Mike 8.1 definitely looks like he's ~18-24 to me in the promos (and with some expressions), but messing with the actual model he seemed like he could be anywhere from 20 to a youngish 30. Maybe it's because me and a bunch of my friends had terminal babyface until our mid-thirties. 

The biggest issue I have with him is that with Victoria 8.1, the difference in expressions was immediately obvious to me. When I dial in a smile expression, she looks alive in a way I couldn't quite reach with basic 8, and I think it's because the expression seems to reach her eyes more. Michael 8.1 looks good to me with a neutral expression, but when he smiles it's kind of uncanny. I can't recall if I mentioned it earlier, but his overall mouth size is pretty small and it sits high on his face, while his chin, jaw, and nose are broad and fairly strong. I think it makes it hard for full smiles or other dynamic expressions to affect his entire face. A similar thing happens with some G8 characters, where smiles on a small mouth shape will pull it up into sort of a pout or look weird if stretched wide. What's interesting is that he looks most natural to me with a full-face smile in the promo pic where he has a beard, I think because it balances out those proportions and makes the size of his jaw less obvious. 

(I'm glad I got him and this isn't really an "augh he sucks" complaint, I just like to pick at what makes things work or not work for me in character design.)

Summerhorse said:

Could anyone who has tried Trance without M8.1 comment or post how he looks?

The images I posted of him on the first couple pages of the thread are without M8.1. :D He doesn't require him at all, he's a standalone (that seems to be the case with most characters in core bundles now?). 

Charlie Judge said:

drafter69_696b99e42b said:

Will products for Michael 8 still work with 8.1?    

 

Mostly yes; but some expressions may not work. 

Does M8.1 present the same issue as Victoria 8.1,  where you have to move a couple files out of the data folder in order for G8M expressions to work on the newer model?

Those are definitely better lit. The front and back full shots look very good. The shadows and rim light in Linius Promo 03 are really nice - there's a lot of good detail showing around the ribcage and arms and that shows off your body morph well. As Hylas said, it does look like your bump and/or normal maps are too strong. They're good details, but at that strength they look a bit rough and overly bumpy. You might want to dial the values down on those. It looks like there may be a seam where the face texture meets the torso, but it's hard to tell just from those shots - might want to double check that area. :)

I like the paleness of his skin, but think it's a little too dry/chalky looking. I haven't tried the new PBR Skin shader yet myself, but I expect there are settings in there that can help with that. Take a look at page 2 of this thread, where a user called melissastjames shows several images that show her shader settings for the comparison pictures she posted. That might give you ideas of what settings to play with to get a nice result with your textures. If you have Victoria or Michael 8.1, you could use their settings as a comparison as well. Human skin tends to be a bit oily, so striking a balance between dry and too much (where it starts to look greasy or like shiny plastic) is important. Sometimes it just takes a lot of tweaking the dials until you get what you like. Also, I would say that his eyes seem flat; there's no shine to them. That may be the lighting, of course, but make sure that the cornea and eye moisture materials pick up reflections to really show off the eyes. You could compare your settings to those of any Daz Original or other character you have and build from there. With a few tweaks to the textures, I think all those promos will end up looking very good. I think you're making good progress! Keep it up and don't be discouraged by critique. I think you've got a very promising character there, and would love to see you achieve your goal of becoming a PA.

PerttiA said:

Hylas said:

Like with all characters, only buy him if you like his morph and skin. He happens to get released at the same time as the new G8.1M base figure, but ultimately Michael 8.1 is just another character,

Except, many future characters will require M8.1 to look the way they were meant, the same way that's done with previous Victoria/Michael generations, in that sense Victoria and Michael are not "just another character"

 Base characters aren't as important as they used to be when V8/M8 first came out.  Some PA characters will probably be based on them, sure, but not even Trance, a character included in the M8.1 bundle requires M8.1.  You didn't see that with the M8 Pro Bundle.

PerttiA said:

Hylas said:

Like with all characters, only buy him if you like his morph and skin. He happens to get released at the same time as the new G8.1M base figure, but ultimately Michael 8.1 is just another character,

Except, many future characters will require M8.1 to look the way they were meant, the same way that's done with previous Victoria/Michael generations, in that sense Victoria and Michael are not "just another character"

Fair enough.

At least in the past there has been a significant amount of characters that require Michael or Victoria.

But both V8.1 and M8.1 were just introduced without a single add-on character. Who knows if they'll get as many add-on characters as previous Michaels and Victorias?

At the same time so many great characters are released that don't require anything other than the bare Genesis base figure.

In any case, you can still eventually buy M8.1 when a character based on him is published that you absolutely can't do without.

I wouldn't buy a character now just because at one point in the future he might be required for something else.

Buy him now if you want him now.

N_R Arts said:

$75?! You've got to be kidding. And no poses or expressions either? What a joke! Sometimes, it's like Daz doesn't want people to buy male content... >_>

Yes, it seems really pricey and even more so than Victoria 8.1 bundle was. The cheapest I could get the Varsity bundle and HD add-on is $89. I like the bundle but I'm not sure I can really afford to buy it

Hylas said:

Like with all characters, only buy him if you like his morph and skin. He happens to get released at the same time as the new G8.1M base figure, but ultimately Michael 8.1 is just another character,

Except, many future characters will require M8.1 to look the way they were meant, the same way that's done with previous Victoria/Michael generations, in that sense Victoria and Michael are not "just another character"

melissastjames said:

nonesuch00 said:

Mainly because using the FACS expressions is so much easier and improved

The new face rig should be included with the base G8.1 Male so you should get it just by updating your Genesis 8 Male Essentials.  

It is! My bad. So mainly to have a skin materials set basis that is functionally equivalent demonstration to Victoria 8.1 although your could set up very similar yourself with the new PBR Skin  Material preset. without buying either having a reference for both is convenient.

No 3DL = no sale. That said, I do like the sculpt, and I like the fact that this is a *young* character. DAZ hasn't done official teen males for a long time, and this is probably as close as we're going to get. 

I also like the fact that he and Victoria are not as overwhelmingly tall as their previous versions. A 6-foot male, and a 5-foot 8 female are a good deal closer to what architectural standards are built for. Vicky's still on the tall side, but not overwhelmingly so.

There are definitely things to like about the new characters. But neither is compelling, and demanding a program upgrade to use them is not a selling point.

Did buy the hair and the wheelchair, however. 

Mainly because using the FACS expressions is so much easier and improved and less so for the new IRay PBR Skin shader materials. And if you bought Victoria 8.1, Michael 8.1 is a given if you want Victoria 8.1 to have a technically quivalent  male, unless you buy only female models.

That the character itself it as good in uniqueness and modeled quality as prior 8.0 characters that people bought with no complaints is a good reason too, if you collect on that basis of being a DO featured Genesis character. Quite a few people do.

JOdel said:

vwrangler said:

A puzzling thing: according to his product page, Michael 8.1 includes 3Delight settings, and Victoria didn't. He also includes an add-on character in his first bundle, and Victoria didn't include a character in either of her bundles.

Beyond that, he's MUCH younger looking than Michael 8, and not nearly as lantern-jawed.

Mostly, I just kind of want Trance, though.

Where does it say there are 3DL settings. I looked and didn't see any. 

The product details list "03 Subsurface Level Presets (3Delight)", but that's the only mention of 3DL. Probably a copy/paste from M8 page not modified properly

For the record, there's the same line on V8.1 page.

The character is alright but now without the banners I'm looking at the price of the bundles and am shaking my head, no way. I was alright paying like 46 bucks for pro bundles before, usually under sixty with the three add-ons, but this and the Victoria ones were in the mid to high 80's for everything, and these bundles that are very focused I'm finding very little that I can use or kitbash together so the price is just too much for two or three items I want.

Side note/question. Does anyone else's Daz crash when they have the FAC rig attached and they move the character away from the zero position on the grid? This isn't a 8.1 issue either, it was crashing with the FAC attachment they released for G8 a couple months ago, but I was so saddened when it happened the other day when I had Victoria 8.1 loaded in for my scene and I moved her around. Nothing happens if you don't move the character away from it's starting spot, but every time I move the character it doesn't last. 

vwrangler said:

A puzzling thing: according to his product page, Michael 8.1 includes 3Delight settings, and Victoria didn't. He also includes an add-on character in his first bundle, and Victoria didn't include a character in either of her bundles.

Beyond that, he's MUCH younger looking than Michael 8, and not nearly as lantern-jawed.

Mostly, I just kind of want Trance, though.

Where does it say there are 3DL settings. I looked and didn't see any. 

Barubary said:

Leana said:

Wicked Whomp said:

Leana said:

Barubary said:

I wonder, are the Male and Female Anatomical Elements in the Varsity Bundle the same that are in the Victoria 8.1 Bundles? Or are they the specific versions for only Genesis 8.1 Male?

Geografts are figure-specific, so they would be the version for G8M.

The Genesis 8.1 page that lists the updates specifically mentions that male anatomical elements will now work on females. Conversely, female anatomical elements will work on males.
If this isn't actually the case, then Daz needs to update their page.

I read that blurb as "there's now a version of the male elements which works on the female", not "the add-on made for G8M works for G8F too".

I just redownloaded the anatomical elements to check and each of the zips now includes 2 items :

• The G8F Anatomical elements zip includes "Genesis 8 Female Genitalia" and "Genesis 8.1 Female Genitalia for Male"
• The G8M one includes "Genesis 8 Male Genitalia" and "Genesis 8.1 Male Genitalia for Female".

 Items for male and female are separate, they're probably made so that the UVs are the same and they can use the same morphs though.

Thanks a lot for checking! That is disappointing, even though it isn't surprising ^^; Though I guess, as an owner of some of the older Pro Bundles, I'm good anyways. Kind of a relief as I am not into the new bundle (except for the wheelchair stuff).

Well they would have had to change how geografts work to get the same one to work on both figures, so that would have meant a DS update too.

I can confirm that you'll get the new anatomical elements as an update for the ones you got from past pro bundles, not only from the 8.1 bundles, as I didn't purchase the new bundles.

Leana said:

Wicked Whomp said:

Leana said:

Barubary said:

I wonder, are the Male and Female Anatomical Elements in the Varsity Bundle the same that are in the Victoria 8.1 Bundles? Or are they the specific versions for only Genesis 8.1 Male?

Geografts are figure-specific, so they would be the version for G8M.

The Genesis 8.1 page that lists the updates specifically mentions that male anatomical elements will now work on females. Conversely, female anatomical elements will work on males.
If this isn't actually the case, then Daz needs to update their page.

I read that blurb as "there's now a version of the male elements which works on the female", not "the add-on made for G8M works for G8F too".

I just redownloaded the anatomical elements to check and each of the zips now includes 2 items :

• The G8F Anatomical elements zip includes "Genesis 8 Female Genitalia" and "Genesis 8.1 Female Genitalia for Male"
• The G8M one includes "Genesis 8 Male Genitalia" and "Genesis 8.1 Male Genitalia for Female".

 Items for male and female are separate, they're probably made so that the UVs are the same and they can use the same morphs though.

Thanks a lot for checking! That is disappointing, even though it isn't surprising ^^; Though I guess, as an owner of some of the older Pro Bundles, I'm good anyways. Kind of a relief as I am not into the new bundle (except for the wheelchair stuff).

-----

I have to say, every render in this thread so far has the official promos beat (although the body hair still makes me chuckle when I see it). Not sure what went wrong there.

Also - and please correct me if I'm wrong - we can now celebrate having twice as many Genesis 8.1 Male characters as we have Genesis 8.1 Female ones. What a special day.

NylonGirl said:

So if I were to start with Victoria 8.1, apply a material preset from a Victoria 8 character, and then click on one of the presets from Skin Detail Resource 1, would that work or not work?

i mean you dont have to do it in that order, but yes.

It's a material preset, so if you click your G8.1 character with the appropriate skin shader, it will apply the details to the relevant surfaces.

You can use the material on G8M and G8F too, but it wont work on G8 torso surface because the surface name for G8.1 torso changed to 'body' instead of 'torso'.  So you would have to manually add it to that G8 surface.

Tugpsx said:

@melissastjames  Thanks with a little adjustment the skin looks a bit better. Will have to adjust the sheen since it looks a bit dry.

Yes, you might need to tweak around with all of the settings, as mine are dependent upon the maps I'm using. So your specularity (shine) map might be lighter in color, thus needing a lighter touch on the dual-lobe settings. Same goes for bump, etc.  
I would honestly recommend trying to play around with something other than the base G8F skin. Like try maybe Babina 8 or any of the newer base figures. I do most of my work with playing around with the base figure skins because those are typically the highest quality in terms of detail. You need to consider good specular and bump maps as well, and they typically provide that (there are a lot of PA skins that while providing good color maps, might not have very good specular and/or bump maps). I've even improved some PA skins by swapping in a specular map from one of the base figures (I love Victoria 7's specular maps so much I use them a lot mixed in with other skins). Raiya is another one that typically has good skins you can play around with starting with my recommended settings. 

My first render of Victoria 8.1 HD with the vellus hair. I hope, that next characters of Genesis 8.1 series will be more user friendly

and will look better with different light setups.

So if I were to start with Victoria 8.1, apply a material preset from a Victoria 8 character, and then click on one of the presets from Skin Detail Resource 1, would that work or not work?

Yea Jethal, the seam being around the neck can be an issue, for those cases Gen 8 will have to do.

Thanks for posting your work here. :) 

Michael and Gen 8.1 gives us a high quality character when needed. 

I am glad that most other stuff works still, I plan to use Michael 8.1 for most scenes. 

Please post your Michael 8.1 and Genesis 8.1 scenes here Daz peeps!

Victoria 8.1 is welcome too! :)