@Divamakeup "I know there is another way to fix it, but I don't know how."

I believe you should be able to dial the offending morph out then resave G3F base. I would be inclined to uninstall both the offending morph/character and G3F, the reinstall G3F base and go from there.

@ Masterstroke

There are two ways to create ERC dependencies, one is to use the ERC-Freeze action fome the right-click menu, the other is to have the Parameters and the Property Hierarchy pane opened side by side then drag&drop the desired Property from the Parameters pane to the Property Hierarchy pane into the Sub-Components tree. There you have two categories 1st Stage (Add/Substract) and 2nd Stage (Multiply/Divide).

In your custom pose control "close both eyes.dsf" file - the line { "op" : "mult" } indicates that Multiply is used.

I think the easiest way to setup your pose control would be looking something like this in the Property Hierarchy pane:

Property: close both eyes

• Sub-Components: 1st Stage (Add/Substract)
• eCTRLEyesClosed (Eyes Closed)
• Eyelid smooth

But why making an alternative Pose Control? There is allready a Eyes Closed (eCTRLEyesClosed). It sounds more like you want to create an correction morph for a character like SexyRoxy.

These correction morphs are called Morph Controlled Morphs [MCM].

Here I have an example of the "MCMTeenJosie8EyesClosedR"

See the attached screenshots - BTW you can quickly jump to a Property by the right-click menu entries Show in Property Hierarchy / Show in Prarameters in both panes.

The character Master Controller CTRLTeenJosie8 includes ERC[Add]: FHMTeenJosie8Head that includes ERC[Multiply]: MCMTeenJosie8EyesClosedR and L.

With this dependencies chain the value of the expression controller Property eCTRLEyesClosed will drive the value of MCMTeenJosie8EyesClosedR and L only if the character controller Property CTRLTeenJosie8 or at least FHMTeenJosie8Head is set to something other than zero and will be multiplied by its value.

This will make shure the closed eyes will look correct and the eyelids will match even with the head shape that alters the shape of the eyelids.

Sounds complicated - it is - but this is how its meant to work.

You can have a look at my post related to ERC-Freeze here:

TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis/G2F/G2M/G3M/G3M Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.6 by RKane_1

This is me pounding my head on the keyboard. Been trying for weeks now in my free time to do a particular celebrity morph for my own personal use and he is being so elusive. UGH!  I finally got the body the way I want to see it (not exact but good for me). The face, on the other hand ... 

Maybe it's time to look at taking a break again and try something else for a while.

Suggestions?

I sometimes find that putting the project I am working on away for a bit and trying different things sometimes makes me get a better feel in the long run.  It's a learning process.  You get a feel for what may and may not work.  As an aside, MS Paint may not work for what you are wanting to achieve.   

This appears to be a very very common issue in which other morphs get somehow saved to the base genesis morph. 

I have the same issue with Genesis 3 Females. I had to hunt down all the morphs that where effecting it (in the parameters tab) and dial them all out to zero, then I made a shape morph with those morphs dialled out. So now every time I load G3F I use that shape morph to dial out the other morphs. I know there is another way to fix it, but I don't know how. 

Could be you have a specific morph that is always on. It happens often with freebies, check the hidden section also.

You are right, I just figured it out, which morph. I didn't realize the Kaitana character I bought does this. I thought the chubby cheeks looked familiar. lol

That's weird that it was dialed in for g3 female by default. I will have to send a message to the creator of that character if that's the case. weird.

Thank you FSMC for the help.

Could be you have a specific morph that is always on. It happens often with freebies, check the hidden section also.

Okay, a question... probably there's a real easy solution, but I'm a newb, so...

After using a primitive to shove a part of some clothing around I would like to add the result to the piece of clothing as a morph, so I could "dial it in" when needed. Is there a way to do it? And if there is, is there also a simple, newbie understandable, explanation of "how to do that"?

Hide everything but the clothing, set the clothing to base resolution if it has SubD applied  (Mesh Resolution in the Parametrs pane), then export as OBJ (noting the export preset used0. Then clear the dForce simulation (button in Simulation Settings), with the to-be-morphed item selected Edit>Figure>Morph Loader Pro, click the Select fiels and pick the exported OBJ, make sure the preset matches the ne from exporting, if it's fitted clothing with a pose applied click the triangle by the OBJ name, find Reverse Deformations, right-click on No and set it to Yes, click Accept.

My forum profile picture is us (me and Todd) taken somewhere in Serbia ;) I've only changed it because people wanted to see humans behind the machine.

Usually everywhere I post art it's my girl Faith, by the name Faith Fawkes with one of my infamous first Octane renders (I do better these days) several years ago, with a kitty hat and a cigarette. She started pretty much as the digital projection of me back on Genesis first generation, by mixing Aiko5 and some morphs by the looks of pictures of myself until I learned how to morph in Blender and make my own textures, and later through Gen2 and Gen3 and nowadays Gen8 she shed off her Aiko base and became more of a "normal" look girl, somewhat different and less toony than her first iterations. She got the last name Fawkes by Guido/Guy Fawkes as my favorite line is always "You can call me V" since nobody in their sane mind can pronounce my name right (it's Verica, diminutive of the name Vera which translates to Faith). Most of my renders, unless strictly certain character themed, are just Faith doing things, usually contemporary themes and clothes, no nudes (ever) and she is always blonde. She's been my alias for over 4 years now and probably for the good chunk of forseeable future :)

As a balance Todd has a digital girl named Briana Baxter, adventurist and troublemaker, which was quiet a conversation starter when we first met as both girls by now became 3D personalities and take good lead in both of ours art. They're both even shown in my Fabric Factory main promo image here in the store although we rarely render each others girls, lol.

 

 

I've always liked your smoking girl very much

Okay, a question... probably there's a real easy solution, but I'm a newb, so...

After using a primitive to shove a part of some clothing around I would like to add the result to the piece of clothing as a morph, so I could "dial it in" when needed. Is there a way to do it? And if there is, is there also a simple, newbie understandable, explanation of "how to do that"?

I like the Decimator in Poser better. Also the FBX exporter better in Poser. You can't export DAZ format models from Poser though you can if you transfer them over to Poser in Poser format. That works with Genesis 2 & prior.

Some models (the DAZ Decimator) it can get down to 5% and the models look decent and other models you'll have trouble dropping down to less than 40%. Put those are all old DAZ Store models though.  

Hey Richard, maybe you're able to read the minds? I've done what you say and I found just those differences in a t-shirt I modeled fast in MD just to try. We are on the right way. The morphed one has 10 vertex more than base one. I discovered, also, that using ZBrush Zremesher with several settings I get the same poly counts as DS geometry.Yesterday I followed the procedure and I got the dial to morph from base to morphed FBM cloth! You know the funny thing? I don't remember the steps! (usual for me). So I start with this workflow again using my vocal recorder. You think, worked perfectly as you told! Anyway I go ahead following what you saying and I keep you update. Could be useful for anyone else strumble on the same question also.

I've got a question for whoever wants to give an opinion on this matter.

I've been involved in 3d stuff for a very long time. Mostly as a hobby and a side job, but I hadn't done any human related work till I started messing around with Daz Studio about a year ago. From that moment I've been a bit obsessed, like many others, with skin shading and mostly what makes an image appear like a real photo. Something that's so simple with objects now that we have lots of different Global Illumination and Unbiased render engines, always seems to have something off when it comes to simulating a human character, as we all know.

I've been reading tons of articles, endless forum threads, posts, tutorials... all of them about creating the perfect skin (and hair, eyes... everything). All of them go on and on about technical stuff on the lights, the behaviour of all the different layers of the skin and a huge list of everything you need to do to make your character look alive and realistic. Most threads have high res pictures showing incredibly detailed renders and explaining how you can't have your photo-real look without:

- A good lighting setup.

- The allmighty displacement map. Some people swear by this one.

- 357 different maps for all the different layers of the skin. Dermal, subdermal, blood vessels, coating, bump, translucency, reflectance, glossy roughness, sss... all of them absolutely essential if you don't want to fail miserably.

- Imperfections. Moles, creases, freckles, marks, pores... if you don't have them, it looks too perfect and reeks of CGI.

- A proper, natural pose and expression.

...and on and on. But now I've got a question:

If I need a proper lighting setup, bump, coating, gloss... how is that my eyes can look at a badly lit, low res, screen cap from a heavily compressed phone video showing a flat face with a vacant expression and not doubt for a second that I'm looking at a real person?

Or if I need all the fine detail, the displacement, the imperfections and all that, how is that I can see a high res photo of a model with heavy makeup and photoshop work on top to the point where I can see no pores, no creases, no moles, no freckles, again with the kind of vacant, lifeless expression that most models seem to love... and still be 100% sure that this woman is human and was alive at the moment they took that picture?

And how is that I can take 99% of the best Daz Studio renders DeviantArt has to offer, no matter the resolution, distance to the subject, amazingly detailed maps, lighting conditions, render engine (iRay, Octane or Reality), extra photoshop work... after all these years and having literally thousands of people working hard to make their renders look as realistic as possible, I can't find a single one that manages to fool my eye and makes me think I could be looking at a real person (I'm specifically leaving apart examples rendered in Arnold. I’m only talking about Daz Studio).

Note: Don't get me wrong. I'm only talking about photorealism. No one denies the hard work and the artistic value of the images I'm talking about.

Now, if we don't really need to see all the details. If we don't need the perfect lighting setup. If we don't need to see natural expressions or the skin shining in a certain way to tell apart real people from a render, then what's the key? What's the secret ingredient that's missing?

I'm asking because I'm far from sure, although I'd say my highest bet has something to do with the eyes.

What do you think?

This thread seems to have lost its way. The original post from “Ooze3d” was about how people keep offering all of these technical reasons for lack of realistic renders; posts heavy on suggestions about proper lighting, facial expression, and whatnot. And that post also noted that on the Snapchat style media, people post one picture after another with terrible lighting, little to no facial expression, and no thought given to composition, yet no one questions whether they are real people.

And I’ve noticed this thread, which could have been a refreshing change to the norm, seems to have degenerated into yet another thread where a few post images to show off their work and a few get criticized on technical details about their images to no avail. It’s like everyone has forgotten the valid points in the original post.

I am no expert on rendering with this software. I often use the default settings on everything. And I’m always looking for some product that makes everything easier so I don’t have to figure out why there are so many glossy settings or what a top coat or metallic flakes has to do with a woman’s skin. And I don’t share my renders much because, while they are good enough for me, I’m certain they would not be good enough in the eyes of people in these forums. But I do have a personal goal for very convincing, realistic images.

However, in the spirit of the original post, I would like to offer what I’ve observed from my limited viewpoint. And it isn’t much.

I’ve come to the conclusion that, as far as software goes, the best tool for realistic renders seems to be Reality/Luxrender.  Just based on such pictures as the scantily clad black man and the character from Beauty and the Beast posted by “Hellboy Soto” some time ago. And the picture of the woman by the water fountain in this thread where everybody was complaining about her toes. And a few other pictures, I think. It seems like LuxRender has produced more realistic humanoid images than anything I’ve seen from Firefly, Superfly, 3Delight, or even the newer Iray.

And all software aside, it seems like one of the biggest factors for producing a realistic image seems to be just not telling people it’s fake.

Also, it seems like enough realistic things in an image help to mask or distract from anything not so realistic. Like the person saying FaceGen is so great. After applying the FaceGen texture and morph, it amounts to not much more than a photoshopped version of the original. There are enough elements from an actual photograph to distract from the DAZ things.

Everybody seems to think the eyes are a big deal. Even my mystic father, who says he can see into people’s soul, seems to think something is different about the CG eyes. He said my character’s eyes seemed dark. But when I looked at the eyes of real people’s photographs, some of them seemed to have the same dark eyes. I don’t know what he sees that I don’t.

I’m not going to reinstall Reality or Poser until they come out with something newer than Iray. So Iray it is. But seriously, my plan going forward is going to be to always use ray tracers, put glasses on my characters to distract from the eyes, and just not mention that they’re created with DAZ Studio. I also have some comments about other things in this thread but this post is much longer and snippy than I wanted it to be already.

This is me pounding my head on the keyboard. Been trying for weeks now in my free time to do a particular celebrity morph for my own personal use and he is being so elusive. UGH!  I finally got the body the way I want to see it (not exact but good for me). The face, on the other hand ... 

Maybe it's time to look at taking a break again and try something else for a while.

Suggestions?

Almost all clothes are infinitely thin because it's INCREDIBLY hard to keep pokethrough from happening on clothing with thickness. Even conforming outfits; you'd need JCMs and MCMs for dozens of morphs and even then you'd probably miss a bunch. And it's even harder with dForce.

I mean, I can understand not being happy with that, but it just seems a little odd to comment on one particular outfit for it.

 

actually I made an interesting observation on this matter

the simple outfits I remeshed in Zbrush that I had created a skin for actually behave much better in Dforce and VWD than the single poly layered ones, and being two sided one can create linings etc

they were not so easy to rig and morph but drape beautifully 

They are not the same, they all include different items. But all the "character 8" shapes are based on the same mesh (G8F) and will share some assets, like the anatomical elements.

The point of those characters is to give you a starting point when creating a given type of character, that you can use in combination to other shapes or morphs for G8F.

You may be able to create a similar shape using morphs packs or custom morphing in a modelling program, but probably not the exact same as those characters are custom sculpts. And you wouldn't have the skin texture, which is included only with the character.

Another advantage of using the "character 8" morph as part of your own character is that if the shape is very different from the base mesh it usually will include corrective morphs to help with posing. And it can also help to get clothes to fit correctly: many clothes have custom fit morphs for those characters, so it would fit better than if you recreated a similar shape yourself.

If you want to have the anatomical elements for G8F then you need to buy one of the adult pro bundles, as this is the only way to get them. Choose the bundle you like best and which includes items you're most likely to use. Once you have them, they'll work with other shapes too.

Then you can look at other add-ons to have different kind of characters, but those will not necessarily be pro bundles. For example if you bought Aiko 8 pro bundle and want to have a dark-skinned character with her in the scene, then you will need a character with a dark skin: it could be Monique 8 - either only the shape, or the starter or pro bundle if the other items in the bundle are useful to you - or another dark-skinned character made for Genesis 8 female. You'll probably also want some hair different from the ones included with Aiko bundle: again, those included in Monique bundle could fit what you want, but any hair made for G8F is an option.

You could test exporting two different versions of the cloth from MD and see how they look - I suspect that the difference will be immediately apparent from the fiel size as more polygons are added around the chest. My suggestion, if that is the case, would be to opena  copy of the exported OBJ in ZBrush or C4D and (using tools that move the vertices but don't add or remove them) adjust it to fi the moprhed shape, then save that with the morph name.

How do you have it set up in the property hierarchy?

It is not set up there, for it is not saved, although it should be. I just did, what usually works: Close both eyes 100% > ERC freeze > select Eyelids smooth > accept > Save morph assets > select close both eyes > giving folder path> click accept. Allways works, except this time. The correct dsf file is written in the right place, but it does not show up in DS. It is not listed in the property hirachy either. So my question is: Are vendors able to forbid, that their morphs are being used in a ERC hirachy?

Are you ending up with two ERC relations? Find the master slider in the property Hierarchy (for which you don't need to have saved) and look to see what you get.

I will start with the Wise Wizard outfit 

it loads fine rigged after conversion to general weights in Carrara and fits Misty's beta character

but it is a dforce garment, no movement bones or morphs

I suggest dforce-ing  few in DAZ studio first to export as morph targets

also the sleeves are not riggedto the arms so a parented target helper and tracking may be useful for each bone

Thank you for your reply Murgatroyd.

I am still a bit confused about the bundles.
If they are all the same (expect for Sakura and Teen Josie), does that mean that they have all the same base mesh with different presets?

If spent enough time tweaking the base settings, could I get the same exact result regardless if I use Victoria instead of Aiko or Monique? or does Aiko only allow the user to create Asian character just like Victoria only seems to allow you to create Caucasian characters and Monique only seems to allow you to create African characters ?

If I want to create a scene where two characters from different nationalities are shaking hands, do I need to buy two pro-bundles (e.g. Monique and Aiko) or can I reach the same physical results with a single bundle?

Sorry for the extra questions that popped in my mind in the meantime.

Thanks again.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, thanks a lot for the two morph links. They both seem great!
and it's good news that there is always the possibility to learn how to make my own modeling (with the appropriate program of choice) in the future when I gain more skills, experience and confidence.

How do you have it set up in the property hierarchy?

It is not set up there, for it is not saved, although it should be. I just did, what usually works: Close both eyes 100% > ERC freeze > select Eyelids smooth > accept > Save morph assets > select close both eyes > giving folder path> click accept. Allways works, except this time. The correct dsf file is written in the right place, but it does not show up in DS. It is not listed in the property hirachy either. So my question is: Are vendors able to forbid, that their morphs are being used in a ERC hirachy?