tomorrow.

That is strange.  What character?  Homegrown?

Its Jenn HD, https://www.daz3d.com/jenn-hd-for-victoria-7 . Heres a pic.

 

I think other morphs may have been pulled in.  When you load Jenn, what currently used morphs are engaged?  You may have to fix this by deleting the morphs and reconverting.  You could verify this by temporarily renaming the Data/Daz 3D/Genesis 8/Female/Morphs directory and trying to convert Jenn again.

In practice, the poly count of the figure itself is only significant to the overall scene if you've got a high subdivision, and the specific generation used really doesn't matter much.

While textures are generally the main culprit when it comes to memory use, even ignoring that and looking specifically at just scene geometry... the base figures are actually fairly efficient. What adds scene geometry is when you need detailed shapes, and while HD morphs are easily capable of adding loads of tiny wrinkles to a figure, for the most part a lot of the details on human skin are small enough to be faked with bump or normal maps, so the base geometry of the figures is usually fairly smooth and doesn't need that many polygons.

On the other hand, clothing with loads of modelled seams, or hair with loads of layers and curls? These can easily exceed the geometry of the figure they're fitted to. And from experience, the generation of an asset really doesn't guarantee anything about its mesh resolution; there are loads of old Genesis assets with huge mesh resolutions, there are some Genesis 8 assets that are as light as a feather...

... on which note, neither those wings or that hair you're using are going to be light on mesh geometry. That hair has loads of layers of individual curling strands, and wings that need to model the geometry of each feather... each feather alone is going to be quite a lot, and multiply that up by hundreds of feathers.

 I was seeking to understand why some specifically say for Victoria 7 and for Genesis 3

In this case, it probably means that the figure only uses Victoria 7's body morph, not her face morph (or very little of her face morph), so while having Victoria 7 is preferred, not having Victoria 7 won't make the character look hugely different.

However, there's not exactly rock solid consistency about this.

Some character morphs are design from the genesis 3 base, whereas other character morphs, build on top of Victoria 7 which is a morph of the Genesis 3 base. To get the look of the character as seen in the promos,  you need both the genesis 3 base along with the victoria 7 morph package.  You can use the character without the Victoria morph, but usually the face will look different as a result.

Thank you, First Bstion. And while I'm here: Thank you sincerely for all that you have brought to the Daz universe. I use the word "universe" advisedly, because without the amazing array of terrain and structures and buildings and skies and even the depths of outer space that you and some of the other great creators have toiled over and provided, all these marvelous 3D humanoids and animals would be floating in a grey void.

When a character says "for Victoria 7", it means it uses the Victoria 7 shape as a base to create the character. Maybe not at 100%, but you will need the V7 shape for the character to look like in the promos.

Yeah, that was pretty clear. I was seeking to understand why some specifically say for Victoria 7 and for Genesis 3, given that Victoria 7, as pointed out above in this thread by First Bastion, is a morph of G3. The wording is ambiguous at best when both are listed. It seems to indicate—ambiguosly—that the character could be used by someone who had the G3 base, but not Victoria 7. That's why I asked. Obviously, if it says it is "for Victoria 7," then Victoria 7 would be needed. Obviously.

Some character morphs are design from the genesis 3 base, whereas other character morphs, build on top of Victoria 7 which is a morph of the Genesis 3 base. To get the look of the character as seen in the promos,  you need both the genesis 3 base along with the victoria 7 morph package.  You can use the character without the Victoria morph, but usually the face will look different as a result.

On top of that, some of these named figures also have a slightly different UV topology from their base figure. It's generally still pretty close to the base figure, but might at times reveal some odd seams. As far as I know, this no longer happens with Genesis 8 figures and spinoffs, but I'm not sure about Genesis 2 and 3. From what I remember, some of those did have slightly different UVs.

Some character morphs are design from the genesis 3 base, whereas other character morphs, build on top of Victoria 7 which is a morph of the Genesis 3 base. To get the look of the character as seen in the promos,  you need both the genesis 3 base along with the victoria 7 morph package.  You can use the character without the Victoria morph, but usually the face will look different as a result.

When a character says "for Victoria 7", it means it uses the Victoria 7 shape as a base to create the character. Maybe not at 100%, but you will need the V7 shape for the character to look like in the promos.

You get G1,2,3,8 base figures free with Daz Studio.  The poly counts are shown in the information box below the Scene tab.

Fantastic! Just what I needed. Thank you very much Sevrin!

Another question, that may or may not be related(?): Can anyone tell me why I see some "character" products that say, e.g., "for Victoria 7 and Genesis 3 female," but then others will say only "for Victoria 7" or "for Genesis 3," not both? 

Can't even begin to describe how utterly confusing this is for a (brand) newcomer to DAZ. It is beyond incomprensible how you're supposed to know configurations and what is compatible with what. 

Case in point: I got a bunch of free shapes/materials yesterday (Candace) that was built on Stephanie 5 base - and I read that Stephanie five was compatible with Genesis base, but then I now read in here that Stephanie 5 was created from Michael?!?!?! WTF.

So I load in the Base Gen character (thinking to myself: Ok, so it says Stephanie 5 is compatible on Genesis - cool, this should work then!) and try applying the Candace head shape and skin, but it maps totally wrong. So I go into change the UV Set and I'm given the options of either Victoria 4, Michael 4, The Kids 4, Gen male, and Gen female. I try ALL of them, nothing works.

So now what? Do I indeed need to actually purchase Stephanie 5? Why doesn't Genesis Female base work????? It is CRAZY that you need endless multiple base characters in order for anything to happen, complete mine field and my entire experience of DAZ so far has been one of endless hours trawling through the shop and reading/watching tutorials instead of diving into it - the software is not difficult at all, but the compatability of characters/surfaces/textures (endless list) is just staggeringly frustrating.  

Sorry (not sorry!) to vent, but I just want to throw my laptop out of the window right now. 

 

Unfortunately in this case, yes, you do need Stephanie 5 because Canadace does use the UV set for Stephanie 5. With Genesis(1) through Gennesis 3, the DAZ CharacterNameX (or named/numbered characters) typically had unique UV mapping. Some of the characters that require another character don't need the base character to work (they just don't look the same) because PA's started using the base Genesis(x) UV set. If you don't own the "required" base, and the product description doesn't mention it, it's always best to ask in the Commons to see if the base product is required.

I think due to the issue you are experiencing, with Genesis 8 DAZ seems to have moved away from the custom UV's (the custom UV's for each character reduced texture distortion). If you don't need to use Candace now, watch the sales and you should be able to get Stephanie 5 really cheap (or free) in the next month or so. The price of old content is often greatly reduced.

Can't even begin to describe how utterly confusing this is for a (brand) newcomer to DAZ. It is beyond incomprensible how you're supposed to know configurations and what is compatible with what. 

Case in point: I got a bunch of free shapes/materials yesterday (Candace) that was built on Stephanie 5 base - and I read that Stephanie five was compatible with Genesis base, but then I now read in here that Stephanie 5 was created from Michael?!?!?! WTF.

So I load in the Base Gen character (thinking to myself: Ok, so it says Stephanie 5 is compatible on Genesis - cool, this should work then!) and try applying the Candace head shape and skin, but it maps totally wrong. So I go into change the UV Set and I'm given the options of either Victoria 4, Michael 4, The Kids 4, Gen male, and Gen female. I try ALL of them, nothing works.

So now what? Do I indeed need to actually purchase Stephanie 5? Why doesn't Genesis Female base work????? It is CRAZY that you need endless multiple base characters in order for anything to happen, complete mine field and my entire experience of DAZ so far has been one of endless hours trawling through the shop and reading/watching tutorials instead of diving into it - the software is not difficult at all, but the compatability of characters/surfaces/textures (endless list) is just staggeringly frustrating.  

Sorry (not sorry!) to vent, but I just want to throw my laptop out of the window right now. 

 

Candace for Stephanie 5 shows Stephanie 5 as a required product.  Also "for Stephanie 5" is right in the product name. That's pretty clear to me.  Sometimes required products aren't absolutely essential, but it's kind of a proceed at your own risk kind of situation.  Anyway, Steph 5 was only USD 5.59 a few days ago and she'll be on deep discount again soon.

Anyway, I stick to G3 and G8 as a new-ish user.  They play together reasonably well, and all the materials they come with work with Iray.  They're also heavily discounted often enough that it's possible to accumulate a decent number of assets if you're patient.

Vauxhall > Acton Town > Cowcaddens > Ibrox > St Enoch > Harrow & Wealdstone > Gorbals > Barbican > Sloane Square > Victoria

Well, if offered Victoria what can I do but play

Mornington Crescent

So, tried the product. The conversion went well but the converted character has strange, wavy biceps. Ill post a pic tomorrow.

That is strange.  What character?  Homegrown?

Its Jenn HD, https://www.daz3d.com/jenn-hd-for-victoria-7 . Heres a pic.

Vauxhall > Acton Town > Cowcaddens > Ibrox > St Enoch > Harrow & Wealdstone > Gorbals > Barbican > Sloane Square > Victoria

Well, if offered Victoria what can I do but play

Mornington Crescent

Ah wuz expectin' that, ya wee sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous sassenach bampot !
thwack!
"Six !"

Vauxhall > Acton Town > Cowcaddens > Ibrox > St Enoch > Harrow & Wealdstone

Gorbals

 

Challenge: Are proposed future changes allowed under these rules? I thought they were only allowed under the Zemeckis Delorean subset.

I should have realized that something was up when the official at St Enoch (I assume he was an official because he was wearing a hat) told me that the construction work at Gorbals hadn't started yet... but that he could give me the half-price sassenach discount fare if I walked.

Ascania said:

Vauxhall > Acton Town > Cowcaddens > Ibrox > St Enoch > Harrow & Wealdstone > Gorbals

If you really want to enjoy life in Nidd we can oblige.

Barbican

Because I have no idea why else you'd have chosen that particular move.

Luckily Nid's Yorkshire rules, so doesn't apply here. I was actually going for a Smart Alec play, but fell into the Hoist By One's Own Petard trap.
So it's time for a cautious play - one stop downwind to:

Vauxhall > Acton Town > Cowcaddens > Ibrox > St Enoch > Harrow & Wealdstone > Gorbals > Barbican > Sloane Square

Victoria

Yeah, with chromatic SSS, you pretty much want to use white for the base and transluceny colors. You can alter the skin tone itself a bit using the transmitted color, which is generally a shade from pink to orange. No longer does the rule "lower transluceny for ligher skin" work...with chromatic SSS, you need a higher translucency (all my characters use 75% and higher), even on lighter skinned characters, because you need that SSS map to shine through. The SSS map is where you want all the nice fleshy details and veins. To build a SSS map, I take the color map and blend in AJ's blood vessel maps along with one of the more detailed DO G3 SSS maps (V7 for girls and Lee 7 for boys). The end result is a nicely blended SSS map. It can become tricky when the character you are working on has body hair painted directly onto the color map...which is a whole other issue and I wish it wasn't done but I understand why because not everybody has the horsepower to render modeled body hair (Dain and Michael 7 being prime examples). 

For specular details, you are defiinitely not forced to use the ones that come with the character you're working on. I tend to build out "frankenskins" or mashups of skins...color map from here, specular map from there, etc. As long as they line up relatively decent (and use the base UV), you're good to go. I've attached an example of a mashup...it is LY Bramble's color map, with a rebuilt SSS map, and Victoria 7's specular, bump, and normal maps. Victoria 7 has gorgeous specular details. The second example I've attached is reworked Monique 7 (borrowing Monique 8's eyebrows)...but you can see how gorgeous of specular details Monique 7 has after reworking the skin to use chromatic SSS. The third example is completely reworked Michael 7 to use chromatic SSS. 

It should be noted for render racers, that chromatic SSS will add on to render times rather significantly (it's pretty much the main reason why G8 characters will take longer to render than G3 characters...generally speaking).

hmmm.. tips i've been looking for 

I try to do a lot of photo-realistic art. I think the skins from Mousso may fit the bill if you want "smooth and nonblemished". But all photorealistic skins will have blemishes one way or another. I find what helps with realism is turning down the brightness of the sclera and iris, playing with translusency weight of the skin, and manipulating the lighting of the setting so that the shadows create a more realistic look.

Ironically, one of the most photo-realistic skins I've used was from London, a V4 character. You can use V4 skins on G3/G8 with a product called Legacy UVs for Genesis 8: Victoria 4 by Cayman Studios (also has a G3 equivalent). Then, use N.G.S. Anagenessis 2 - Revolution to make the skin iRay compatible.

Danae has made some beautiful photorealistic skins that even today, hold up really well. You can also find more under the "Metropolitan Collection", some other characters like Lyon, Paris, Tokyo, etc, are all well done too. I don't know how easy they are to add onto but I know they look realistic out of the box.

Another helpful, non-DAZ technique is to take the render into Photoshop and adjust it, brightness/contrast/filters can bring out even more of the realism.

...btw - would there be any possibilities of being able to swap out the chips for say, little asteroids and stuff like that?

Not as things stand. Remember that the base mesh for the 54-chip scatter prop consists of 54 separate chips. Each morph target was created manually from that base mesh. The base mesh OBJ was imported into Poser, and then each morph target in turn was incorporated into the Poser prop using the 'Load Morph Target' with the appropriate OBJ.
To do the same for other objects (banknotes, playing cards,asteroids, whatever) would require creation of a completely new base mesh) plus versions of each MT derived from that new mesh. Which is why I commented back in this post, "But do I really want to go through all this morph target creation again for a pack of cards and a wad of bank notes ?"

Creating an MT to convert the meshes of each individual chip to playing cards, asteroids, whatever is possible.The X/Y/Z translation morphs would still work correctly. However,the rotation morphs wouldtotally screw things up. Also you'd want different UV-mapping. So I can'tsee that approach working.

However, an alternative that I started playing with back when I was doing the multiple-rows-of-books Poser prop was using old-school geometry swapping, as used way back (I'm talking V1/2 time) in Anton's Victoria's Changing Fantasy Suit , Sixus1's Bunch O'Props for Behemoth, etc). Basically each separate item (row of books, casino chip, playing card, asteroid, whatever...) is a mesh attached to a separate bone in the figure. Lots of big advantages doing it that way, but also lots of problems (both expected and unexpected). A few clever tricks and a bit of lateral thinking and I had the basic concept working. And then I got bored and went onto something else. Maybe time to look at it again ?

Yeah, with chromatic SSS, you pretty much want to use white for the base and transluceny colors. You can alter the skin tone itself a bit using the transmitted color, which is generally a shade from pink to orange. No longer does the rule "lower transluceny for ligher skin" work...with chromatic SSS, you need a higher translucency (all my characters use 75% and higher), even on lighter skinned characters, because you need that SSS map to shine through. The SSS map is where you want all the nice fleshy details and veins. To build a SSS map, I take the color map and blend in AJ's blood vessel maps along with one of the more detailed DO G3 SSS maps (V7 for girls and Lee 7 for boys). The end result is a nicely blended SSS map. It can become tricky when the character you are working on has body hair painted directly onto the color map...which is a whole other issue and I wish it wasn't done but I understand why because not everybody has the horsepower to render modeled body hair (Dain and Michael 7 being prime examples). 

For specular details, you are defiinitely not forced to use the ones that come with the character you're working on. I tend to build out "frankenskins" or mashups of skins...color map from here, specular map from there, etc. As long as they line up relatively decent (and use the base UV), you're good to go. I've attached an example of a mashup...it is LY Bramble's color map, with a rebuilt SSS map, and Victoria 7's specular, bump, and normal maps. Victoria 7 has gorgeous specular details. The second example I've attached is reworked Monique 7 (borrowing Monique 8's eyebrows)...but you can see how gorgeous of specular details Monique 7 has after reworking the skin to use chromatic SSS. The third example is completely reworked Michael 7 to use chromatic SSS. 

It should be noted for render racers, that chromatic SSS will add on to render times rather significantly (it's pretty much the main reason why G8 characters will take longer to render than G3 characters...generally speaking).

Great information, thank you! I'd seen your reworked M7 image in another thread and was blown away by how much better it made the character look.

There is no one size fits all color for SSS and other settings. And it is almost impossible to just say what will work on any given character because any given character may be totally different from another. It all depends on how the textures were created, what color the base textures are, and what the intent is with them. If you desire to have a darker skin tone, then the settings you want will differ from somebody who wants a light skin.

I personally prefer sticking to near white for the base and trans colors, which lets the texture color do the talking so to speak. I like the textures to be closer to what the intended skin is, if possible.

Having said that, I really like how bluejaunte's characters tackle skin (and clearly I am not alone). IMO, it is the gloss maps that take the starring role, they provide the important top layer of skin, and are pretty much unique to BJ characters. They give the skin the tiny cracks that real skin has. Many other characters just use noise generated maps to create bump and gloss maps, not everybody, but a lot. This can work, but they become visible in closeups. Also, many Daz models have too much shine in their skin, like the entire model has shiny skin, I don't think that is right, and it is big part of why Daz models "look like 3D models" instead of more realistic people. The BJ gloss maps are made in a way that they reflect the light more properly, with the natural ridges in our skin being highlighted more correctly because the gloss maps actually have those ridges in fine detail. If you want realism, that matters.

The great thing is these gloss maps are very versatile and will work quite well with just about any character and skin with some tweaking on the material settings If you look at the BJ color textures, they surprisingly lack a lot of baked in detail, like creases and folds. Again, that detail comes from the bump and gloss maps, and this is the way I think it should be done most of the time. Normal maps can help, too, to compliment the sculpt. But one has to be careful not to go overboard with normals or details start to look like canyons, which seems to happen to a number of Daz Originals' hands. Generally, normals are for large details, bumps are for small/fine details.

Blood vessels, are you talking about visible under the skin or about the ones that kind of pop out of the skin a bit? If you need ones that pop out, this can be done with either HD morphs or displacement maps, or both. There are vascularity HD products in the store for G3 and G8, and there is a product that uses displacement maps. I can't remember if it is for G2 or G3.

You can make under the skin blood vessels by using translucency maps. Many models use the same map for both base color and trans color, but some don't.  Some do have painted vessels. You can paint in vessels on a base color and use this as a trans map if you want. You can use them in base color maps, too, but be careful as that can backfire and look fake, too. Again, it all depends on how everything else is set up. All of these things have to be balanced with each other to produce the desired effect.

I didn't mean to shift the direction of the original post; sorry if it turned out that way. This is all good information, Outrider; thanks for taking the time to share it.

With regard to the blood vessel maps, I was referring to the sub dermal kind. (I have seen the vascularity morph products in the store).

 

 I have several BJ characters, so I will look more closely at how the skins are set up. 

Oh nice. That is exactly what I did, study how those were set up. The gloss maps that BJ uses in the dual lobe specularity are pretty important to that top layer. The SSS works with the translucency for the sub dermal layers. I have blended textures together a lot to get what I want. The translucency maps can be pretty different, but certain key details need to be present on both the color and trans maps in order for them to look correct in the render. Otherwise the maps will compete with each other and will look washed out in the render.

I have seen a variety of characters with sub dermal veins. The one I remember most is actually Victoria 7, yes, Vicky 7, I'm surprised, too, LOL. If you have her, which is likely, take a look at her SSS maps. They have some pretty strong veins. There is a "Victoria 7 for Victoria 8" version, which brings her to the G8 line. As you may know, the original V7 has a unique UV map, so you cannot just pop a V7 map onto G8, that does not work. So you can grab the V7 for V8 product, or you can bake the textures for V7 to match G3. Then when you are done you can use the new textures freely on G8 characters. There is a guide for "baking" the unique UV maps to match the base UV in the forum if you need it.

Anyway, once you have the textures converted to G3/8, what you can do is use GIMP or whatever to paint the veins from the V7 SSS maps onto the SSS maps you want to use. OR you could do the reverse and blend the details of your SSS characters into the V7 SSS maps. Whichever works better. The important part is the face, you want the correct details from brows (or no brows), eye outlines, and lips, and any prominent features like large moles and marks. Then onto the body, the nipples and belly button should probably match, and so on.

Sorry to necro this topic, but I've just spent the last half hour trying to figure out what I'd done wrong.

Problem: GenX tab buttons are dimmed out.

Background: Wiped and resinstalled my Win10 machine recently.  I've been using the Beta of Daz 4.10.  My library is on a seperate hard drive.  Reinstalled some of my content using DIM, but (obviously) not all of it.  One of my problems was that the GenX tab was useless.  The buttons dimmed out.

At some point, I thought I'd managed to configure DIM to install everything in the right place, but I did something wrong.  Still not sure what. 

Solution:  I found all the GenX2 data files burried under C:\Users\[UserName[\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\GenX2.  I needed to copy them maually to C:\Users\[User name]\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4 Public Build\GenX2.  Once I did that (and restarted Daz Studio) everything worked fine.

 

After spending over an hour trying to get GenX2 to work (the Source button was greyed out), your solution above has worked.

Thank you very much.  Now I just need to find out how to get Victoria 4 to be recognised.