tag: luci45 #5
Sir Mandrake Boland - Unsung Hero of the Steampunk Era
Renowned inventor Sir Mandrake Boland arrives at his new home adjacent to his first experimental "steam farm." Sons Tad and Thad accompany him.  

Sir Mandrake, AKA Mr Poofy Pants, is best known for his role in combatting piracy.

Used:
Midnight Watchmen for Night Guard
Central Station
Adventure Land Outfit
Steel Town Refinery
Bus Rex (LB)
Contemporary Living (LB)

Also used:
Renaissance Male Clothing For Genesis
Unshaven Beard for Genesis
Aiden for M5
Various Morphs
Lorenzo Lorez 
Steam Truck Red Bizon

...and here are some promo images, the first four using just the Central Business District set and the last two used together with Night & Day City.  These are renders of the sets as distributed, including people, vehicles, trees, etc, nothing extra has been added.

I have a new set coming out for Carrara entitled Central Business District for Carrara. It can be used on its own, but is also a complementary set to Night & Day City. It should be launched next week.  Here is an overview video that tells you all about it!

Thanks, Gopherus!

Ostadan #1 LOL, you really matched your boring pull with the situation and the guy's pose! Nice one. And welcome back!

Pull #5:
Midnight Watchmen for Night Guard
Central Station
Adventure Land Outfit
Steel Town Refinery
Bus Rex (LB)
Contemporary Living (LB)

...true, PC sales have tapered off due to tablets, Smartphones, and Netbooks as the majority of users do not require a lot of horsepower for routine functions like reading emails, commenting on FB, tweeting, watching videos on You Tube, managing photo galleries, creating memes on Cheezburger, etc

The next largest segment is business where one often finds low to medium power desktop PCs networked to a central server.  After that is the gaming crowd who have heavier requirements for system resources to get the best detail, sound, refresh, and fame rates (media enthusiasts also fall into this area). Finally, there's us, the 3D CG enthusiasts, who yes, make up a very small segment of PC users compared to the general and even gaming population.

Dart,

One good turn deserves another...This  link will take you to "The last Valley"... a terrific flick that takes place during the thirty years war. It is a wonderful cast including Michael Caine and Omar Shariff. The thirty years war has dragged on for years and most of central Europe has been plundered and impoverished. Omar Sharif is a scholar on th run and stumbles upon this untouched valley high in the alps...Unfortunately, so does a a scavaging band of mercenaries led by Micaael Caine.  They have long ago lost any resemblance to amilitary unit with uniforms and instead  wear any form of military equipment they can find or take from those they defeat. The story soon becomes a survival situation  and a battle of wits .  For some reason the link brings up the movie a couple of minutes in..You will have to move it back to the beginning.

The whole movie is available in 8 sections online...and  can be enlarged up to HD.........Enjoy. It has been one of my favorites.

Dziels already recognizes this necessity, but he has reminded me of something I should share with everyone.

There is a bit of terminlogy I want to make sure we all agree on for this thread to avoid confusion.

Key Light- This is the equivalent of Direct Light in CG conceptualization. Such as light from the default Sun and light from indiviudal radials and spots. Key lights cast cleary discernable shadows onto nearby objects. Key lights also elicit specular reflections.

Indirect Light- Light from sources that are not point-like in nature, such as the light that sheds down from the sky. Coming in from lots of angles, skylight produces very soft shadows compared to those of the sun where all the rays face the same direction. Indirect light also comes from surfaces as they reflect the input of key light sources. True Ambience specializes in this type of lighting.

Fill LIght-The term "Fill Light" has a very specific meaning in real world photography. It is usually a single light bulb softened by a scrim that is placed to the left or the right of the model to illuminate the shadows along angles which diverge from the angles being lit brightly by the key light source.

3D Fill Light- This is a special cluster light form found in only one application as far as I know...Bryce. Unlike the photographical Fill light that comes from a point, the 3D Fill is actually a bit of a volume light, coming from an area instead of from a central point. The size of that area can vary from nearly point like, to world encompassing.

When we discuss the lighting in our scenes, we should draw a clear distinction between a traditional "Fill" light and the Bryce specific 3D Fill Light. Thus, the extra typing required to indicate 3D Fill is worthwhile.

Sometimes, all you need is a Fill light, which you'd apply with a single radial to the left or right of the target model. Other times you need something to solve the indirect light for more than the mere target object, but for the rest of the room as well. Those are the situations when you want to use the Bryce 3D Fill.

Thanks

For further reading:

Specular Channel: In Bryce, the specular channel of the material lab allows surfaces to reflect the images of light sources themselves and only the light sources.

Reflection Channel: True reflection however, allows the surface to reflect the images of all items within the scene, not just the light sources.

In the real world all "reflections" are the same, they are all specular in nature capturing both light sources and nearby geometry. But for biased engines like Bryce, Poser, Carrara, 3DL, "reflection" has been broken into two separate parts.

Vivien- Glad the thread is useful. Every few years I like to kick up the dust again with a new lighting thread. Problem is, rarely is there anything new to discuss. Still, going back to the basics and rebuilding ourselves is part of the fun. I have no special qualifications mind you. No one should be quoting me as the gospel. But I do have a great deal of interest in the subject and I've had a powerful computer for some years now to test things out that previously could not be tested effectively, so I know how the tools work even if I don't know how to make decent art with them. Anyhow, as you gain more experience you will find yourself agreeing and disagreeing with me at certain points. Just know that I can be wrong, so trust your own instincts and pursue any idea that comes to you.

Dziels- Thanks so much!! I must admit, there is no translucency anywhere in the Bryce renders. The look of the SSS is faked by the use of an upward facing True Parallel light, that keeps the shaded regions of the foliage from becoming so dark we notice that there is no translucency there.

TA has some quirks. If you are getting odd results from certain angles it sounds as if Focused Scattering is at play. Make certain in the Render options that Scattering Correction is enabled and that Focused Scattering is disabled. Please report back on if this change in setting fixes the issue you were observing. Sorry to give you homework with this thread and the other one. I just want to learn as much as I can from you. Thanks.

Hansmar- Yes, I agree about seeing light and shadow at the same time being somewhat rare. But in fairness, I have pushed the levels a bit to fake the appearance of translucency that isn't actually there. So you and David are correct, the light is bright, but it is not by accident, and I think it still works generally.

How do we know the true brightness and color of a surface? This is the central question to all lighting.

I think often in Bryce we concern ourselves with making an item look good for the current shot only. So we adjust the sunlight and other lights to the point where the target model appears as we desire it to in our mind's eye, which can be a very abstract place. In our mind's eye, there is no burn-out, and there are no deep shadows. The problem is, our abstract minds often don't consider issues such as time of day. How this object will look "differently if it is placed into the shaded regions of the image, or if the time of day indicates the sun is placed at a high angle or extremely low angle. Instead of asking ourselves if a surface looks plausible in an abstract sort of way, we need to ask ourselves if the surface looks correct under the specific current given circumstances, such as the time of the day and the weather conditions and nearby geometry such as walls, buildings etc. How should this sidewalk appear when lit by the sun at 75degrees in altitude? This is different than the way the same sidewalk appears when rendered in the evening, when the sun strikes said surface from a shallower angle lending much less light than it does at other times of the day. Unless you test it in multiple times of the day, it can be difficult to discern the true color and brightness level a surface should be placed upon. That's part of why the MegaScapes are built as they are, to allow users to free themsleves from concerns over the look of any surface from any one angle. Sometimes, surfaces should be brighter or darker than we assumed but we don't notice it until we view them from a different angle. More on all of that in the near future. Also, do I have your email? I'd like to send you the file. Drop me a PM please. I'll double check my records to see if I can find it.

Part of the issue with the renders we are seeing is the extremely low resolution of the images, only 600 pixels. These same light settings rendered at a higher resolution, the distraction of the noise disappears. I think AA is a bigger problem than the actual light levels.

Congratulations Peter Wade!

42 of course! Like everyone in Central Europe Timezone who had not the chance to get her: I wish I had two heads. I could have hours of fun banging them against a wall.

The funny thing is that, these unreal ideas are giving scientists true directions to look to. Warp Drive is an idea that they are giving serious thought to, although likely not at all the same as used in Star Trek. String Theory is such an idea to open up possibilities of many things we all "Know" to be unreal, though, if it (string theory) truly is real, than our unreal is no longer nearly as black and white as we make it.

I am not physicist, but I do enjoy watching their movies on science and speculations. It's... how should I put this... A real Blast!

 

 

(it was also a 15 certificate, compared to the more usual 12A - more swearing and lots of slashy slashy)

15 certificate and 12A - Must be UK terms?

The funny thing is that, these unreal ideas are giving scientists true directions to look to. Warp Drive is an idea that they are giving serious thought to, although likely not at all the same as used in Star Trek. String Theory is such an idea to open up possibilities of many things we all "Know" to be unreal, though, if it (string theory) truly is real, than our unreal is no longer nearly as black and white as we make it.

I am not physicist, but I do enjoy watching their movies on science and speculations. It's... how should I put this... A real Blast!

 

 

The fact that they are calling it a warp drive, warp bubble etc., is directly down to Star Trek. Of course, it may never happen, at least not in our lifetimes. But it's still cool nevertheless. Star Trek has inspired a lot of real science, scientists and inventors.

Right. Which is my point. So often folks dismiss fiction as being an impossibility, so they choose to dislike it. But then Science comes along and makes some of the most far-fetched ideas a reality.

Personally, I don't care about how 'possible' things are. If the movie is fun, I usually have fun. But I have my taste issues too, so I can't knock other people's ideas of what they like and dislike - nor the reasoning behind it. I have no idea why I simply cannot stand watching a lot of comedy movies, even though I love comedy when it comes into the non-comedy movies that I watch. sometimes I might object a little, but for the most part I just laugh and enjoy it. But movies based on comedy as the central format generally turn me off - but not all. I loved Airplane and the Naked Gun series and Hot Shots, for example.

Now, I'm really confused. Because, where I'm sitting, it still IS Sunday. I happen to be in Europe, which is several hours ahead of DAZ time. So if it's 11:30 AM Sunday morning in Central Europe, it should still definitely be early Sunday, i.e. 3:30 AM, where DAZ is located.

Thank you Rashad! And David!... For explaining how the 3D fill lights work. I had been fighting the lighting on an interior scene for a month. The 3D fills really made a difference compared to True Ambiance (see the attached images).

The TA version uses only standard lights. The sources are standard conical spots and radial lights over each pedestal down the center of the hall, a radial directly behind the camera to provide a little fill light for the foreground, and a very bright radial light behind doors at the far end. The hall radials use gels so that the lighting is not perfectly uniform. I used TA with 64rpp, scattering correction, and boost light. It took about 47min to render. The high rpp setting was to reduce the “salty” hotspots near the blinding light at the doors.

The 3D Fill version uses no TA but has the same standard lighting minus the camera fill light. There are 3D fills over each pedestal and one more in line with the others, over the viewer's left shoulder so that the closest pedestal is not a total black shadow. This used Premium Anti-Aliasing at 16rpp and rendered in 36min. I think it is less noisy than the TA at 64rpp.

I assume the TA image's warmer cast is from the light bouncing off the ceiling but the shading and lighting are much more uniform and flat. The 3D fills produce much more dramatic shadows and shadings.

In the 3D fill version, I tried doing without the standard radials but I found that I lost the nice specular highlight in the false window to the left. I'm not sure if turning up the specular setting on the 3D fills would have helped or how other surfaces would have reacted. The window surface already has maximum specularity. I also tried using only one 3D fill in place of the camera fill light. It produced superior results to the TA version and rendered in less than 20min but it filled in too many of the shadows in the side aisle.

With regard to your images, I am amazed at how densely and naturally you managed to place the plants! Those can be really fantastic scenes. My only complaint is that to my eyes, they are too noisy. There is too much high contrast at too small a scale. What rpp setting did you use for those renders? I think if you can reduce the small scale contrast, you will have some seriously photo realistic renders.

Thanks again for starting this discussion and I look forward to where it goes.

Welcome, dziels_

Thanks for joining the thread with such interesting examples! Both of those renders are fantastic! Both are successful!

You've enbaled the TA options as bet as could be expected. Good to see this degree of smoothness. The Boost Light does a great job of grabbing those colors. Scattering Correction is also helping move the light around and cover all the surfaces. To my eye the TA version is fairly realistic.

The only thing I'd consider doing is to model the spotlights that are suspended above the central line of short columns, rather than to represent them with hidden light sources. Though the resulting lighting effect is correct, it still seems to appear from a source that is hidden from our eye. I find that lighting is often more realistic when a user can trace the influence of a key light source back to it's geometric source. Basically, I try to make any key light sources into real objects in the scene. This is so that the user always knows where the light is coming from, and can therefore gauge the accuracy of the way said light is being represented. Indirect lights are less in need of such explanation.

One of the good things about producing a render with both TA and with 3D Fill examples is that you can use the TA example to help you rig your 3D Fills with more accuracy. Color bleed is an important consideration and when you have walls or floors that are heavily colored in a particular way, it can be wise to account for that in your indirect light rigging. TA picked up the gold coloring of the panels along the vertical walls as well as the rails and ceiling elements. I'd say that you could tint the 3D Fills with some warm tan or brown to bring it closer to the TA example. The deeper shading of the 3D Fill is certainly pleasing. I might want a final shading somewhere in between the two examples. Lowering the shadow intensity of the 3D Fills to maybe 85% could do the trick. I dont usually suggest lowering the shadow intesity of lights, but in this case it might be an effective enough solution that wont add to render time. The good thing about the 3D Fill is that you have the full control of any radial light source, unlike TA whose total intensity and thresholds cannot be controlled directly by the user.

Great render times in both cases. Often the 3D Fill will win the race, but not always.

Thanks as well for the feedback on my images. I agree with you, the noise is a huge distraction. I typically use standard AA, at normal settings, which isn't sufficient for this level of detail. I'm certain the look can be improved easily with better AA, but the effect on render time is yet to be determined. Hopefully, EGFPLS won't be too expensive to use in conjunction with better AA settings. Shortly I'll be turning it over to other people and hopefully we'll see some better looking examples.

Fun, fun!

Oh hey, heads up- if you're doing this- the date in your inbox isn't necessarily the date the order was placed, which is the 30 day timeframe. It will say at the top of the page (once you click your email and open it) the date you ordered. That one day can make a difference. Orders I placed at 11pm Central time should NOT be showing for the next day, DAZ is two hours BEHIND me. So watch for that.

There are several stations, but not much to put on the tracks. Doesn't have to be super high resolution or ultra-detailed. The Subway Train from Polish is amazing, but very resource heavy, so putting more than one in a scene with everything else would be prohibitive. There are a few outdoor trains, but they wouldn't be appropriate for an underground setting. Maybe something to go with one or more of these locations:

The Central District Subway Station
Parkside Tube Station
Neo Station

I will be 63 in a few months.

My musical tastes are wide and varied and include:

Amon Duul II, Barclay James Harvest, Jeff Beck, Adrian Belew, The Bonzo Dog Band, Camel, Can, Gang Of Four, Go, Gong, Graham Central Station, Steve Hillage, David Gilmour, Groove Holmes, Kissing The Pink, Manfred Mann, Mike Oldfield, Passport, The Persuasions, Django Reinhardt, Triumvirat, Robin Trower, Ultravox, Midge Ure, Visage, Yaz, and so many, many more including the usual suspects such as The Beatles, Annie Lenox, Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, etc.

Nice list!

I will be 63 in a few months.

My musical tastes are wide and varied and include:

Amon Duul II, Barclay James Harvest, Jeff Beck, Adrian Belew, The Bonzo Dog Band, Camel, Can, Gang Of Four, Go, Gong, Graham Central Station, Steve Hillage, David Gilmour, Groove Holmes, Kissing The Pink, Manfred Mann, Mike Oldfield, Passport, The Persuasions, Django Reinhardt, Triumvirat, Robin Trower, Ultravox, Midge Ure, Visage, Yaz, and so many, many more including the usual suspects such as The Beatles, Annie Lenox, Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, etc.

Ouch, now that's one helluva list!!! But you already KNOW I love your taste! ;)

Rock on, my friend!

I am also one of the younger ones at 50 and a half But I grew up listening to a lot of variety going from Johny Cash Dolly Parton and Kenney Rogers to groups i could appriciate more Such as the Clash, Prism .

Me too. 

and the man in the back said that's Dartanbeck

and it turned into a posting blitz...

are you ready Steve?

Stezza?

Alright fellas... let's Rendaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!

I will be 63 in a few months.

My musical tastes are wide and varied and include:

Amon Duul II, Barclay James Harvest, Jeff Beck, Adrian Belew, The Bonzo Dog Band, Camel, Can, Gang Of Four, Go, Gong, Graham Central Station, Steve Hillage, David Gilmour, Groove Holmes, Kissing The Pink, Manfred Mann, Mike Oldfield, Passport, The Persuasions, Django Reinhardt, Triumvirat, Robin Trower, Ultravox, Midge Ure, Visage, Yaz, and so many, many more including the usual suspects such as The Beatles, Annie Lenox, Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, etc.

J O'K 

Daddy Cool

EasyBeats

Ross Ryan

just to name a few 

remember when Suzie Q rattled the place so much the pigeon clocks went haywire! 

...yeah was a little miffed as I was doing test renders that were related to a discussion thread and was unable to post results all evening.  stayed up later than usual hoping it would come back online but by 01:00 local time (before giving up) as I was planning to get something with my PC+ coupon in the DO sale because I was going to be away all day Friday. Didn't get back on the site until after 00:00 Daz time Friday/Saturday).

Two things that bothered me about this: 

1. No advance notice (for example, Fantasy Attic gives a 1 - 2 day advance email warning to their community when they schedule downtime for their site and it is usually during low usage hours).

2. The timing.  This fell right during what was essentially "prime time" for most of North, Central, and South America, as well as the Pacific (Hawai'i, Japan, Eastern Australia, New Zealand.  Even had it only lasted for the planned hour thirty duration, it still was a major disruption at the wrong time.

When I was dealing with system operations in college we always scheduled routine maintenance during the lowest user demand as well as posted sufficient advance notice.

Oh... right. Well, since this thread has already taken a life of it's own, and you (Mitovo) wanted to run a thread on game creation or something, you might consider starting a brand new thread.

For starting new threads, go to the White Zone, for the White Zone is for Loading and Unloading. Go to the White Zone. You'll love it. It's a way of life!

                                                                                                                  - The Central Scrutinizer