Ok more and more strange, I now close and open DS, reload Dave, its torso for genitalia, then genitalia iray mats. The mismatch is still here, but not as strong as before. Can you tell me if you see a mismatch initially too? But then if I use the converter and the anatomy transfer, then I have "the same" mismatch as when I just load it. Not less but not more.

Thanks for checking it out. I found your method improved the mismatch I was getting on the anatomical elements and I think it looks much better than it did with using the transfer tool properly. I found I also had to apply that other texture with the gens to to the torso area. Initially it looked pretty bad, but this looks better. Thanks,

OK, there might be specific cases of figure. I spent more time to see what is happening with Dave.

- Dave is using dedicated translucency color maps. If you starting with genitalia not using Iray uber (so nt with specific sss maps), then the base color will be used as the translucency maps. The material which is already on the genitalia before the transfer must, like the torso have dedicated translucency color maps. This must be the Iray material provided for Genitalia, not the 3Delight one. (I don't say you have done this, I just say this can be a cause of mismatch).

-Now here is what happening with Dave :  If I take the default Dave settings (I don't use any converter or transfer tool at all, I just use the product I just bought), and that I load Dave, with the provided Iray materials for torso with genitalia, plus the provided Iray materials for Genitalia, I see, even before the conversion, a "mismatch" between the torso and the genitals. This mistmatch is there initially and cannot be repaired by any conversion or transfer tool, if it is here it is here (of course I cannot share images here).  I had not remarked it before because I was not close enough to the figure.

I have been having trouble with the gens on gen 3 male.  I loaded the character Dave. Applied his gens applied daves gen texture. Then applied the smart converter with some warmth added. Although daves texture is there the warmth was not added and his gens appear default color and do not match

By default, the initial smart converter does not act on genitalia. What you do is : you convert, you tweak the figure the way you want, and when you are done, you use the transfer anatomy tool so that the genitalia becomes "like the rest of the body".

I have finally bought Dave. And I tested several set ups with it, I have never any material set up difference.

Here is what I did :

1. load dave and genitalia

2. used Smart converter on Dave, changed colors presets and translucency presets to be sure not to be on the default load.

3. Used transfer tool : when you used the !Mgrs Transfer Anatomy, normally you should have in yellow :

Genesis 3 Male Genitalia (top middle window),

Genitalia (bottom middle window)

4. and : Then you press : ADD SELECTED SURFACE TO LIST, in order to have in the selected Destination surfaces, the box at the right of the interface, "Genitalia (name of the figure)". 

5. Then you press "Confirm list and Proceed to transfer" the Genitalia surface must be present in the Destination surfaces box right of the interface for it to work.

Now normally this should match. I tested various skins presets (base color, glossy weights, translucency variations... ) on Dave, and each time it worked (well finally not totally, the skins settings are the same, but the render is not the same, see next post why). 

Normally it is a very robust script, but one never knows. On next post I check the initial skin setting (without conversion or transfer, as it is provided)

Thank you all in sharing information and explaining.

I was not aware that the current limitations with the weight mapping on high resolution models go that far.

@ vertices count

The reason I prefer to use the term vertices when speaking about mesh sizes is that polygons could be either quads (4 edge points) or tris ( 3 edge points).

The number displayed by default in zbrush is points = vertices.

Richard allready explained how the vertices and polygon numbers are related.

- - -

@ the 4'357'308 vertices remark

The reason why I mention 4'357'308 vertices that often is because that would be the next reasonable quality jump that also does fit into VRAM by using 1888 MB for geometry.

Currently most high resolution morph products in the DAZ store may have been sculpted at 1'090'700 vertices.

- - -

@ why did I start this thread?

Every year I spend some weeks to catch up with new workflows in Zbrush.

I figured out that I can use the "project all" button to transfer any kind of detail from one mesh to the other.

The key is to mask those areas that should not be affected by the projection in order to prevent some random distortions.

What I now wanted to do is bring those details at 4'357'308 vertices back as morphs so I could animate them and use them for other figures as well.

But when I clicked GoZ I realized that only the details captured at the  lowest subdivision level of 17'418 vertices is brought back.

Using maps is not a solution when trying to animate.

I also wanted to save the morphs so I can dial them in fully or only partially for other Genesis 3 figures.

Therefore I was looking for another way to transfer the high resolution details of the morphs back into DAZ Studio.

That is when the question started: Why not work with more high resolution figures so you can bring morphs back at the original resolution level?

- - -

With the now available information I realize that at the current point in time with the available technology high vertice count figures will not solve enough issues to be considered an alternative.

The situation as a whole remains frustrating for those users who do have access to Zbrush and would like to use other more versatile workflows.

Hopefully in a not so far away future some new technologies will it make possible that we can work in more flexible ways with the licensed DAZ3D content in a DAZ Studio to Zbrush workflow.

- - -

Adding new morphs does not create a new CR2 - the CR2 remains unchanged, the Create ExP Files tool creates a series of pz2 files that list all of the currently installed morph files in the \Runtime\Libraries\!DAZ\FigureName folder and the CR2 uses readscript to bring those master lists in.

A scene preset, or Spawn a moprh of morphs from the DForms, save as morph asset(s) and then use a shaping preset. The button to spawn a morph is in the DForm pane, once you have your morph you can delete the DForms then go to File>Save as>Support Assets>Moprh Asset (the author and product fields determine the sub-folders of \Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis whichever\Male\Morphs used to store the data).

Hello

From what I see, it seems that their is no textures on the genitals. Is that the case?

First you must apply on the genitals the material of the genitalia you have in your content for your current figure. Then you apply transfer utility.

So the steps are :

1. Load G3M + G3M Gens

2. Apply Genitals materials to genitals

3. Apply Iray Main converter to G3M

4. Apply transfer Utility : the transfer will transfer the settings of the skin to the genitals.

Your mistake is that you need to have a mapped material on the genitals;

The transfer utility will copy all the settings used for material of the torso of the figure to the material of the genitalia, but preserve all the image maps used for the genitalia. In your case, you had not loaded the genitalia material, so the genitalia surface had no color, bump, specular, etc, maps. So the transfer occured, but the maps slots were left empty. 

I just re-tested it and it works, the only thing is that I have not been able to find the G3M genitalia material on my computer, so I decided to use M7 instead, and no issue, but you have to load the genitalia material before the transfer. Then the transfer will ensure the material settings (except the maps) is the same on torso and genitalia in order to have a perfect matching between both.

Is it ok for you? Let me know if you still need help.

 

Thanks! Now the utility works fine :-)

A little update to questions - in general, Blender texture conversions work very well, but i found 2 main problems - the first is the genital texture maps, which cannot be converted via Blender baking, because there is no clones for Genesis 3 and Genesis 2 gens yet. The second is material and shader presets (DUF material files), where amount of surfaces and reference links to texture maps differ very much. But they need to be converted too to keep the desired look of character skins. How do you manage with all that?

For gens, as I found, there exist a way of Map Transfer within DAZ Studio, but the only tutorial about this way I found on DeviantArt is a bit unclear for noobs - is there any illustrated or video tuts about DAZ Map transfer? Or there is any simpler way how to create gens texture in Photoshop etc? I made several attempts, but Hip surface on the torso and the gens don't fit (visible seams and color mismatching). I guess Seam Guides for Genesis 2 gens (Male and Female) would help, because a simple white template doesn't help much. Are there Seam Guides for Genesis 2 genitals?

As for ther second problem with DUF, it is not easier too, because DUF files are very hard to edit manually in any text editor - they contain shader info and a great bunch of reference links to maps, and these links mismatch too (G3 Eye Socket should be replaced with Lacrimals and EyeMoisture with EyeReflection - at least, these are best counterparts I could find or I am mistaken?) Is Dimension 3D DSON Editor capable to make such replacing surfaces faster and easier, or there is any other easier way, aside from struggling with text editors? What do you do with such mismatching surfaces, especially for eyes? I tested Genesis 3 Native Eyes with replaced G3M converted textures for irises - but on G3M with all shaders and presets eyes look much better.

And the third problem is textures made specially for IRAY - diffuse and bump maps look the same as for 3Delight, but specular maps look strange as if inverted and SSS maps sometimes gray. I don't use Iray and now switched to Reality 4, but sometimes it needs adjusting native 3Delight maps.  Do I need to convert Specular and SSS maps too via Blender or I'd better to remake them by myself from Diffuse? Are such Iray maps usable in Reality or 3Delight?

Hello

From what I see, it seems that their is no textures on the genitals. Is that the case?

First you must apply on the genitals the material of the genitalia you have in your content for your current figure. Then you apply transfer utility.

So the steps are :

1. Load G3M + G3M Gens

2. Apply Genitals materials to genitals

3. Apply Iray Main converter to G3M

4. Apply transfer Utility : the transfer will transfer the settings of the skin to the genitals.

Your mistake is that you need to have a mapped material on the genitals;

The transfer utility will copy all the settings used for material of the torso of the figure to the material of the genitalia, but preserve all the image maps used for the genitalia. In your case, you had not loaded the genitalia material, so the genitalia surface had no color, bump, specular, etc, maps. So the transfer occured, but the maps slots were left empty. 

I just re-tested it and it works, the only thing is that I have not been able to find the G3M genitalia material on my computer, so I decided to use M7 instead, and no issue, but you have to load the genitalia material before the transfer. Then the transfer will ensure the material settings (except the maps) is the same on torso and genitalia in order to have a perfect matching between both.

Is it ok for you? Let me know if you still need help.

I have problems using the Transfer Anatomy utility to G3M Gens.

1. Load G3M plus G3m Gens
2. Apply Iray main Converter to G3M
3. Apply Transfer Utility - nothing happens

What am I doing wrong?

 

But isn't there a DAZ morph to thin or thicken the lips?

 

There is. But unless I buy it and later shrink the lip it's hard to tell whether the modified "thin lip" version will suit personal taste.

I can paste a layer of thin lip previously made above the promo image and imagine what it would look like but sometimes the result looks hilarious.

Just need a place to complain. Sorry if it's not in the relevent post.

 

Relevant post!???   Does this thread look like it has any relevancy to anything???   And even complaints pop in here only once in a blue moon despite my careful attention to being perpetually grumpy.  (that's a complaint)

A little question about Dimension3D and other possible DUF\DSF editors. Is there any tool, suitable for lazy persons like me :-) to edit DUF and DSF files easy and fast - I mean if I need to replace 3-4 links to texture maps in, say, Genesis material preset files. And the same problem with references in any morph and character DSFs.  Yes, I know, it might be done in a plain text editor, but when the file is large and look entangled, I often make a heap of mistakes when doing Find\Replace and miss many important details. For example, I converted G3F texture maps to G2F (had such a strange idea) and need to convert G3F material preset to G2F now and their surfaces differ very much - G3F's Eye socket (Face Map) correspond to G2F Lacrimals  (Eyes Map) and Arms\Legs need to be replaced with a single map for Limbs and all links to the maps must be replaced too. I tested a straightforward way - to apply G3F preset on her and replace links within DAZ Studio, but it won't work on G2F. The file when opened in a text editor look very long and complicated and contain important shader information, so I hate to spoil it accidentally (made it several times) and have to scrutinize it for long. So far results of such manual editing are not very nice for me.
I feel I need a tool like Dimension 3D, but there are a bunch of tools (never used them before) - do I need DSON Editor of File Reference editor, are they capable of such a task? Generally speaking, it should be a well-known problem already - people learned how to convert texures, but material and shader presets must be converted too.

 

But isn't there a DAZ morph to thin or thicken the lips?

 

There is. But unless I buy it and later shrink the lip it's hard to tell whether the modified "thin lip" version will suit personal taste.

I can paste a layer of thin lip previously made above the promo image and imagine what it would look like but sometimes the result looks hilarious.

Just need a place to complain. Sorry if it's not in the relevent post.

I don't think this thread has a "topic". 

just my two cents here.

I think the first problem is peole confusing vertices and polygons.

Vertices are just points, i could easily put a million verts on a line, and have no polygons.

Polygons are collections of vertices, either in triangles(tris) or Quadlaterals(quads).

So even with 1,000,000 verts i could have 250k polys(quads, just quick division, not real numbers as the actual poly count could be higher or lower)

About 3 times as many polys as v4(77k estimated)

The discussion regarding poly counts is also fairly irrelevant, for one simple reason,

You aren't discussing distribution of those polys.

Puttin a high number in the head would be a good idea, the eye, not so much, the shoulder area meh, the collar area definitely.

The size of those poly is also an issue. You don't use the same size poly for a nipple as you would for the leg. it wouldn't make sense.

The next problem will be diminishing returns.

So you've got a super high poly model, How many can you put in a scene before the system gaks on ya?

Also how high poly count do clothes have to be to look as good or even work?

Now figure that a victoria 4 takes about 300mb presently to load(a bit high really for the base mesh) And triple that, so for one character you are already at one GB, without any morph dials, textures, clothes, hair, props, sets etc.3

Now you're looking at several GB or ram just for that. I've actually had scenes like that with over 4gb of ram taken up by the time a render was started. and that was with "low" poly stuff.

I've actually created a custom v4 with around 1k morph dials in it. converted a bunch of the pbmcc/dc stuff over via the version 3 script, as well as using poser to create a few more. That sucker, without any additional polys, takes1.5GB of ram to load.

Take a look at the difference between a base G3f, about 200-300MB base, now add in various character morphs, add on morphs etc, and she quickly balloons to the 1gb level before adding a specific character and skins.

On aveage these days my g2f takes about 1.5-2Gb to load. So even on my 32GB work station, i can only get about 16 total, unclothed and no hair with just the base texture.

In reality i did a smoke test and after 8 g2f, 5 g3f, 3 g1, and one vickie 4, all clothed and with hair, as well as 4 mid poly vehicles, and a set piece, a couple mesh lights i was over 24.5 GB, and basically the graphics card wasn't having none of it past that.

If you did a poly count on that, it's easily over 1million total.

There's a lot more than just poly counts to figure in.

Really the biggest problem is that most users of daz studio don't even have the system to use it well to begin with.

They might have a dual or quad core processor, an average of 8gb of ram and maybe a half descent graphics card(2gb of ram).

I speak from experience on this one.

Used a dual core athlon 3ghz with 6gb ram and a 512mb graphics card for years.

Heck i learned zbrush, 3ds max, keyshot, and a few others  on that thing and after a certain point the system would just stall.

Frankly i'll just boil it down to this

If you want an insane poly count figure, then go make it and see if it sells.

Stop whining for somebody else to do it for you, and just do it.

I just recently bought the Creature Creator morph pack and I'm having some issues. I want to create hybrid people (part human, part animal) so I don't want to use the entire body morph - just tail and ears for the most part - but whenever I use the ears morph on a child, the ears are positioned way too high above where the top of the head would be and it makes the head look really big. Everytime I try to move the ears down to the right place it just messes everything up, does anyone have any suggestions?

My other question is that I'd like to use other body parts to make the human-animal hybrid more pronounced, but the morphs are in huge sections (like if I want feet/paws then I have to change the entire legs) and it's either "go big or go home" - can I break this up into smaller sections somehow?

Edit: Here's an image to give you an idea of what's going on.

Genesis 3 I cannot help you but for Genesis 2 and below there is always the option of using another software like Poser or Carrara (or even FBX export to one of the big guys like Max, Maya, C4D etc) and subdivision with sculpting with morph brush in the first and all the pro tools in the later to create subdivided mesh with detals for your own renders, of course this cannont be then used in DAZ studio or shared as becomes a new figure based on DAZ mesh but unlike obj can still be posed in the software of choice.

I was toying with another idea.  Take a G3 and subdivide and export her as an .obj out of DAZ.  Bring her back into DAZ and use the trasfer untility to "remake her" using a standard rez G3 as the donor.  There are some problems....the bones from the G3 when transferred to the new subdivided G3 .obj does not bring all the bones over.  You have to keep the standard G3 character invisible in the backround to keep decent bending.  If you delete the regular rez G3 then you have to fix all the joints and bends since the new SubD G3 becomes like a rubberband.  Seams look real bad with the new SubD G3.  This all might be able to be fixed since I have limited knowledge about rigging in DAZ. 

What if DAZ3D would sell a 4'357'308 vertices version of Genesis 3 female and male?

- the UV would be the same -> all G3 textures maps can be used

- the rigging and bones could be the same -> all G3 poses could be used

 

That way DAZ3D would not have to support two completely different lines of figures but two similar lines of figures that share some traits.

Maybe DAZ3D could even find a way that morphs of the 17'418 standard Genesis 3 female figure could be used on the 4'357'308 vertices version of Genesis 3?

Maybe it would even be possible to create a version of Genesis 3 at each subdivision level from 1-5 and sell them in a bundle.

- - -

This approach would solve three issues:

- The technology would not rely on sharing access to a HD morph tool.

-> The technology would only work with figures that share the Genesis 3 UV layout and bones.

- Published artists would not have to support a completly new line of figures

-> UV maps, pose products are shared between different subdivision level versions

- Users can use that version of Genesis 3 subdivision level to create their own morphs that their system can handle.

-> Users can create high resolution morphs at the subdivision level of their choice without loosing weight maps and rigging

 

 

It' is difficult to weightmap high poly figures, that's why low poly figures are used and bend so well. The weightmapping wouldn't be the same as well as any jcms, so you would end up with 2 distinct characters, not one that would use a single set of clothing and definitely not morph. This would not work on that point alone. Two figures will split support, so this would not be a realistic solution for only a small set of people that be able to afford tools to morph this figure. All the tools for genesis still revolve around the low poly figure, so workflows still need to happen with that.

Guess that's why nobody ever tried weight mapping V4

..I actually converted Steph 4 to a Tri-X weightmapped figure after the original Genesis came out, but couldn't get any clothing to fit on her.properly.

I was toying with another idea.  Take a G3 and subdivide and export her as an .obj out of DAZ.  Bring her back into DAZ and use the trasfer untility to "remake her" using a standard rez G3 as the donor.  There are some problems....the bones from the G3 when transferred to the new subdivided G3 .obj does not bring all the bones over.  You have to keep the standard G3 character invisible in the backround to keep decent bending.  If you delete the regular rez G3 then you have to fix all the joints and bends since the new SubD G3 becomes like a rubberband.  Seams look real bad with the new SubD G3.  This all might be able to be fixed since I have limited knowledge about rigging in DAZ. 

What if DAZ3D would sell a 4'357'308 vertices version of Genesis 3 female and male?

- the UV would be the same -> all G3 textures maps can be used

- the rigging and bones could be the same -> all G3 poses could be used

 

That way DAZ3D would not have to support two completely different lines of figures but two similar lines of figures that share some traits.

Maybe DAZ3D could even find a way that morphs of the 17'418 standard Genesis 3 female figure could be used on the 4'357'308 vertices version of Genesis 3?

Maybe it would even be possible to create a version of Genesis 3 at each subdivision level from 1-5 and sell them in a bundle.

- - -

This approach would solve three issues:

- The technology would not rely on sharing access to a HD morph tool.

-> The technology would only work with figures that share the Genesis 3 UV layout and bones.

- Published artists would not have to support a completly new line of figures

-> UV maps, pose products are shared between different subdivision level versions

- Users can use that version of Genesis 3 subdivision level to create their own morphs that their system can handle.

-> Users can create high resolution morphs at the subdivision level of their choice without loosing weight maps and rigging

 

 

It' is difficult to weightmap high poly figures, that's why low poly figures are used and bend so well. The weightmapping wouldn't be the same as well as any jcms, so you would end up with 2 distinct characters, not one that would use a single set of clothing and definitely not morph. This would not work on that point alone. Two figures will split support, so this would not be a realistic solution for only a small set of people that be able to afford tools to morph this figure. All the tools for genesis still revolve around the low poly figure, so workflows still need to happen with that.

Guess that's why nobody ever tried weight mapping V4

They weightmapped it, but then iit's not a 800K figure. Also the weightmapping had some issues, including in the elbow area. I would suggest being less adversarial in this conversation; I'm only stating how this tech works.

Also keep in mind that just because V4 was weightmapped, it didn't mean there were lots of vendor support for it. The support was nonexistent and there were basically no custom morphs available for it because the market still didn't want to support one native figure for each platform.

I may make and save property preset,, to easy hide some nodes only.

load figure, (with no morph no pose, )  then hidden parts,, then save as property preset.

uncheck "shape", "morph" "material"  section, but  go to "others" then check "include others settings in preset"

usually it only record "un-visible" about nodes which you set. (not change pose,, or shape)

(untill save it,, check again,, you only check which you need to record in the preset,, to avoid,, the preset change mesh resolution etc without intention  ^^;)

And you may hope  to make another property preset,,  , to visible all nodes.