but I can't even see how they are used, unless they match the changes I make in those setting and thus become saved with the scene? 

Yes, they are saved with the scene.  They always were saved with the scene.  Those settings are scene+camera+frame specific however.  If you load an existing (pre 4.14) scene on which any of the relevant options have been set it appears with Tonemapper and Environment options nodes.  My understanding is that these are just the scene-global data copied to scene nodes.  If you set "viewport" rendering in the Rendering tab the tonemapper and environment options disappear; mostly they weren't used with the viewport and *most* of them aren't used with Filament rendering, but now if you click on the relevant new nodes it is possible to set the settings.

Unfortunately this is half implemented; I can only have one "Environment", which is probably reasonable, but I can't animate the Sun-Sky settings (e.g. to do a time-lapse sunset).  In fact the only properties that can be animated are translate/rotate/scale and these properties are actually hidden...  Likewise I can't have per-camera tone mapping settings, I can move the Tonemapper Options node to a camera but I cannot create a second one.   Much more important I can't animate the all important EV in tone mapping - this is the only part of TM that filament rendering uses (it uses a fixed gamma encoding and no true tonemapping).  This means I still can't adjust the exposure as I pan a camera; a long standing issue with Daz which makes it all but impossible to do real-world tracking-camera type animations.

To make the point with a real example; I just stood in the middle of my living room with my camera and panned the camera through 360 degrees.  The exposure (fixed aperture/shutter) went from ISO4000 to ISO200 and that is with a 36mm(35mm equiv) focal length.  So that is an EV 4.3 exposure range from a single position and using what I consider to be a wide angle lens.  For another example think of entering a building from the outside; there are about 5s of the room being dark before we adapt.  It does seem that filament rendering is doing some kind of global adjustment to HDRI exposure; I generated a 360 degree rotate movie of a similar scene to my living room (actually an HDRI of my office) and the HDRI settings required in the environment were completely different to the Iray ones - the map intensity went from 0.01 with Iray to approximately the default (1.0) with filament.  However the adaption is global - at EV13 the windows are over-exposed and the room under-exposed.

It's all very promising, but some work is required; these bugs (no per-camera exposure, no exposure animation) have been in Daz since I started using it and are very obvious; I can animate the camera aperture but it only affects the depth of field, not the exposure!

Part of the reason for the new Singleton nodes is that similar settings are split between Draw Settings and Render Settings, depending on context (Iray render vs Filament DrawStyle) - and there have been very recent posts from people finding this confusing. Uniting them in a single node, which can be accessed through the Parameters pane like most other settings, is a way to make things more accessible (though it isn't at the expense of the old method, so previous tutorials should still be good). These are the first examples of the idea, there may well be future additions and enhancements to add some of the things you hope for.

Like everytime I create a group I have to remember to type my group name into the second line because anything typed in the first one is ignored for a group numbered by the program

Yep, that's really annoying too, it applies to everything I think - "name" and "label" are synonyms in the language I speak but Daz seems to ascribe extra meaning to them.

Label is user-facing, name is internal - the label can be changed without consequence, the name cannot be changed with impunity.

In general, how stable is it if you're not doing animation?  Right now, I'm mostly interested in trying out Filament.

I use DS for approx 16 hours a day, it is stable. Which version of DS do you have installed now?

4.12.1.118

It seems way "brighter" than iRAY scenes? But all of the shaders I use are iRAY, so is it a combination of iRAY lighting rigs and iRAY shaders?

The absolute first thing to do with a new scene when you're using Filament is go to Create->New Environment Options Node , select Environment Options in the scene, go to Parameters and set Environment Intensity to around about 0.3. Intensity 1.0 is much too high for Filament (at least, for this release of DAZ Studio). If you're going to add additional lights (such as Point Lights), set it as low as 0.15. Hope that helps.

Just double-checked to be sure I was not fibbing or fooling myself.

3 G8Fs in scene, each a different character.  Each have seams between torso, arms and legs.  Even after filament finishes processing textures. 

This seam looks almost like an issue with bump map in my case (disable most normal maps).

Paintbox, can you say whether you have normals on, and post an image of arm/torso seam area?

I tried this lowering base bump to 1-0 and it did get rid of most of the seams completely as well with other details.

 

Yup. have my bump at 2 (with no normals as I usually do) and changed to 0 and seams went away.

Those seams are not there in Iray or texture shaded.

Just double-checked to be sure I was not fibbing or fooling myself.

3 G8Fs in scene, each a different character.  Each have seams between torso, arms and legs.  Even after filament finishes processing textures. 

This seam looks almost like an issue with bump map in my case (disable most normal maps).

Paintbox, can you say whether you have normals on, and post an image of arm/torso seam area?

I tried this lowering base bump to 1-0 and it did get rid of most of the seams completely as well with other details.

Iray does compress images (at thresholds set in the Advanced tab of render Settings) which might show seams, you could try raising the strong threshold and see if that helps. I'm not sure about Filament.

I tried this, haven't tried a render yet though, but in the preview it didn't work still. Also not sure, but filament wouldn't load my 2nd figure some reason for comparisons of the seams. 

I tried filament and it was fine, but now I can' render in IRay.  Every time I try, even from a fresh canvas Daz adds 'Tonemapper Options' and 'Environment Options' to my scene tab and the endered image is black.  My Render engine is set to IRay.  WTF?!

Did you by any chance reduce the lighting for filament so it wasn't blindly white? (which is the default).

If you did, and forgot to change back, your Iray render will be black, depending how much you changed the ISO or whatever you changed.

I'm absolutely blown away by Filament because hey, new free stuff to play with and I'll never say no to that. It's another spanner in the toolbox, and one that lets me render a scene in under 5 seconds. That's incredible by any measure. And I can see the same scene in the viewport as the final output, should I decide to keep with Filament as the render engine - I have that choice. Filament is one more option, and it's one that is only going to improve over time. You don't have to use it or even like it, but it's there should you want to use it (however you want to use it), and it's cost you nothing. 

Is it perfect for every render and every scene? Absolutely not, but then neither is 3Delight or iray either. This is another option, and I'm very glad it exists. Thank you, Daz.

...

^^^ This. All day long   80)

I render on a potato. To get that level of quality in less than a minute means I can do animation. There was no way that was an option before.

Versus iRAY (Issues?):

From 5 minutes over over excited "testing" I found that DOF doesn't seem to work in Filament (anyone else??) - Have searched, couldn't find a specific comment?

It seems way "brighter" than iRAY scenes? But all of the shaders I use are iRAY, so is it a combination of iRAY lighting rigs and iRAY shaders?

Anyway ... This PP+ Member is a lil giddy with the new toy and is wondering what animation project to have a go at first ... As quoted above, Thanks Daz.

From my limited experimentation it does seem that DOF doesn't work. 

I don't mess with tonemapping much in Iray because I do so many adjustments in post, but in Filament it really helps with lighting control. 

Sorry if this has been asked before - from what I've been reading so far I gather that Filament gives a preview of the current HDRI positioning, is that correct? Much like what IBL Master does in Iray? I'd love that, it's really such a pain to rotate the dome blindly! So could someone please confirm? Thanks and cheers!

yes it does. but HDR looks in low resolution.

Thanks for the quick response! Low res is okay, I'd just like to be able to check the general position of the HDRI without having to wait for the Iray viewport to start up. I set up my scenes on the (graphic chip only) laptop mostly and only hook up the external GPU for final renders because it's such a hassle. So Iray always takes time. Filament sounds like a really useful addition to me!

I'm absolutely blown away by Filament because hey, new free stuff to play with and I'll never say no to that. It's another spanner in the toolbox, and one that lets me render a scene in under 5 seconds. That's incredible by any measure. And I can see the same scene in the viewport as the final output, should I decide to keep with Filament as the render engine - I have that choice. Filament is one more option, and it's one that is only going to improve over time. You don't have to use it or even like it, but it's there should you want to use it (however you want to use it), and it's cost you nothing. 

Is it perfect for every render and every scene? Absolutely not, but then neither is 3Delight or iray either. This is another option, and I'm very glad it exists. Thank you, Daz.

...

^^^ This. All day long   80)

I render on a potato. To get that level of quality in less than a minute means I can do animation. There was no way that was an option before.

Versus iRAY (Issues?):

From 5 minutes over over excited "testing" I found that DOF doesn't seem to work in Filament (anyone else??) - Have searched, couldn't find a specific comment?

It seems way "brighter" than iRAY scenes? But all of the shaders I use are iRAY, so is it a combination of iRAY lighting rigs and iRAY shaders?

Anyway ... This PP+ Member is a lil giddy with the new toy and is wondering what animation project to have a go at first ... As quoted above, Thanks Daz.

You use the shaders from Iray, but you can tweak them to fit Filament, yes.

use tone mapping  to get the correct exposure for your scene. Use the nodes in the create menu,

I'm absolutely blown away by Filament because hey, new free stuff to play with and I'll never say no to that. It's another spanner in the toolbox, and one that lets me render a scene in under 5 seconds. That's incredible by any measure. And I can see the same scene in the viewport as the final output, should I decide to keep with Filament as the render engine - I have that choice. Filament is one more option, and it's one that is only going to improve over time. You don't have to use it or even like it, but it's there should you want to use it (however you want to use it), and it's cost you nothing. 

Is it perfect for every render and every scene? Absolutely not, but then neither is 3Delight or iray either. This is another option, and I'm very glad it exists. Thank you, Daz.

...

^^^ This. All day long   80)

I render on a potato. To get that level of quality in less than a minute means I can do animation. There was no way that was an option before.

Versus iRAY (Issues?):

From 5 minutes over over excited "testing" I found that DOF doesn't seem to work in Filament (anyone else??) - Have searched, couldn't find a specific comment?

It seems way "brighter" than iRAY scenes? But all of the shaders I use are iRAY, so is it a combination of iRAY lighting rigs and iRAY shaders?

Anyway ... This PP+ Member is a lil giddy with the new toy and is wondering what animation project to have a go at first ... As quoted above, Thanks Daz.

Just double-checked to be sure I was not fibbing or fooling myself.

3 G8Fs in scene, each a different character.  Each have seams between torso, arms and legs.  Even after filament finishes processing textures. 

This seam looks almost like an issue with bump map in my case (disable most normal maps).

Paintbox, can you say whether you have normals on, and post an image of arm/torso seam area?

 

Not at the computer right now, but will check asap. Unless someone else can step in ofcourse.

Sorry if this has been asked before - from what I've been reading so far I gather that Filament gives a preview of the current HDRI positioning, is that correct? Much like what IBL Master does in Iray? I'd love that, it's really such a pain to rotate the dome blindly! So could someone please confirm? Thanks and cheers!

yes it does. but HDR looks in low resolution.

Just double-checked to be sure I was not fibbing or fooling myself.

3 G8Fs in scene, each a different character.  Each have seams between torso, arms and legs.  Even after filament finishes processing textures. 

This seam looks almost like an issue with bump map in my case (disable most normal maps).

Paintbox, can you say whether you have normals on, and post an image of arm/torso seam area?

Sorry if this has been asked before - from what I've been reading so far I gather that Filament gives a preview of the current HDRI positioning, is that correct? Much like what IBL Master does in Iray? I'd love that, it's really such a pain to rotate the dome blindly! So could someone please confirm? Thanks and cheers!

Iray / Filament comparison

Saw this for the first time in filament on all G8Fs.  It's always there.  In Iray & texture shaded it looks fine at any zoom distance and angle.

Have not made an effort yet to see if playing with settings will help.  Kinda like ToneMapping>ISO diff from 30.0 to 0.56 (thanks Mec3d for 0.56) when switching fr Iray to Filament.

All of the images below were rendered using Filament. Each took less than 3 seconds to render, and I could make all of these (and more) in the time it would have taken to render just one of them in 3Delight or iray. Maybe they'd look "better" in iray but n my ancient laptop if the choice is between "good  enough" in 3 seconds or 4+ hours for "better", I'll take good enough for all but the most precious of renders thanks. For those, I'll render in Filament first, adjust the lights then leave the iray version chugging overnight. Choice is a wonderful thing, don't you think?

Great renders on Filament, I haven't played with point lights in years!!

So as soon as my render was finished, I hooked my internet up to my Carrara beast machine, fired up DIM and installed the new DS and Rosie 8 stuff. Don't worry, Rosie 5 and 8 can play and work together!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to tweak out Filament, but for working on animations it's Fan-Freaking-Tastic! Well... I need to watch more videos on it. I put a bunch of them up on my Site's Daz Studio section so I can pound on that stuff when I'm not busy with Carrara.

Anyway, I had fun tweaking Lara, evolving her into the beginnings of her assumed role to be - maybe and, after saving her to the library as a preset, I ran her on a little scene test mission!

I was actually planning on trying another Filament render, but I just wasn't getting there. Not that long ago - when I put the videos up on my site, in fact, I saw a nice Daz 3D tutorial on setting up Iray for rendering animations. I couldn't remember everything he said to do, but I got close enough to make this render at a little over one minute per frame - and I didn't really even know what I was doing!

The actual render is larger and not GIF, but I think this still looks wonderful for the test run that it was - a first ever animated render using Iray!

Holy Moly you guys!!!

I used Filament just fine for getting an animation put together, but not well enough to run it for the render, so I switched to Iray. OMG!!!

 Little Lara Thorne and her Bronwyn Hair are fricken Spectacular! Dropped in an HDRI for both lighting and an environment and set up Iray for speed - something I just kinda started picking up on how to do... kinda.

Well my animation is rendering at roughly a minute per frame, give or take, and the results look fantastic!

Filament is amazing! Even if I stick with Iray for my final renders, Filament looks gorgeous at its absurdly fast render speed!

 

 

Wow. Just... Wow!

Great Job! Thanks Team Daz 3D!!!

Haha that's an awesome render.

And yeah filament for many of us animators is looking good as a big step up.

+1 on Thanks Daz! (actually wrote that the 1st day of filament release in threads, but worth repeating again.  )