Not all subscription software is bad, it really depends on the company. Having a subscription only model may mean more developers and more new features each year.

Plus the web site states that the personal license will be less than the current monthly charge so you may all be getting excited over nothing. What if it ends up being the equivalent of the cost of Netflix or Hulu?

Finally, they did give you plenty of advanced notice so if you're interested you can still upgrade the perpetual license as far as version 12. At one major version update that is 3 years before you have to switch since 10 is in 2020, 11 is in 2021, and 12 is in 2022. You won't have to worry about subscription only until version 13 in 2023. And there's nothing saying that you can't continue to use the latest version that you have.

 

I agree that the advanced notice is fair; in affect I get to purchase the full copy 3 times if i wish.

I disagree over the subscription software being not all bad; as a consumer, it's all bad.

... But they were committed to that as I'd bought 9.5; I would be entitled under the current system to purchase later versions at varying discounts; the notice just halts that at version 12 at the latest.

If it is the cost of Netflix or Hulu then a month when I need it is fine for those that don't mind.

Netflix and Hulu and similar services work on a subscription because of the products they offer. I still cancel them at times if I find myself not watching much - because my cash is better in my account.

If the alternative is stagnant software (Daz Studio, Hexagon, Bryce, Carrera) then I don't mind paying a reasonable fee. When was the last time we got any major new features for any of the mentioned software packages from Daz? There are plenty of features that I would love to see but have little hope of ever seeing them. If the software is stagnant and requires a monthly subscription then yes, I would be inclined to go elsewhere. For the time being I will reserve judgement until I see what we get between now and 2023.

dForce Hair, last year? Animation enhancements (though they are seriously buggy with respect to saved scenes right now)? The difference between 4.12 and 4.5, the first official release, are enormous - hardly stagnation just because the leading number hasn't changed for some years.

 

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on the stagnant part. Sorry. And I don't care what the version number is as long as they're continuing to innovate and push the software forward.

Stagnant? Would not agree with that...at all.

Myself, joined Daz Feb 2019.
In that time:

- implement RTX ( and reecently NvLink & MemoryPooling)
- SBH
- work behind the scenes on Maya plugin
- drop to CPU issues (OPtix etc)- trying to deal with that & Iray being a 3rd Party product
- dForce updates continual in background
- Overhaul animation ongoing
- shader redesign (bricks) in background to match Nvidia Iray latest (based on changelog)
- Now rumors of Google Filament for RT
- QT updates
- new shopping cart coming
- DazCentral
- and more if you follow changelog details

At worst, Daz seems to be implenting too much new stuff at same time with too many bugs leading to less than Optimal user experiences.
For me, for example, i don't use the published SBH hair, despite liking many of the styles, cos they aren't optimized to work with many actor scenes.  And that's with a better PC system.  But that's my usage, and will likely be addressed sometime in future.

But implementing all that stuff takes lots of time.
And they are funding that out of store receipts, in addition to paying the content artists and all the staff incolved with store products, and support.

Maya or MD you are paying lump sum for product only.  And they want update fees.

On the Internet see this daily trend, of what appears to be many users disregarding all the stuff that is done in background, complex stuff that takes lots of time and iterations, and some users focus on specifics wants instead.  And the rest doesn't count at all.  Or that's how it appears to me.

Obviously those quad GPU workstations that you see occasionally do this somehow!  Just looked up a 1600W Power supply, it indicates a 16 amp power draw.  That may vary slightly from model to model, but it's a ballpark at least.  Might burn my house down though!

Things that make you go hmmm...

Is that a USA thing?  I run 4 GPU's and everything else of a single 1600w PSU (admittedly through a UPS, but still)

It's more of an older house thing.  Theoretically I have a 20 amp circuit or two to work with, but the wiring is older, plus other things are on those circuits as well...  Tearing the older wiring out would require an extensive remodel, and yeah I'm not doing that...

Possibly I could run a new power drop (I know my way around such things electrician wise).  The issue is finding parts for such an old breaker box, and whether I want to risk stressing the main any further... sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

I have a 50 year old USA house, just before the national building codes changed that would of made this house be in such better shape 50 years later, and I don't even have but 3 3 prong grounded electrical outlets in the entire house and for some rooms I actually have to cut power to the entire house to work on a circuit in that room (not that I plan on doing more than minimal upgrades on a house that the county PVA is ever going to rate higher than a C from it's current D+). The house my dad had built in 1972 (apparently in those days a 4 bedroom split level would cost you $24K and change then) still looks new while the used house I bought built just 2 years earlier looks like it was build 100 years ago instead so those building code and building material changes were very important. Also, much like desktop PCs nowadays, houses started being built largely prefab sections put together on site which make a use difference in durability and quality.

Lucky the desktop I build last winter and the new laptop I was given are using 7 nm/12 nm CPU circuits/GPU circuits and so power usage isn't even what a single old fashion 1500W infrared filament space heater would use for the two together. I did have to buy 2 pong to 3 prong plug adaptors until I get around to replacing all the electrical outlets in this house with GFI electrical outlets (built-in circuit breaker extention cords are essentionally the same thing if you want to save work and messing with electrical wiring). I'd call a professional electrictician to do the job but they've been all put on government contracts to sit around all day and drink coffee at pay rates so abnormally high no normal person can scrape up enough cash to get them out of their chairs to even answer their business phones. That's a lot of cash that they won't even answer their phones or return calls. Plumbers around here are the same way. I had to call every plumbing business in town before I convinced one to come out here for "only $800 for 4 hours work". 

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

It's free to use(Creative Commons License), they just want you to give them credit if you do use it.

It is not Creative Commons. It's something called the AWS Customer Agreement and the Lumberyard Service Terms.

I clicked on the other link after posting previously and that page does specify :

License:
Creative Commons CC-BY 4.0

Oh, sorry, I was talking about Lumberyard.

Oh, Lumberyard as opposed to the pub image? OK. I was initially talking about the pub.

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

It's free to use(Creative Commons License), they just want you to give them credit if you do use it.

It is not Creative Commons. It's something called the AWS Customer Agreement and the Lumberyard Service Terms.

I clicked on the other link after posting previously and that page does specify :

License:
Creative Commons CC-BY 4.0

Oh, sorry, I was talking about Lumberyard.

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

It's free to use(Creative Commons License), they just want you to give them credit if you do use it.

It is not Creative Commons. It's something called the AWS Customer Agreement and the Lumberyard Service Terms.

I clicked on the other link after posting previously and that page does specify :

License:
Creative Commons CC-BY 4.0

Looking at the renders on that page I get more of a 3Delight feeling than anything approaching IRay.

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

It's free to use(Creative Commons License), they just want you to give them credit if you do use it.

It is not Creative Commons. It's something called the AWS Customer Agreement and the Lumberyard Service Terms.

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

It's free to use(Creative Commons License), they just want you to give them credit if you do use it.

Is it odd that the same pub corner scene appears on both the Amazon and the Google Filament pages?

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

https://github.com/google/filament/releases

La parte in cui vedo l'hardware e il software migliorare, mese dopo mese, è una delle mie preferite di questa attività!

Dove? (ಠ_ಠ)

Lo stesso prodotto di cui parlavamo prima è una grande innovazione.

Poi dicevi che Iray Catalizer è inutile per via degli Strand Hair...che fino a poco fa non c'erano.

E dai un'occhiata qua: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1

Chissà se si realizzerà, ma si parla di bridge sostanzialmente con qualsiasi programma.

E che dire delle RTX? E dei miglioramenti prestazionali apportati da Iray 2019?

E dell'hardware che anno dopo anno ci regala prestazioni da capogiro, che legge di Moore scansati?

Per non parlare di plugin come Mesh Grabber e Content Manager, che hanno rivoluzionato tutto.

Boh, queste e mille altre son le innovazioni che ho visto nel relativamente recente tempo in cui sono arrivato, direi niente male :)

Che bello essere giovani.

Comunque, parlando di GPU, mi hanno consigliarto una GTX 1650 Super, può valere qualcosa?

Non è che sia male, certamente un universo avanti alla GTX 660 (se ricordo bene) che stai usando ora, però è abbastanza entry-level.

Qual è la sua funzione? Dimenticati animazioni fotorealistiche, e anche per i render può stare stretta. Ha solo 4GB di VRAM.

Secondo me il vantaggio nell'avere una RTX c'è: gli RT core sono stati fatti per noi sostanzialmente (okay, in realtà per i gamer della prossima generazione, ma intanto li usiamo solo noi), e anche i tensor core trovano qualche utilizzo.
Pertanto, secondo me il minimo che ha senso prendere per lavoro è una RTX 2060 Super (detto da uno che è costretto a usare una 2060 liscia adesso). Ha 8GB di VRAM.

Qui trovi un thread con test fatti su Daz Studio: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking/p1#Section 3.1

Non sono molti, e non ci sono tutte le GPU, quindi io consulto sempre i benchmark su Octane, che sono ben proporzionali a quanto serve a noi: https://www.cgdirector.com/octanebench-benchmark-results/

Però da te mi aspetterei  di aspettare: sono forti i rumor su un'imminente uscita delle Nvidia Ampere, che potrebbero apportare miglioramenti dal 50 a fino addirittura il 90%, nella stessa fascia di prezzo, per compiti ray-tracing relati.
D'altronde siamo solo all'inizio dell'era del ray tracing, ha senso che ci sia un tale boost prestazionale in soli 2 anni, considerando anche la competizione AMD Navi.

Si parla di settembre.
Infatti, stanno riducendo la produzione dei vecchi modelli della fascia alta, perché TMSC ha una disponibilità limitata, e fra poco dovrebbero iniziare una produzione di massa per il lancio.

Per quanto mi riguarda, vedo molto interessante la RTX 3080: dovrebbe andare un 20% meglio della 2080 Ti, con 10GB di VRAM.
Il mio sistema è già pronto per ospitare due GPU (ho fatto aggiornamenti hardware di recente), quindi la assocerò alla 2070 Super che ho all'università...quando in periodo "virologicamente" tranquillo riuscirò a metterci le mani, e venderò questa 2060.

La parte in cui vedo l'hardware e il software migliorare, mese dopo mese, è una delle mie preferite di questa attività!

Dove? (ಠ_ಠ)

Lo stesso prodotto di cui parlavamo prima è una grande innovazione.

Poi dicevi che Iray Catalizer è inutile per via degli Strand Hair...che fino a poco fa non c'erano.

E dai un'occhiata qua: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1

Chissà se si realizzerà, ma si parla di bridge sostanzialmente con qualsiasi programma.

E che dire delle RTX? E dei miglioramenti prestazionali apportati da Iray 2019?

E dell'hardware che anno dopo anno ci regala prestazioni da capogiro, che legge di Moore scansati?

Per non parlare di plugin come Mesh Grabber e Content Manager, che hanno rivoluzionato tutto.

Boh, queste e mille altre son le innovazioni che ho visto nel relativamente recente tempo in cui sono arrivato, direi niente male :)

Che bello essere giovani.

Comunque, parlando di GPU, mi hanno consigliarto una GTX 1650 Super, può valere qualcosa?

I have a question for you all.  When I looking for more information on Filament. I found this page off github and when you scroll down this page on this link to view the sample images of https://awesomeopensource.com/project/google/filament

 I have to ask you all.. Do you think  some of those scenes were using daz models in some of  the images posted there? I am pretty sure the first one is stonemasons streets of old London .  I think all the renders looks great if they look like that real time for animation development that is even better I would think.  I look forward to seeing Filament added to daz as a render engine I think it would be positive for people who like to animate in daz.

edited for spelling

I think the page is identical to the Google github page and, indeed, at the top of the Daz/Filament page it says "forked from google/filament". But it is interesting that Daz have forked the code because that suggests to me that they are working on an implementation. Can't come fast enough for me - a whole new phase of DAZ Studio would open up with real-time rendering. I hope they refine the animation timeline too.

Just one word of caution though - I notice there are no images of people. Human skin shaders are a must.

I have a question for you all.  When I looking for more information on Filament. I found this page off github and when you scroll down this page on this link to view the sample images of https://awesomeopensource.com/project/google/filament

 I have to ask you all.. Do you think  some of those scenes were using daz models in some of  the images posted there? I am pretty sure the first one is stonemasons streets of old London .  I think all the renders looks great if they look like that real time for animation development that is even better I would think.  I look forward to seeing Filament added to daz as a render engine I think it would be positive for people who like to animate in daz.

edited for spelling

I think the page is identical to the Google github page and, indeed, at the top of the Daz/Filament page it says "forked from google/filament". But it is interesting that Daz have forked the code because that suggests to me that they are working on an implementation. Can't come fast enough for me - a whole new phase of DAZ Studio would open up with real-time rendering. I hope they refine the animation timeline too.

Just one word of caution though - I notice there are no images of people. Human skin shaders are a must.

yes I think an addition of some kind of Real time rendering would be awesome certainly speed up animation Pre-rendering set ups. Ive always like the looks of Blender Cycles renders. But for me Blender UI is just to hard to grasp. . I like the Iray real time preview when building sets or setting up lighting  & using it for still renders in Daz. but its just not efficient enough in speed to be worth anything for animation use especially in in creating game cycle animation . Real time rendering is kind of a must have. . I agree with you I look forward to seeing filiment implemented. Weather or not its going to be useful will depend on how is is set up f to use.

I'll keep a open mind and hope for the best I reckon.

It'd be nice if we could just get actual soft body dynamics. 

I think I've been asking for that since I started using DAZ Studio 15 years ago. ;) Of course, so have many others. I guess DAZ have always considered the software as primarily used for still images which is why animation has been something of a half-hearted effort and movement physics completely ignored. Things might be changing though if they get into real-time rendering with Google Filament and continue to work on the timeline. I just don't think that dForce is up to the job of being the soft body physics engine but then I know nothing ablut the technicalities.

I have a question for you all.  When I looking for more information on Filament. I found this page off github and when you scroll down this page on this link to view the sample images of https://awesomeopensource.com/project/google/filament

 I have to ask you all.. Do you think  some of those scenes were using daz models in some of  the images posted there? I am pretty sure the first one is stonemasons streets of old London .  I think all the renders looks great if they look like that real time for animation development that is even better I would think.  I look forward to seeing Filament added to daz as a render engine I think it would be positive for people who like to animate in daz.

edited for spelling

I think the page is identical to the Google github page and, indeed, at the top of the Daz/Filament page it says "forked from google/filament". But it is interesting that Daz have forked the code because that suggests to me that they are working on an implementation. Can't come fast enough for me - a whole new phase of DAZ Studio would open up with real-time rendering. I hope they refine the animation timeline too.

Just one word of caution though - I notice there are no images of people. Human skin shaders are a must.

La parte in cui vedo l'hardware e il software migliorare, mese dopo mese, è una delle mie preferite di questa attività!

Dove? (ಠ_ಠ)

Lo stesso prodotto di cui parlavamo prima è una grande innovazione.

Poi dicevi che Iray Catalizer è inutile per via degli Strand Hair...che fino a poco fa non c'erano.

E dai un'occhiata qua: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1

Chissà se si realizzerà, ma si parla di bridge sostanzialmente con qualsiasi programma.

E che dire delle RTX? E dei miglioramenti prestazionali apportati da Iray 2019?

E dell'hardware che anno dopo anno ci regala prestazioni da capogiro, che legge di Moore scansati?

Per non parlare di plugin come Mesh Grabber e Content Manager, che hanno rivoluzionato tutto.

Boh, queste e mille altre son le innovazioni che ho visto nel relativamente recente tempo in cui sono arrivato, direi niente male :)

I have a question for you all.  When I looking for more information on Filament. I found this page off github and when you scroll down this page on this link to view the sample images of https://awesomeopensource.com/project/google/filament

 I have to ask you all.. Do you think  some of those scenes were using daz models in some of  the images posted there? I am pretty sure the first one is stonemasons streets of old London .  I think all the renders looks great if they look like that real time for animation development that is even better I would think.  I look forward to seeing Filament added to daz as a render engine I think it would be positive for people who like to animate in daz.

edited for spelling

From another thread, this might be interesting: https://github.com/daz3d

There is a project called DazToBlender and a filament project.

Any news about this topic?

I've found this page: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1

It talks about Android and iOS too.

But will it be just a preview engine, or will we be able to render with it?

Ohhh, interesting! I wonder if that really is their official Github account? Looks like they also created projects (less than 24 hours ago) for a bunch of "bridges" for Unity, Unreal, Blender, etc.

Any news about this topic?

I've found this page: https://github.com/daz3d/filament?files=1

It talks about Android and iOS too.

But will it be just a preview engine, or will we be able to render with it?

As for this subject I was told by Richard in another discussion that daz is working on a real time engine based on google filament. That's not eevee but should be close. As for iray interactive that's already implemented I find it quite low quality for pbr rendering. But it could be fine for toons.

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_12_1_118

@JClave As for a eevee implementation of the uber shader, I got some strong limitations in eevee as for volumes and refraction that don't allow to make good daz materials. So I guess the same would apply for the uber shader. Especially for skins the uber shader uses volumetrics and eevee is limited to one volume per object in a bounded box. So volumes in eevee are intended more for scene "atmospheric effects" than for figures.

What I mean is if you want to work with eevee then some materials can't be translated from the uber shader, they have to be "rebuilt" from scratch that's what the diffeomorphic plugin is trying to do when fitting the uber shader skin to eevee sss. With a low degree of success of course.

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/render/eevee/limitations.html

from eevee limitations: "Object volume shaders will affect the whole bounding box of the object. The shape of the volume must be adjusted using procedural texturing inside the shader."

@wolf359 @jcade

While it is true that the volumetric skin in cycles doesn't render faster than iray. It is also true that in cycles you can limit the ray bounces to get a good skin approximation. Also the denoiser in cycles is much better and faster. So overall cycles is faster than iray even for volumetric skins there's no match.

Of course cycles can't compete with eevee as for speed. But due to eevee limitations especially for refraction and volumes, you have to fix some materials yourself since it's not possible to translate them from the uber shader.

Maybe DAZ will figure out how to implement Google Filament which looks like it might be a real-time render option similar to Eevee. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how to get my scenes into Blender and use Eevee. There is a lot to learn just to be able to navigate around Blender and I'm hoping to become as familiar with it as I am with DAZ Studio slightly before Hell becomes that frozen wasteland.

The point about Eevee not looking the same as IRay - well of course not. A render that takes a few seconds is never going to look as good as an Iray render after severl hours. I believe the point is that for some purposes, that level of detail and quality is not required - such as with an image sequence for an animation/video. That's what I'm hoping to be able to do with it anyhow because rendering an animation image sequence in IRay may take as long as waiting for DAZ to adopt Eevee.