Tynkere said:

LynnInDenver said:

 

It is clear I am not a customer, I am product to be sold.

I'm retired with a graduate background research.  Doesn't take fancy schooling though.   You didn't ask, but I'm going to share some observations.

In my estimate, all lf us are both consumers and our behavior as consumers is a commody.  Purchases can be analyzed.  "This person might like Sci-Fi as evidenced by purchasing  x, y, & z.    Where does the customer live?  What time is he or she active on the net?  From what kind of device?"   The list could go on. 

So I backed off and looked at the topic from a research standpoint.  (skip to conclusion if want to)

--

Qualitative research is just listening to people or in this case reading.   It looks for common themes or trends.

1. Members have stated they do not like ads in the gallery for a number of reasons.  The most prevalent appears to be that members do not want to share their gallery with friends and family if the gallery is has been made (subjectively) less pleasant with advertising.

2. Members have stated they do not like advertising on the forum itself.  The most prevalent reason given appears to be a poor UX (end user exerience) where ads are distracting.

3. Members have alleged some of the advertising is inappropriate as evidenced by its content or lack of content.  Inappropriate content might be considered as adult themed, while lack of content might be referred to by some as 'click bait' -- i.e. the ad does not lead to a retailer but attempts to elicit information.

So we have a sample size (number of posts) of >100 rounded down to 100.   (Let N=100) We have three trends and more than enough triangulation.  (three people-- each from their own perspective saying the same thing.  example might be 3 people witness a car crash.  Each would have his or her own perspective which, when taken together, provides more insight into what happened.

We can now move to what's called a 'qual-quan' approach and use some math.  Qualitative can't be used to generalize while Quantitaive (numbers) can.

That's where a refutable hypothesis comes in.   To make statement, we have to disprove the opposite.

"Forum members generally like the idea of advertising in the gallery and on the forum." (refutable hypothesis)

We have to set a statistical threshold to make sure that our final statement isn't a something that could happen by chance and chance alone.  A fluke or a mistake as it were.  That's called Alpha --  a sort of burdon of proof.   We can make it too easy to refute and it might be true.  (Type one error)   We might be too cauteous and and say it's true when it's really false (Type II error)   .10 is usually a good starting point

So...  

----

"Forum members generally do not like the idea of advertising in the gallery and on the forum. N=100 (p < .10)"

What the company will do with that information is unknown because replies from DAZ employees are less than 30, and only two appear to be involved with one exception.  Three DAZ employees have asked or instructed members to report inapproprite ads through an e-mail address or direct message.

Bottom line.  The odds of 100 members posting that they don't like ads is less than one tenth of one percent of what could occur by chance and chance alone.  

Be interesting to see what the company does or does not do about it.  A trusism to say they've got access to much more information than I do!

 

---
edited for spelling

It's currently between 145 comments, but many people have made more than one comment. Still, I don't think there was any expectation that people would like ads - I doubt the staff at Daz do, either. We have been relaying feedback and i am sure that the whole thing will be reviewed to see how it is working out and what changes might be beneficial.

Silent Winter said:

The link to Xivon's store at the bottom of the sales page shows no products for me ( https://www.daz3d.com/greetings-to-great-artists#&filter_vendor=Xivon&filtered=1 )

Xivon's store has lots of products if I just go there via a search.

The other artists' links seem to be okay (didn't check them all).

Their store is already on sale from a different day, so they are not listed as featured today. The lineup is being fixed. 

I thought I was losing my mind. I saw @FenixPhoenix's Universal Horns for G9 hit the store today, so I thought it might be a good time to grab the G8 horns. Click the link to their store, and no horns. So I thought maybe I'd already bought them and forgot about it, so I unchecked "hide items I own". Still no horns. I had to search the store for them, at which point I discovered that they were only released a few months ago, and so probably weren't eligible for the sale, which is really a conclusion I should have reached a lot sooner.

The link to Xivon's store at the bottom of the sales page shows no products for me ( https://www.daz3d.com/greetings-to-great-artists#&filter_vendor=Xivon&filtered=1 )

Xivon's store has lots of products if I just go there via a search.

The other artists' links seem to be okay (didn't check them all).

I can now see only two lines of forum text when the giant ad is on the bottom of the screen.

So I tried to search for the product's commercial forum, SY A Big Mess, but just get a ton of results that have nothing to do with the product or the issue (every thread containing the letter "A" shows up).

Basically I'm trying to apply the product's Layered LIE Blood Tile for Clothes and Hair to clothing items, and on some items it works, on other items it either changes the tint of the item to make it look cloudy with the blood, sometimes completely without the blood at all but still changes the tint.

How am I misusing the product?  I'm selecting my Surfaces tool, highlighting the surface I want to use the product on, and then double clicking the Layered item from my library. 

Seriously confused as to why it's changing the entire tint of items as well..?  Attaching two images, one before applying the LIE and one with the LIE applied.  The one with the LIE applied shows that no blood was added to the surface but the entire color of the item has been changed... I don't get it?

LynnInDenver said:

 

It is clear I am not a customer, I am product to be sold.

I'm retired with a graduate background research.  Doesn't take fancy schooling though.   You didn't ask, but I'm going to share some observations.

In my estimate, all lf us are both consumers and our behavior as consumers is a commody.  Purchases can be analyzed.  "This person might like Sci-Fi as evidenced by purchasing  x, y, & z.    Where does the customer live?  What time is he or she active on the net?  From what kind of device?"   The list could go on. 

So I backed off and looked at the topic from a research standpoint.  (skip to conclusion if want to)

--

Qualitative research is just listening to people or in this case reading.   It looks for common themes or trends.

1. Members have stated they do not like ads in the gallery for a number of reasons.  The most prevalent appears to be that members do not want to share their gallery with friends and family if the gallery is has been made (subjectively) less pleasant with advertising.

2. Members have stated they do not like advertising on the forum itself.  The most prevalent reason given appears to be a poor UX (end user exerience) where ads are distracting.

3. Members have alleged some of the advertising is inappropriate as evidenced by its content or lack of content.  Inappropriate content might be considered as adult themed, while lack of content might be referred to by some as 'click bait' -- i.e. the ad does not lead to a retailer but attempts to elicit information.

So we have a sample size (number of posts) of >100 rounded down to 100.   (Let N=100) We have three trends and more than enough triangulation.  (three people-- each from their own perspective saying the same thing.  example might be 3 people witness a car crash.  Each would have his or her own perspective which, when taken together, provides more insight into what happened.

We can now move to what's called a 'qual-quan' approach and use some math.  Qualitative can't be used to generalize while Quantitaive (numbers) can.

That's where a refutable hypothesis comes in.   To make statement, we have to disprove the opposite.

"Forum members generally like the idea of advertising in the gallery and on the forum." (refutable hypothesis)

We have to set a statistical threshold to make sure that our final statement isn't a something that could happen by chance and chance alone.  A fluke or a mistake as it were.  That's called Alpha --  a sort of burdon of proof.   We can make it too easy to refute and it might be true.  (Type one error)   We might be too cauteous and and say it's true when it's really false (Type II error)   .10 is usually a good starting point

So...  

----

"Forum members generally do not like the idea of advertising in the gallery and on the forum. N=100 (p < .10)"

What the company will do with that information is unknown because replies from DAZ employees are less than 30, and only two appear to be involved with one exception.  Three DAZ employees have asked or instructed members to report inapproprite ads through an e-mail address or direct message.

Bottom line.  The odds of 100 members posting that they don't like ads is less than one tenth of one percent of what could occur by chance and chance alone.  

Be interesting to see what the company does or does not do about it.  A trusism to say they've got access to much more information than I do!

---
edited for spelling

I disabled Adblock Plus to see what ads were being served - I got a bedding ad - not interested, but benign - and several non-ads that wanted me to click on a link for a manual or to start an install for a "converter", name and type unspecified.
I will never click on an unknown link.

I also see that the ads are coming from google.ads.doubleclick - and that's when I realized I hadn't installed Privoxy on this laptop.

Privoxy is now installed - it blocks, out of the box, all access to <anything>.ads.<anything> and suppresses all 1X1 transparent gif trackers.

Now a  further thought -

The Gallery serves as an example of what can be done with products purchased here; the forum provides much needed support, especially for new users, as well as an excellent collection of how-to and what-can-be-done-with topics. Third party ads are interfering with the function of both. Daz is a retail sales outlet; if there is a financing issue for the free ads from user posts in the forum or gallery raise the prices on the items being sold here.

I realize this will cause problems and negative feedback, so it's a tradeoff - how many sales get lost from higher prices or how many sales get lost because people leave due to the ads.

I do not suggest changing the continuous sale/discount model currently in use. J C Penney tried that and they never recovered from the loss of customers.

As for me - if I can block the ads I don't care - but I do not frequent web sites with unblockable ads.

kyoto kid said:

DanaTA said:

Has DAZ been hacked?  Or are they actually putting ads at the top of the forum page?  I never saw this in here before today...

 ..not seeing any here, but then I have fairly robust advert blocking software active and apparently Daz doesn't have antii-advert blocking software like other sites have .

Of course it will likely only be a matter of time before they do.

Never mind, I misread your post.

kyoto kid said:

DanaTA said:

Has DAZ been hacked?  Or are they actually putting ads at the top of the forum page?  I never saw this in here before today...

 ..not seeing any here, but then I have fairly robust advert blocking software active and apparently Daz doesn't have antii-advert blocking software like other sites have .

Of course it will likely only be a matter of time before they do.

Then we will bring out the ((advert blocking) blocking) blocking software.

DanaTA said:

Has DAZ been hacked?  Or are they actually putting ads at the top of the forum page?  I never saw this in here before today...

 ..not seeing any here, but then I have fairly robust advert blocking software active and apparently Daz doesn't have antii-advert blocking software like other sites have .

Of course it will likely only be a matter of time before they do.

NylonGirl said:

LeatherGryphon said:

Any bets on how long before we have to pay to subscribe to use the forum?

My guess is they will add a few more advertisements and try to charge people money to get rid of the ads.

Good point.

I'm not fond of ads unrelated to the store/forum I'm visiting.  I do understand the need for a business to maximize their income streams.

As others have pointed out, the gallery ads detract from the viewing experience there.

I'm not in the demographic that clicks on website ads as I always ignore them.  However, I really do enjoy seeing my daily DAZ and DAZ+ emails every morning before I log in to the DAZ website.

Nor am I fond of ads inside of DAZ Studio itself (DIM is fine).  I'm there to get underway with my creative process and find the (few) ads distracting and a waste of space in the dialogue boxes.  That said, I'm not greatly upset with it in the current implementation.

A few minutes ago I put all my 2023 DAZ store orders into a spreadsheet to tally up how much I'd spent here during 2023.  I'm certain that DAZ doesn't consider me a valued customer with just $5,317.99 worth of purchases last year.  That seems like an insignificant amount for DAZ's revenues, so I have no right to voice my opinion, but here we are. :) 

In 2022, after various product quality and forum issues, I slowed down my spending here. I used the money I set aside for my 3D/photography/computer/tech hobbies and spent some of it to buy a new 2022 electric vehicle in full.  So that was a time when I decided not to support DAZ as much as I'd have done otherwise.

I'm getting the same vibes now.  My impression is that DAZ seems to be struggling somewhat, which may not be accurate.  But it's the impression I'm getting from the consumer side of things. Also, the lack of DS 5 that will help bring more parity with the Windows version for us Mac users.  It looked like we were getting close in July 2021, but almost 3 years later and we're still limping along with a modestly useful version on newer (Apple Silicon) Macs.

I've been filling my wishlist with the recent new releases over the past few weeks and only picking up the occasional freebie when I feel like it.

I use DAZ Studio very nearly every day to create new character dial ups and sample renders.  I get a lot of enjoyment from that and showing what I've done with others.  There are so many great folks here and at other websites.

Best wishes to DAZ that they continue to have a successful business now and well into the future.

Lee

Charlie Judge said:

Sven Dullah said:

Umm, are you guys still seeing forum ads? They disappeared for me without using any ad blocker. Too good to be true, or a temporary glitch?

I'm not seeing them now. Hopefully they are gone. 

I guess not having the ads was too good to be true. I am again seeing ads both on the forum and in the gallery. 

LeatherGryphon said:

Any bets on how long before we have to pay to subscribe to use the forum?

My guess is they will add a few more advertisements and try to charge people money to get rid of the ads.

frank0314 said:

richardandtracy said:

One of the reasons I liked coming here to the forums is the lack of adverts. They are horrifically intrusive on many sites. My local newspaper (Kent Messenger) blocks browsers using adblocker & then makes it impossible to read articles due to intrusive adverts. Net result is I don't visit & I don't buy the paper like I used to because I'm so irritated by the adverts online.

It is an honest lesson for DAZ to learn.

Regards,

Richard.

Like the great majority of websites on the internet have learned? I can't go to a site without ads. I just have to live with it and today's business practices. Whatever the leaders in the industry do, the others will fall in line. Do we have to like it? No, but inevitably have to live with it unless we give up online services.

I don't do farcebook because of ads. In fact I don't do any social media due to ads. For me, ads are an unwelcome intrusion that I don't accept. DAZ is welcome to do all the ads they want on the forum, it is their space after all, but I shan't see very many because I don't need or want to see them. I will be disappointed if they return (I can't see any at the moment), but I wouldn't stay. I used to regularly go to The Fountain Pen Network, a hobby I adore and moderated as a volunteer there for 7 years, but they started taking ads. Not been back for a decade other than an annual check to see if they still do. On the bright side, restarting ads will save me a lot of money in the long term. At least with this hobby, until I find another. Regards, Richard

ColinFrench said:

Charlie Judge said:

I can understanding DAZ using ads to support what is otherwise free to the user.

Sorry, but I'll have to take the other side -- Daz sells products and a tiny part of the profit from its sales can be used to run the Gallery and Forum.

I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, you're correct that while Daz STUDIO might be free, DS is just a loss leader for the assets available in the store. Unlike Facebook, Twitter et al, Daz sells products directly to the consumer, and theoretically that should underwrite things like the forums and gallery. On the other hand, the forums and gallery are entirely free to the user, and I see some justification in running ads to offset those costs.

Sven Dullah said:

Umm, are you guys still seeing forum ads? They disappeared for me without using any ad blocker. Too good to be true, or a temporary glitch?

A space opens up for them, and they auto-hide themselves. SOMETHING is still happening, but I'm not seeing the actual ads. I'd prefer even that didn't happen, but it's still an improvement.

ColinFrench said:

Richard Haseltine said:

If you get adult or otherwise iffy ads, privately or when using your own ID, please send the details to us (via a forum post or a PM) and we will flag them for Daz, who can block specific ads.

Richard, I hope you read the following post in the manner I wrote it -- I'm not mad at you or Daz, I'm not yelling at anybody, I just want to highlight the absurdity of the suggestion you and other mods have made.

With all these obstrusive ads, Daz has made choices which are extremely customer-unfriendly. And now you want us to take the time to do the job that Daz itself should be handling? Sorry, but Daz can do its own work.

A really simple solution to porn ads or cypto-schemes etc appearing in the Gallery and Forum? Get rid of the ads!

Daz doesn't have fine up-front cotnrol of what is shown (I think they can set some category/type limits, but those are clearly not reliable). They can block specific ads, however. Getting rid of all ads or keeping them is not a decision on which we have any say, however.

PerttiA said:

Sven Dullah said:

Umm, are you guys still seeing forum ads? They disappeared for me without using any ad blocker. Too good to be true, or a temporary glitch?

I haven't seen them at all, not at work with W10+Chrome and not at home with W7+Yandex (Opera)
When loading a page, it leaves a space for a second at the top of the page, but even that goes away before the page has fully loaded.

Ok, same here now...so there is still the space reserved for ads, which is why I fear they might be back, after DAZ filter the most offending NSFW stuff?!