As someone with Windows 10 & 11 and Apple OS computers, I have DAZ 2025/6 downloaded to test and I am grateful to see Filament available on both. Yes, I do use scripts and plug-ins and yes I am cramped, but I knew that going in. DAZ didn't hide that. Even though I do not have a computer science degree I read the Evergreen thread first and then made the decision to go ahead. I still have my Beta versions of 4.23.0.3 installed on all my machines. I have lost nothing. It I have to, I could develop a work method to start a file in one version of D|S and then open it in the other version depending on what I want to do. 

If you look at the Commercial threads there are PAs mentioning that they are working on their scripts even now, taking the chance that their work will not be too wasted as the Alpha progresses. Unfortunately, some of the scripts that are or were available in the store will not able to be updated as the PAs are deceased. So maintaining the older versions of D|S will be wise. 

comradenikola92 said:

squall6leonhart said:

Heureka. Seems like the Viewport Lag is gone with the new update. Good work @Daz3D

No, it isn't. Just installed it. It's only reduced in the empty viewport. Load in any scene with any real complexity and it's down to sub 5 FPS again, both Filament and Texture Shaded. Tested on 7950X3D, 192 GB of RAM and 2x4090s and 9950X3D, 192 GB of RAM and 2x5090s rigs. I have to keep the old rig because 4.24 is unusable with 5090s, which was a kick in the gut.

Removing the second GPU in either rig makes no difference.

EDIT: Loaded in a relatively big one now, 2% GPU utilization at 48.3 W (0.800 V idle voltag) 5090, framerate is 5-9. CPU utilization is averaging 5% system wide. Same scene runs at 45 FPS while uilizing 10% of a single GPU in 4.24 (Filament) and 13 FPS in Texture Shaded mode utilizing 2% of the GPU.

Yeah you are right. Its still there. But an particualr Scene I had troubles with before now works better. But then tested it on FN Lakeside House and the lag is quite heavy here (Runs smooth in 4.24). Too bad. Sorry for getting up hopes.

squall6leonhart said:

Heureka. Seems like the Viewport Lag is gone with the new update. Good work @Daz3D

No, it isn't. Just installed it. It's only reduced in the empty viewport. Load in any scene with any real complexity and it's down to sub 5 FPS again, both Filament and Texture Shaded. Tested on 7950X3D, 192 GB of RAM and 2x4090s and 9950X3D, 192 GB of RAM and 2x5090s rigs. I have to keep the old rig because 4.24 is unusable with 5090s, which was a kick in the gut.

Removing the second GPU in either rig makes no difference.

EDIT: Loaded in a relatively big one now, 2% GPU utilization at 48.3 W (0.800 V idle voltag) 5090, framerate is 5-9. CPU utilization is averaging 5% system wide. Same scene runs at 45 FPS while uilizing 10% of a single GPU in 4.24 (Filament) and 13 FPS in Texture Shaded mode utilizing 2% of the GPU.

Loading in a single character halves the framerate from 200 to 100. And it continues to halve with each bit of complexity added (clothes, hair etc), until the system grinds to 5-9 FPS again.

memcneil70 said:

Another great use for Filament is the setting up of a scene, preparing to test a character or product and the switching to Iray for the final render. Jay Versluis has a great tutorial on this. I loved it when I had only my Windows computers and felt cramped up when I got my MacBook Pro and then the Mac Mini M4 Pro. But with DS6, I have it back. It is not just for toons.

Indeed, as it "looks better" than the basic viewport. 

Hi, I just thought I'd resurrect this old thread because it's the most recent one I could find that discusses this issue (in the most detail I've seen, and corroborating my own experience). This occasional disappearance of the character (with geographs in use) is something I've experienced consistently as a filament user. I do all my scene setup and posing in filament view. The disappearing character bug will happen after maybe a few hours of working in Daz and as previously mentioned, it does no harm as such, but requires the scene to be saved, Daz to be closed and opened again, then work can resume on the scene with the character visible again.

I run a 3 monitor 1080p setup via a GeForce RTX 3060 with the Daz main screen maximised on the centre screen and ancillary menus to the right and left on the two flanking monitors.

It would be less of an irritation if the Daz devs could crack the issue of how long it takes to flush the scene and close when exiting. It can still take my scenes a good few minutes to do so... It would be a great area for them to focus on rather than endlessly updating the Genesis series and making each one slower to work with and render (I'm happily sticking with G8 - 8.1 for the foreseeable future)... ;)

And I really applaud progress in other areas of speed-up, such as the speed with which a character can now have its pose zeroed, and poses saved and loaded, which are all way faster with recent updates.

Another great use for Filament is the setting up of a scene, preparing to test a character or product and the switching to Iray for the final render. Jay Versluis has a great tutorial on this. I loved it when I had only my Windows computers and felt cramped up when I got my MacBook Pro and then the Mac Mini M4 Pro. But with DS6, I have it back. It is not just for toons.

inquire said:

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

I think we did discuss this back in the old thread, and I did suggest checking the store out to see what Filament products there are and how they look when used properly.

As Richard said, Filament isn't designed to be a high-end rendering engine but one that's lightweight enough to be used for mobile and games and such. It's not as photorealistic as NVIDIA, it's slightly stylized. That said, it's capable of some excellent renders (as shown by some of the store products), it's extremely fast and lightweight, and as you're aware now has Filatoon; all this, for the type of work I do, makes it an excellent replacement for most of what 3Delight and OpenGL used to provide.  

The ever-helpful Leana provided links to threads for Trek-modeller extrordinaire rduda on Filatoon, both excellent theads:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/9193591/#Comment_9193591

And Mec4d supplies some excellent information on shaders for Filament here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/445567/filament-tutorials-shaders-lights/p1

inquire said:

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

Filament isn'ty intended as a full render engine, using Metal doesn't automatically change that.

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

inquire said:

Well, I really feel that we should have more updates from DAZ3D. They should tell us Whether or not, they are making progress and developing an Apple Silicon version of DS.

Also, at WWDC, There is an indication that Apple will help companies incorporate Apple Intelligence into their apps. It would be great if DAZ Made an Apple version of DS And included Apple Intelligence in it. It would be super if DAZ Included Apple Metal In it. Someone could write a translation version from Nvidia shaders to metal shaders. I would really like to experiment with that.
I think filament is a poor alternative to the nVidia Rendering.

Filament in DS 6 / 2025 is based on Metal on macOS.
The Viewport is also based on Metal on macOS.
 
Check profiler under Activity Monitor:
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/MacOS/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer
/private/var/db/oah/ea72064422e54f697b7431461ee92103a0179fc81d9631db29c3a82d0a133dba/ec3eef5a240e192d228a24d5e25638b901834cf1350d9d66c250b493a94b4b6d/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.aot
/System/Library/Extensions/AGXMetalG13X.bundle/Contents/Resources/ds.g13s
/System/Library/Extensions/AGXMetalG13X.bundle/Contents/MacOS/AGXMetalG13X
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/Resources/default.metallib
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/Resources/PixelConverter.metallib

Well, I really feel that we should have more updates from DAZ3D. They should tell us Whether or not, they are making progress and developing an Apple Silicon version of DS.

Also, at WWDC, There is an indication that Apple will help companies incorporate Apple Intelligence into their apps. It would be great if DAZ Made an Apple version of DS And included Apple Intelligence in it. It would be super if DAZ Included Apple Metal In it. Someone could write a translation version from Nvidia shaders to metal shaders. I would really like to experiment with that.
I think filament is a poor alternative to the nVidia Rendering.

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

 Thanks I didn't know Win11 had a built-in screen capture. I'll play with that and see if I can record my first video with it.

 

Yea, It's 2025 ALPHA, the most recent version of it.

Also using the most recent Nvidia driver.

Once a week I go through all my hadware drivers and make sure they are all updated.

Usually Tuesdays becasue thats when my favorite video game is down for maintenance, so I have a few hours to comb through  all the update websites and apps.

I only have the 3060 for graphics, no secondary cards of any kind

I don't get lag in the beta nor the release version either.

I don't leave USB devices plugged in when I'm not using them. i.e. headphones,  colormeter for Display color tuning, things like that.

I have Studio set to use only 14 of the 16 cores of my CPU so I can browse the web in Chrome or Firefox while I work on scenes in Studio.

I also have the CPU boxes unchecks in Render Settings>Hardware.

All 3 of them unchecked,

Hence why I have the sysmem option enabled in the Nvidia control panel.

If that is causing me a problem I've not noticed it yet and like I posted earlier, I have scenes that will consume over 11GB of the 12GB GPU VRAM and 80GB of system RAM. Sure they take a long time to render on my system, but according to GPUZ it's using the GPU for something.

Cool, looking forward to your video. I still don’t really understand what’s causing the lag, but if there really are cases where it doesn’t lag, then maybe adjusting some settings could fix the problem. Until Daz officially fixes it, I’ll keep experimenting and pushing the bar around. 

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

 Thanks I didn't know Win11 had a built-in screen capture. I'll play with that and see if I can record my first video with it.

Yea, It's 2025 ALPHA, the most recent version of it.

Also using the most recent Nvidia driver.

Once a week I go through all my hadware drivers and make sure they are all updated.

Usually Tuesdays becasue thats when my favorite video game is down for maintenance, so I have a few hours to comb through  all the update websites and apps.

I only have the 3060 for graphics, no secondary cards of any kind

I don't get lag in the beta nor the release version either.

I don't leave USB devices plugged in when I'm not using them. i.e. headphones,  colormeter for Display color tuning, things like that.

I have Studio set to use only 14 of the 16 cores of my CPU so I can browse the web in Chrome or Firefox while I work on scenes in Studio.

I also have the CPU boxes unchecks in Render Settings>Hardware.

All 3 of them unchecked,

Hence why I have the sysmem option enabled in the Nvidia control panel.

If that is causing me a problem I've not noticed it yet and like I posted earlier, I have scenes that will consume over 11GB of the 12GB GPU VRAM and 80GB of system RAM. Sure they take a long time to render on my system, but according to GPUZ it's using the GPU for something.

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

I have a viewport lag, but only with Iray as a preview.
Texture shaded and Filament work fine.

I think that's only an OpenGL limit 

and Filament 

iray and 3Delight should render all your spotlights 

Richard Haseltine said:

It is Iray causiing the issue, dos the scene load if you use Texture Shaded drawstyle (or Filament)? If so try saving each figure or prop set out into its own scene and see if they will load and render/preview in Iray on their own

Yes, the scene has 8 characters (Before I could render scenes with that number without any problem), and in the image there were only 2 characters appearing, when I tried to render, there was a problem, so I deleted the 6 other characters that do not appear in the scene, and left only the 2, and it rendered without problems, another scene of mine, with other characters, also has about 7 characters, had the same problem, when I go to render, the studio gives the same warning, it seems that this problem happens when there are many characters... Which I can't understand very well, since I've made scenes with even more characters before, and I didn't have this problem...

It is Iray causiing the issue, dos the scene load if you use Texture Shaded drawstyle (or Filament)? If so try saving each figure or prop set out into its own scene and see if they will load and render/preview in Iray on their own

barbult said:

The best thing I ever bought from bluejainte is BJ Camera Manager Plugin. I use it for every scene I ever create. I can't say that about any character. I highly recommend the camera manager.

FACTS! I use it all the time! I run my main viewport in texture shaded or filament, and my Aux in Iray, but just having the toggles (backtick and semi-colon) for both Aux VP and Iray preview has saved me so much time... And that's just 2 of the (for me most-used) options!

Leana said:

There are two big threads on FilaToon with lots of tips: 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704951/anime-toons-and-filatoon-shader-q-a/p1

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704931/filatoon-cell-shaded-rendering-with-filament/p1

Perfect!! Thank you!!!