This is a discussion on what the Filament draw style is and what its uses are.

I noticed in the new Daz update there is a filament draw style now.

It is better than texture shaded and not as detailed as iray..

I am just wondering what its actual use is?

It is nice that it shows things that texture shaded draw style does not, like the HDRI sky.

I would really like to understand this more and what are the uses of the Filament packages sold in the store?

It seems that adding them would just slow down the view?

And how are they added? What do they actually do? Do they make a Filament view seem more real?

I am very confused about this. Things seem washed out in the Filament view and if I adjust the ISO or exposure value in tone mapping it will throw off my Iray render.

Can someone please explain the uses and purpose of this Filament draw style?

Thanks

Filament is an option, does not replace iRay because, like 3Delight and even OpenGL render engines, are available in DS

What kind of hardware does Filament require?  Anything more powerful that what Iray takes?

Requires Windows (currently), 64-bit, OpenGL > 4.1

But we don't have it the way it is used in other apps .. only a simple preview  , if the Filament in D|S had the all functions and own shaders active , it would be really great tool for many Artists .. it works with PBR values , but render out 20% of what it should originally .. You expected to get new Iphone for christmas and you got just the box .. that's the difference 

It is still very useful for my workflows and you can see enviorment map and pose your stuff better without running Cudas and iray , or make some concept art .. 

 

In a nutshell, Filament was developed primarily for the Android and is a to Gaming what paint is to photoshop. Filament is for apps that don't want the huge overhead that a 3D game render engine like Unity has.

What kind of hardware does Filament require?  Anything more powerful that what Iray takes?

Follow the PBR and you get nice result for most surfaces , there is no skin settings for this ,volumetric shader not working so unless you want your skin to looks like Poser4 ..be my guest !

I believe that V4 and M4 may profit of the Filament a lot, since the skin maps has baked light and shadows in it 

ah and there is a new product for Filament .. back to Poser4 skin , the beautiful and shiny .. 

I am seriously tried already ... people can't follow a simple instructions , yet they need pdf for making Poser4 skin , it is a plastic a default set in Daz Studio , you don't need to do anything 

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Happy for you ! stick with the stuff you are best on !  you don't need to learn anything new to use Filament , it do the same as iray just like preview mode , kinda I am using in my texturing programs to create PBR shaders .. nut full renderer .. and a lot of limitations .. that is not a switch ! that is a little backwards option ..like Draw mode for Iray but much less than that

I just installed Daz Studio 4.14 and I am very happy to be able to use my RTX 3080 card, finally but what is going on with that filament renderer?

I watched a tutorial on youtube and the skin and all the rest of it is very underwhelming, to say the least.

I will stick to Nvidia for the time being until everything is functional in the filament.

3DL textures play better with Filament than Iray ones - this scene is sort of hybrid. Benita's skin is Iray, but the light, the hair and eye textures and the background are all 3DL.

 

That's also great news.  I mean for me personally since as aforementioned by me, my PC just won't render Iray.  I would love to 3DL and Iray shaders be compatible with each other once a lighting node is added into the scene.  Some shaders are ones I cannot live without, like pWtoon.  Others, I would love to try, like OsoToon shaders for Iray.  

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

Filament doesn't use Iray or 3delight shaders as such, though I think Daz has doen work - as they did with Iray - to try to make sensible conversions of the standard shader(s)

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

You can mix, yes, but as in Iray itself there will be conversion rather than a diect implementation of the different shaders.

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Thank you, Richard!  I know it will be a conversation process for lights and such, or the eventual integration into the new Filament renderer.  It really is a wonderful thing.  I suspect as more time and more development from the tech gurus moves forward, we will see incredible updates, additions, and add-ones to make the workflow process of rendering so much faster and easier.  
 

Thank you again! 

It is Physically Based Renderer  as Iray but lightweight versions and not as the original filament engine as it missing a lot of functions , there is no shadow catcher (YET) the enviorment HDRI is used only as IBL like it was in early version of Poser, it don't produce shadows, no global illuminations and the materials not reflecting other materials .. no transulency, no SSS, no volumetrics .... and your figure's skin will looks like in Poser 4 

Shadows can be generated using distance and spot lights, there is limitations how many light with shadows you can use .. it is a draw mode so not expect much , it is great to setup PBR shaders as it works perfectly , metals, nonmetal materials etc.. 

Happy Preview Rendering !

Darn. I thought we left glowing nostrils behind ages ago. I should check my archived runtimes for the props we used to parent to the head to plug the nostrils. Okay, no one throw anything at me. It's been a long night and looks to be an even longer morning. I don't have access to my own system and I can't leave the floor for a while so I'm going to ask what maybe a dumb question but I'm sleep deprived so bear with me. Filament does not seem to manage shadows very well. At least that's the general impression I'm getting. If that's the case can we use PWCatch? I know, it's an older product but it provided DS with shadow catching back when it needed. If there's a reason it won't work, just ignore me or tell me why. For all I know, it doesn't work in more current versions of DS. I'll be at my desk drinking another double hot chocolate with two triple espressos.

I'm finding Filament *super* bright, compared to Iray.  Here's an example, both Iray and Filament, of the same scene, changing nothing but the DrawStyle of the viewport.
Does anyone know why this might be, and how I might fix it?

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

Filament doesn't use Iray or 3delight shaders as such, though I think Daz has doen work - as they did with Iray - to try to make sensible conversions of the standard shader(s)

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

You can mix, yes, but as in Iray itself there will be conversion rather than a diect implementation of the different shaders.

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

I don't think filament is really meant for stills and probably the engine for that is going to stay IRAY.  What it is particularly good at because of speed is animations.  It is going to take some getting used to though.  It is pretty much instantanious on my machine.  I can see doing a 5 minute clip with it.  I'd grow really old trying to do that in IRAY.

There's a thread over in the DAZ Studio section of the forum: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/445567/filament-tutorials-shaders-lights#latest

From that thread, this post is very thorough: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6142987/#Comment_6142987

 

I don't know if Filament ultimately has that capability although Filament in 'realtime' PBR mode is fast enough and looks good enough to run on most modern mobile hardware if RAM amounts are increased. I couldn't tell you if Unity, UE4, and Crysis are using Filament in their crossplatform engines though

Filament was developed at google as a side project, It's neat, and allows a developer to get 3D rendering with PBR very quickly. It's really cool and can render some nice images, Unity, UE4 and Crysis all use their own proprietary rendering engines.

While its not realistic to expect filament to match iray keep in mind that this new update will give you viewport Ambient Occlusion, Realtime Shadows, and Order independent transparency. Those will pull the current viewport out of the 90s and make it far more usefull.

In a nutshell, Filament was developed primarily for the Android and is a to Gaming what paint is to photoshop. Filament is for apps that don't want the huge overhead that a 3D game render engine like Unity has.

So Kepler is removed huh. I guess 4.12 will be my final version then (Geforce 770 GTX 4GB). I am not buying a new graphics card before I known which graphics card will support HEVC 10bit 4:2:2 hardware decoding (nothing supports that yet, it is necessary for videos from the Canon EOS R5)

Yep, it's not Daz' fault mind you, it's Iray itself having been upgraded. I was on a GTX 760 TI before upgrading, and I was constantly getting warnings in my render logs about Iray throwing a fit that support for my GPU was ending soon. I do wonder though if the new filament renderer works on older cards. If so, that old card of mine might have a new use. lol

The argument about using older cards that DAZ uses was no longer valid the moment they decided to update Iray as well, essentially disabeling quality renders on old hardware. Filament does not seem to be a worthy replacement for Iray at the moment.

Filament isn't meant to be an Iray repalcement. Daz may well have no choice but to update Iray when they update DS, but even if they do using an older version would mean older bugs would remain.

3DL textures play better with Filament than Iray ones - this scene is sort of hybrid. Benita's skin is Iray, but the light, the hair and eye textures and the background are all 3DL.

Also was looking forward to filament - until I found out that Mac folks are not invited to the party. And this although I still have slow Intel silicone in by box. Well time will tell. At least no need to shop for additional filament stuff at the moment.

whats with the filament render addition? I dont understand its advantage - is it for a quick physcial render preview? 

So Kepler is removed huh. I guess 4.12 will be my final version then (Geforce 770 GTX 4GB). I am not buying a new graphics card before I known which graphics card will support HEVC 10bit 4:2:2 hardware decoding (nothing supports that yet, it is necessary for videos from the Canon EOS R5)

Yep, it's not Daz' fault mind you, it's Iray itself having been upgraded. I was on a GTX 760 TI before upgrading, and I was constantly getting warnings in my render logs about Iray throwing a fit that support for my GPU was ending soon. I do wonder though if the new filament renderer works on older cards. If so, that old card of mine might have a new use. lol

The argument about using older cards that DAZ uses was no longer valid the moment they decided to update Iray as well, essentially disabeling quality renders on old hardware. Filament does not seem to be a worthy replacement for Iray at the moment.

I just saw the news on Filament this morning. It looks AMAZING!  I can't render in Iray, or rather, I can hardly render in Iray.  I have a Dell T3500, fitted up with a GTX 970.  It's the most that I can afford on a school custodian's paycheck.  (Hobbyist here, not a pro). Iray is just too much for my system despite having 4GB of VRAM, and 24 GB of RAM.  When I try to render in Iray, and sometimes certain 3Delight lights - DAZ just crashes due to the fact that my system overloads or the render can take over 24 hours.  I have all these wonderful Iray shaders and lights and I simply cannot use them, which is a shame since some are so innovative and beautiful.

THIS!  This is a most welcome addition.  I animate too, so it's a virtual godsend.

As such, I have several questions after watching the tutorial here and I'm not sure anyone can answer yet:

1) Can multiple shaders be combined in one scene now?  Ex:  I want to use pWtoon shaders with an HDR background and an Iray metallic shaded sword, can it be done with Filament rendering?  (Iray and 3Delight shaders get cranky together once lighting is added to a scene, often crashing the program or showing as all black or all white forms)

2) Can Iray geoshells be placed over 3Delight shaders?  There are some makeup overlays that I love, but the caveat is that I must use an Iray skin the NVidia Iray Render mode to make them work.  Again, my PC cannot render in Iray, no matter how much I beg, plead, and chant a mantra around it.  It just won't.

 

3) The tutorial/intro video says that Filament works with older systems.  Please say this is going to compact with Windows 7 pro!  I not interested in the chaos that is known as Windows 8 or 10.  I refuse to have to upgrade to those O/S until I'm absolutely forced to by the powers that be.

 

Thank you!

 

I meant, *be compatible- not "compact" autocorrect strikes again.