Spent a bit more time on this than I intended. That would be because I actually made a false start to it, got almost completely finished, and then hated the results. So I started over and re-did it. All in all, I'm mostly pleased with this version (and I made it under the deadline for a change).

This is a 2-page spread for a fanzine (the Collectors' Club Newsletter -- look for us on Facebook if you're interested in learning more or joining). "Anthems" is a feature that pairs superheroes and music. It's a silly thing, really, but fun. This issue I decided to tap into the power of SHAZAM and list one song for each letter of the magic word. As you can see, I chose a mostly classic rock theme. BTW, you should listen to the songs in order that they're listed; they make for a decent little playlist.

Figure is Victoria 4 with various morphs applied. Costume is a classic by the great Terry McG (can't recall if this was free at ShareCG or if I paid for it). All work was done in Poser Pro 11 and Clip Studio Paint. I did this the old-fashioned way: I rendered her in b&w and then manually colored the image. That's really the only way to duplicate the way comics are colored, especially when shooting for this look. Hair is Marisandra hair. Pose from MightyMite.

Mary Marvel © 2021 DC Comics

Leider hat noch nichts funktioniert. Was in Poser kein Problem ist, funktioniert in Daz3d aufgrund der dazeigenen duf. Datei nicht. Vermutlich habe ich die Textur auch falsch abgelegt. Leider ist mein Englisch nicht so gut, um international nachzuhaken. Es stellt sich für mich also die Frage: kann ich eine Bilddatei .jpg usw. in eine .duf Datei umwandeln und wo lege ich eine Textur ( z.B. Victoria 8) ab. ... ( Daz ist ja mittlerweile auch ziemlich unübersichtlich geworden )

intercept789 said:

So is Face Mojo going to be updated to allow use with Victoria 8.1?

 Yup! The update should have went live Feb. 25th.

algovincian said:

Richard Haseltine said:

algovincian said:

Bejaymac said:

peteanderson1212 said:

Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure. 

 

Long load times are down to a couple of issues.

1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.

2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.

Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -

CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf  = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf  = 933 ERC

That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.

Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.

One general concept that I've employed in the past when developing real-time applications is to setup as much as possible ahead of time, leaving less to do at runtime. I'm wondering if this approach might be useful in this case.

My understanding is that numerous small files (relatively speaking) need to be read from disk when a figure is loaded. Once read in, then the structures/references must be setup in memory.

I'm wondering if this can't be done pre-runtime, with the result being a single large file (basically a memory dump) with the references already setup for a given figure. This single large file could then be read into memory when loading the figure. This pre-runtime process could be repeated whenever new content was installed (again, pre-runtime).

I'm guessing there would be complications with pointers, etc. as it's not a simple fixed memory situation but rather a general purpose computing situation that must run on unknown hardware. I'm not suggesting it would be trivial and I'm certain there are things that I'm not aware (obviously I didn't write the code for DS), but it may still be worth investigating. The long load times take much of the joy out of using DS (and actively discourage spending money on large libraries).

- Greg

DzCreateExPFiles-v4.bat and so on did this for the fourth geenation figures. Some people hated it, and frequently got in a mess with it.

DS already has the DSON cache.

I wasn't around for that era, but I read this page:

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207530923-Why-is-the-update-from-Victoria-4-0-to-Victoria-4-X-What-is-ExP-technology-

Unless I'm not understanding something, the whole ExP/INJ system didn't really function like what I'm suggesting at all - there would be no selective injecting or anything like that at runtime.

I googled the DSON cache and found several threads about it (questions with no answers). It seems obvious that it doesn't function to sufficiently speed load times, though.

Something really needs to be done about the load/delete times, and un-installing content that you've paid for isn't really a solution. I know I've pretty much stopped buying figures because DS is getting unusable from a practical standpoint. I'm know not the only one.

- Greg

or maybe the system wouldn't greatly - or at all - speed loading, and that's why the cache seems to do limited good. It may well be that such a system was considered and rejected as having too little benefit for its cost in other respects (such as adding new content in a way that doesn't confuse the average user).

Richard Haseltine said:

algovincian said:

Bejaymac said:

peteanderson1212 said:

Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure. 

 

Long load times are down to a couple of issues.

1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.

2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.

Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -

CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf  = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf  = 933 ERC

That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.

Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.

One general concept that I've employed in the past when developing real-time applications is to setup as much as possible ahead of time, leaving less to do at runtime. I'm wondering if this approach might be useful in this case.

My understanding is that numerous small files (relatively speaking) need to be read from disk when a figure is loaded. Once read in, then the structures/references must be setup in memory.

I'm wondering if this can't be done pre-runtime, with the result being a single large file (basically a memory dump) with the references already setup for a given figure. This single large file could then be read into memory when loading the figure. This pre-runtime process could be repeated whenever new content was installed (again, pre-runtime).

I'm guessing there would be complications with pointers, etc. as it's not a simple fixed memory situation but rather a general purpose computing situation that must run on unknown hardware. I'm not suggesting it would be trivial and I'm certain there are things that I'm not aware (obviously I didn't write the code for DS), but it may still be worth investigating. The long load times take much of the joy out of using DS (and actively discourage spending money on large libraries).

- Greg

DzCreateExPFiles-v4.bat and so on did this for the fourth geenation figures. Some people hated it, and frequently got in a mess with it.

DS already has the DSON cache.

I wasn't around for that era, but I read this page:

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207530923-Why-is-the-update-from-Victoria-4-0-to-Victoria-4-X-What-is-ExP-technology-

Unless I'm not understanding something, the whole ExP/INJ system didn't really function like what I'm suggesting at all - there would be no selective injecting or anything like that at runtime.

I googled the DSON cache and found several threads about it (questions with no answers). It seems obvious that it doesn't function to sufficiently speed load times, though.

Something really needs to be done about the load/delete times, and un-installing content that you've paid for isn't really a solution. I know I've pretty much stopped buying figures because DS is getting unusable from a practical standpoint. I'm know not the only one.

- Greg

algovincian said:

Bejaymac said:

peteanderson1212 said:

Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure. 

 

Long load times are down to a couple of issues.

1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.

2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.

Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -

CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf  = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf  = 933 ERC

That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.

Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.

One general concept that I've employed in the past when developing real-time applications is to setup as much as possible ahead of time, leaving less to do at runtime. I'm wondering if this approach might be useful in this case.

My understanding is that numerous small files (relatively speaking) need to be read from disk when a figure is loaded. Once read in, then the structures/references must be setup in memory.

I'm wondering if this can't be done pre-runtime, with the result being a single large file (basically a memory dump) with the references already setup for a given figure. This single large file could then be read into memory when loading the figure. This pre-runtime process could be repeated whenever new content was installed (again, pre-runtime).

I'm guessing there would be complications with pointers, etc. as it's not a simple fixed memory situation but rather a general purpose computing situation that must run on unknown hardware. I'm not suggesting it would be trivial and I'm certain there are things that I'm not aware (obviously I didn't write the code for DS), but it may still be worth investigating. The long load times take much of the joy out of using DS (and actively discourage spending money on large libraries).

- Greg

DzCreateExPFiles-v4.bat and so on did this for the fourth geenation figures. Some people hated it, and frequently got in a mess with it.

DS already has the DSON cache.

Bejaymac said:

peteanderson1212 said:

Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure. 

 

Long load times are down to a couple of issues.

1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.

2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.

Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -

CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf  = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf  = 933 ERC

That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.

Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.

One general concept that I've employed in the past when developing real-time applications is to setup as much as possible ahead of time, leaving less to do at runtime. I'm wondering if this approach might be useful in this case.

My understanding is that numerous small files (relatively speaking) need to be read from disk when a figure is loaded. Once read in, then the structures/references must be setup in memory.

I'm wondering if this can't be done pre-runtime, with the result being a single large file (basically a memory dump) with the references already setup for a given figure. This single large file could then be read into memory when loading the figure. This pre-runtime process could be repeated whenever new content was installed (again, pre-runtime).

I'm guessing there would be complications with pointers, etc. as it's not a simple fixed memory situation but rather a general purpose computing situation that must run on unknown hardware. I'm not suggesting it would be trivial and I'm certain there are things that I'm not aware (obviously I didn't write the code for DS), but it may still be worth investigating. The long load times take much of the joy out of using DS (and actively discourage spending money on large libraries).

- Greg

peteanderson1212 said:

Considering some/a lot of the expression morphs from 8.0 aren't going to work on 8.1, hopefully they can update this asset in regards so that the 8.1 figure doesn't go about hunting for the 8.0 expression morphs. My loadup times are 10 times larger with 8.1 figures, and my log file is like 2000 times larger than the normal log file when loading a 8.0 figure. 

Long load times are down to a couple of issues.

1) DS has always been poor at dealing with large amounts of complicated ERC, it basically bogs down the program causing it to load slower and slower the more it has to deal with, DS4 can handle far more ERC than DS1, 2 or 3 could but it still has limits.

2) Genesis 8 is an enormous cluster**** of complicated ERC, damn near every DSF file in the morphs folder is overloaded with ERC, and DS just can't cope with it.

Lets take Victoria 8 as an example -

CTRLVictoria8.dsf = 2 ERC
FHMVictoria8.dsf  = 531 ERC
FBMVictoria8.dsf  = 933 ERC

That is just 3 of the 52 DSF files she comes with, and all the rest have ERC in them, so a couple of thousand ERC for each DO character you have installed. Add in some of the other characters in this store, and things like AFE, or Zev0's products and you could easily be hitting a million plus ERC when you load G8F.

Then there's 8.1, not only does it have to load all it's own ERC, but with 4.15+ it also has to deal with all 8.0's crap as well.

PerttiA said:

blaz said:

Damn it, I knew they were older products but I thought they got updated to work with 8.1.

I know about the folder workaround but I was hoping to avoid it since my expression library is not that big.

The textures aren't really a problem since DAZ did a great job. And we have Map Transfer...

 

Thanks for all the answers.

I don't understand why the size of your expression library makes you want to avoid the workaround/fix...

Making the G8 base expressions (and any expressions that are using them) work on G8.1 requires removing dummy/placeholder expressions that are installed to G8.1 morph folders - These dummy/placeholder expression files have no other function than to prevent the base G8 expressions from loading. 

The dummy/placeholder files are located in;

...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\ (255 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Female 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\ (24 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Base Pose Head\ (255 files)
...\Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis 8\Male 8_1\Morphs\Daz 3D\Expressions\ (24 files)

Please make sure you are removing the files from G8.1 morph folders and not G8 morph folders.

@PerttiA That's the most concise explanation I've seen yet. I will resist saying something snarky about Daz' failing to provide this information. Now, would you happen to know why Daz might have felt it was useful or necessary to prevent the loading of these files?

@certaintree38 Thanks for your explanation. I waded through several pages of the Victoria 8.1 thread looking for this info.

@jonsebask04 I'm thinking she's Tara 2 HD.

nicstt said:

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

It's not about the shader but the new UVs; the extra map (the head) is there to give better detail around the neck. 

 

Shader & UV improvements

• Genesis 8.1 adds a new PBR (Physically Based Rendering) skin shader.
• The Genesis 8.1 skin shader introduces improvements for Subsurface Scattering (less waxy skin), resulting in incredibly lifelike skin.
• Added support to leverage MicroSkin tiling micro normal maps from our partners at Texturing.xyz
• New processes and resources in our pipeline have been added to ensure details between sculpts and textures better match, resulting in greater realism.
• Updated UVs for better pixel density and better seams.
• All these combined create a better looking skin in Genesis 8.1.
• Update your Daz Studio Default Resources package (DIM or DazCentral) to 4.15+ to access our new skin shader for Genesis 8.1 characters.

taken from: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 ;

...so now instead of having a seam that is hidden almost entirely by hair, you now have a seam that runs and smacks you upside the face by going right across the collarbone. I still don't see how that's a good change. 

If the pixel density were such a huge issue as to be noticeable on a super close-up (I've never even noticed it as an issue when composing any of my pieces), one could have simply upscaled the body to 8k to off-set the 4k head map. It's not the best solution in the world, but with the improved upscale algorithms out there, it's a better option than putting a seam across the collarbone, imo.  

Atanacius said:

@nemesis10 :
so, "The enhanced capabilities of 8.1 are not backward compatible, however, so you won't be able to apply the new skins and capabilities on a Genesis 8 character."
That's mean if I purchase that:
https://www.daz3d.com/leon-hd-for-genesis-81-male
Where I can purchase Genesis 8.1 Male ?
I mean, in the page here: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1
We're talking about a Victoria 8.1 / Michael 8.1... But not anything on a Genesis 8.1 Male/Female base?

The base figures, Genesis 8.1 Female and Male are included in "Genesis 8 Starter Essentials" which is free (included in DS), just download the updated version and install.

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

It's not about the shader but the new UVs; the extra map (the head) is there to give better detail around the neck. 

Shader & UV improvements

• Genesis 8.1 adds a new PBR (Physically Based Rendering) skin shader.
• The Genesis 8.1 skin shader introduces improvements for Subsurface Scattering (less waxy skin), resulting in incredibly lifelike skin.
• Added support to leverage MicroSkin tiling micro normal maps from our partners at Texturing.xyz
• New processes and resources in our pipeline have been added to ensure details between sculpts and textures better match, resulting in greater realism.
• Updated UVs for better pixel density and better seams.
• All these combined create a better looking skin in Genesis 8.1.
• Update your Daz Studio Default Resources package (DIM or DazCentral) to 4.15+ to access our new skin shader for Genesis 8.1 characters.

taken from: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1 ;

@nemesis10 :
so, "The enhanced capabilities of 8.1 are not backward compatible, however, so you won't be able to apply the new skins and capabilities on a Genesis 8 character."
That's mean if I purchase that:
https://www.daz3d.com/leon-hd-for-genesis-81-male
Where I can purchase Genesis 8.1 Male ?
I mean, in the page here: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1
We're talking about a Victoria 8.1 / Michael 8.1... But not anything on a Genesis 8.1 Male/Female base?

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

I have way, way too many morphs in my library and I'm mostly interested in buying 8.1 characters for skins and maps that match the new UVs. I'm also interested in seeing how more experienced folks manage the shader settings for different types of characters. 

On a broader level, introducing the new layout and features meant vendors having to update their products and provide extended support on short notice. Older expressions and some cosmetic products and tools require workarounds to use on 8.1. From the atmosphere at the time of release, it felt like a lot of people were thinking, "Okay, this is a pain for now, but we might see some really cool new stuff and once support ramps up it'll probably be worth it." That hasn't happened yet, and while in the long run it probably will I think right now there's just legitimate interest in seeing more benefits to it. 

That said, I know there were other people who were really nervous about the whole store potentially shifting over to 8.1 wholesale and leaving those who didn't want to adopt it behind, so there are also benefits to a longer introductory period and options for hybrid characters. The language could just be clearer.

alienarea said:

Not sure if this has been discussed here before, or should be in a new thread.

It seems that Victoria 8.1 is quite disjunct from Genesis 8.1 Female.

Genesis 8 Female and Genesis 8.1 Female seem to be identical in shape. 

In Genesis 3 and 8, when you loaded Victoria (7 for 3 and 8 for 8) and dialed out the Victoria morphs, you had the base genesis female.

With Victoria 8.1, this is not the case. 

As a result, I can apply a shape preset saved from G8 to G8.1 and it looks like my G8 character, nut when I apply it to V8.1 with   Victoria dialed-out, I get a freak.

V8.1 is just a character morph for G8.1F, in that respect nothing has changed.

After dialing out V8.1, what does your "Currently used" list look like (choose 'Show hidden properties' first)? 

Not sure if this has been discussed here before, or should be in a new thread.

It seems that Victoria 8.1 is quite disjunct from Genesis 8.1 Female.

Genesis 8 Female and Genesis 8.1 Female seem to be identical in shape. 

In Genesis 3 and 8, when you loaded Victoria (7 for 3 and 8 for 8) and dialed out the Victoria morphs, you had the base genesis female.

With Victoria 8.1, this is not the case. 

As a result, I can apply a shape preset saved from G8 to G8.1 and it looks like my G8 character, nut when I apply it to V8.1 with   Victoria dialed-out, I get a freak.

Taoz said:

Looks like this one:

https://www.daz3d.com/sammy-hair-for-genesis-2-female-s-and-victoria-4

Yes it does Taoz thank you very much :)

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

I still have to question the choice to move a seam from below the chin/behind the ear to across the collarbone. Just...yeah...I'll continue on preferring the base Genesis 8 UV thankyouverymuch. 

And in regards to the new shader...the benefits above the Uber Shader are again, quite debatable. There are the new tiled normals...which meh...if a character has well-made normals and bump and specular to begin with, the microdetails aren't really needed anyways? And don't get me started on the new shader taking away features from the Uber Shader that a lot of people used and relied on for really nice skin. If I were to purchase a character that uses the new shader, I'd just convert them over to Uber anyways, lol.

It's really all personal preference. I can see how it would be good if a vendor stated what UV map and what shader the character uses, but I don't think it should stop anybody from purchase. As you said, any G8 character can be shifted to 8.1 and get all the benefits of the 8.1 facial rig. That's really the only selling factor of 8.1...the facial rigging. 

outrider42 said:

Guys...the "special shaders" can be applied to literally anything. They are not exclusive to Genesis 8.1. The only changes are the UV map, which is of debatable importance, and the new face rig. Every other "feature" marketed for 8.1 is available very easily for 8.0.

The new PBR shader can use tiles for the details, which means the UV map does not matter. You could apply the PBR shader to Genesis 1,2,3 as well, or even Victoria 3 if you wanted to. Or a banana.

I just want you guys to understand that most of what you are buying here is marketing. Even the face rig that 8.1 uses has roots in 8.0 as a purchased product. So why be bothered by a character actually being for 8.0? You can simply load that character on 8.1 and get all of the advertised benefits of 8.1.

After all, just because a character is 8.1 does not mean that character uses PBR Skin Shader. That is the PA's choice to use it or not.

Thus the advertising on the character is not technically wrong, because this character CAN be used for 8.1, just like all 8.0 characters can be. It may be a bit misleading, but I believe this PA is not a native English speaker and is perhaps as confused as many customers are about 8.1. IMO Daz has failed to create a clear guideline for them.

You're missing the point entirely.  Daz markets to hobbyists and is all about ease of use: click and it works as advertised.  Daz isn't Blender, and certainly doesn't advertise its products as kits, but as ready-to-use assets.  This product was not advertised as a banana, but a Genesis 8.1 character, and that brings with it certain expectations.  If Daz and/or the PA can't meet those expectations, they should expect returns.

Daz hasn't even put a video about 8.1 on their YouTube channel, while there are four (4) on Octane.  This is not how you launch an update to your base figure.