Se ne diranno di tutti i colori, ma credo che Genesis 9 fosse un passo scontato. Sinceramente sono MOLTO curioso di provare Victoria 9 HD, preordinarla come fosse un bene fisico mi pare esagerato, specialmente tenendo conto di un periodo iniziale dove mancheranno i vari items di contorno....io finchè non ho un vestito decente e un capello aprilysh oppure OOT non sono soddisfatto. In più non mi piacciono nè il capello nè il bikini proposti a corredo del preorder. La voglio provare sicuramente, e credo che al primo sconto decente (Black Friday? Natale?) mi ci butterò a pesce. Spero di non rimanere deluso, mi aspetto un miglioramento specialmente su come reagiscono carne e muscoli ad un certo tipo di posa. Ad esempio la famigerata posa di inginocchiamento, dove polpaccio e parte posteriore della coscia interagiscono orribilmente.... Poi se qualcuno mi può spiegare sta concomitanza di uomo e donna insieme, ecco, gli sarei grato. Cioè, Victoria sarà Lei, Lui, Loro? Non capisco, e in questi frangenti di inclusività 2022 io mi sento un pò disorientato. È una sensazione un pò spiacevole sapete, volevo dirvelo.

caravelle said:

Pendraia said:

So I'm looking at the bundle for Victoria 9 and it doesn't list what's included. Does anyone know when that will be announced or should I look at preordering the base figure?

I'm not spending $111.99 without knowing what I'm buying...

For this reason I have only pre-ordered V9 (which I like!) But if the bundle contains mostly cyberpunk, skimpwear or overdecorated fantasy stuff, $80 is out the window.

I haven't pre ordered anything yet despite being very excited about genesis 9.

Pendraia said:

So I'm looking at the bundle for Victoria 9 and it doesn't list what's included. Does anyone know when that will be announced or should I look at preordering the base figure?

I'm not spending $111.99 without knowing what I'm buying...

For this reason I have only pre-ordered V9 (which I like!) But if the bundle contains mostly cyberpunk, skimpwear or overdecorated fantasy stuff, $80 is out the window.

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

I have to agree ;). We've been spoiled by Genesis 8. It had more compatibility than most, but that was also because G8 was SO similar to G3. Most subsequent figures don't have much backward compatibility from the previous version and it's been that way since Victoria 2.

Just my plugged wooden nickel's worth of commentary ...

There really isn't anything in G9 that appeals to me. However, I said the same thing about both G3 and G8, and within a year of each release, I had changed my mind. To review the major selling points (at the moment) ...

High Poly Count: This is a boon to portrait artists. However, I mostly make action scenes, meaning full body and multiple characters. At that distance, any advantage of high poly count will be lost. I'd rather spend the resources on a detailed set.

8K Textures: The same for these that I said about polies. However, I can shrink them to 4K, which is no big deal considering I never use skin maps right out of the box. They're raw materials.

Asymmetrical Morphs: If these are morphs that can be used or not, depending on the desire of the artist, fine. I don't have to use them. But I have an asymmetrical face and would never curse one of my characters with what I see in the mirror every day.

Unisex Mesh: This alone could prevent me from using G9. It was the reason I never used G1. The unisex mesh meant the men didn't look masculine and the women didn't look feminine. Unisex mesh was androgynous. I work in genre art, and stylized looks are expected. However, G9 is not G1. I will say Victoria 9 looks a heck of a lot better than the "ridden hard and put up wet" V8. That's promising.

Ultimately, it's too early for me to say yes or no. I'd be stupid to repeat my flat-out "NOPE" of G3 and G8, considering man was I wrong about both. I'll have to wait and get my hands on a G9 base and see what she can do.

 

While Victoria 9 indeed looks great, I must admit I'm a bit disappointed. 
i'd had expected the new generation of figures would come with at least some of the features people are asking for for years now.
Things like soft body physics, underlying muscle tissues, soft body physics, a propper and intuitive ik system, soft body physics, animation improvemts and most important... soft body physics. 

I know some if not all of these things wound require an update to Daz Studio itself but that is part of my disappointment. 
Since the first announcement of DS 5 more than a year has passed now and a first look was actually promised for around christmas 2021. I'd actually have expected to get at least an alpha of DS 5 along with Genesis 9 to make use of the new features.

Well, maybe I simply expected too much. 

outrider42 said:

bytescapes said:

daveso said:

Are 8k textures going to render on my system? What are the specs?

During the presentation, Jay Versluis described his system -- 48GB RAM, dual Xeon processors, a 3090 and a 2080, which is a pretty beefy machine -- and he also kept saying that he didn't want to do certain things (I think it was turning on SubD for View) or his system would become very slow.

He also said that he thought that if you had 8GB of VRAM, "you'd be OK". And that he'd try to find out whether V9 would render on a 4GB VRAM card, or if you'd need to scale down her textures with an optimizer.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if V9 is going to be resource hungry. We know that she has 8K textures and double the polygon count of previous generations. So I think it's safe to assume that she will want all the resources you can throw at her. If you struggle with G8 figures now, you can probably expect to feel some pain.

The reason his system would get slow has nothing to do with his GPU. Remember Daz is single threaded, so using a workstation CPU is actually a detriment to the in app performance. Workstation CPUs pack tons of cores, but each individual core is a lot slower than a good consumer desktop CPU. So because Daz Studio is still siingle threaded, he is only using one single core with Daz Studio. I have a 5800X, and I can keep 6 or 8 Genesis 8 charactrs at subdivision 2 or 3  in my viewport without any issues at all. A single HD character in an empty scene like he had would not even make my 5800X's one core that Daz uses sweat. LOL.

The texture resolution of any character is up to the PA who makes them. Victoria 9 has 8K textures, that does not mean every single Genesis 9 character will. And Jay was incorrect that no Genesis has ever had so much detail before. Several characters in the past have used 8K textures. Bluejaunte characters have had 8K spec maps for a long time. George 8 had 8K torso textures. I have made 8K textures myself to a degree. At any rate, while Victoria 9 has 8K textures others may not. That said it is likely that Vicktoria 9 probably sets the standard for other Daz Original 9 Core characters that follow.

Texture data is controlled by Iray's compression settings. So you can limit the data by changing the settings. And you can always downscale textures if you really need to. Textures are by far the easiest thing to deal with. I personally very much prefer having 8K textures, because it is easier to downscale than upscale. I like this move a lot. We have a product that automates downscaling textures for you, too. So this part is a non issue.

The next thing is mesh data. Now this is in question. Until we can see the actual poly counts of the models next to each other it is hard to say how well this translates in practical use. But we can't compress mesh data like textures. The only option I am aware of is Decimate, and I am not sure it even works anymore. In general, I like that we get a better base mesh. But at the same time, why we needed a better base mesh is because Daz refuses to allow its customers to edit a HD mesh.

This brings up a totally different question. In the video Jay said that the new body morphs already have HD included. This is great...maybe. Since the user cannot sculpt with HD, if the user sees something they don't like on a body morph, can they sculpt that out??? Just as an example, what about a big vein on a guy. The vein doesn't show on the base much, if any, but does at HD level. Can the user remove this vein by sculpting, or will the HD part of the morph still retain some form of that vein? The same goes for creases and wrinkles, like aging. Or that crease on the bottom of a glute. I remember this being an issue with Tara 8 and her face scar, which could not be fully removed by sculpting the mesh. Daz eventually updated the character, but that was an outlier. Most characters don't get updated that way.

So while the changes look nice on paper, anti consumer practices may get in the way. If we the consumer could edit HD mesh we wouldn't need these 2 changes to begin with.

Well said...lots to think about.

As Genesis 9 has been announced, I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. For the most up to date information on this topic and to ask questions, please see the official thread here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/591351/genesis-9-coming-soon-preorder-victoria-9-hd-today/p1 ;

BeeMKay said:

G9 is a base mesh that has unified male/female, just like good ol' G1. As for the rest...

EDIT: I think I'll pass.

 I do find it interesting that Daz has gone back to the original Genesis unified style model with Genesis 9. Have to wonder why Daz decided to go back in that direction.

johnjohn808 said:

Im on a RTX 3060 12GB and Im still scared of the thought of the resources needed for the new stuff.

But then I again, for what I make I dont need that kind of detail.

Still a tough sell for me though.

I made the mistake for buying Victoria 8.1 on day one, whom I used just one single time after seeing how long it takes to load PBR skin (Man I hate that skin LOL).

Yeah I have a RTX 3060 as well and this well yikes from what I am gathering of what others are saying, (have not seen the video lol) and agree in it will probably be a year or so before I jump onboard, like I did with Genesis 3 and Genesis 8.

marble said:

Nothing jaw dropping. Big disappointment that DS5 is still some way off. V9 very expensive and will require a PC upgrade for many users. I have a RTX 3090 but am not tempted to go for this new generation. Maybe in a year from now, if DS5 is here by then. The V9 close-up detail is very impressive but I don't do close-ups so G8 is fine for my purposes (I don't even have any G8.1 characters).

Looking forward to a lot of G8 stuff coming with big discounts.

I am in the same boat with the need for a new base figure, it was a while before I went all in on Genesis 3 and then Genesis 8. On hardware yeah will be interesting to see if my I7 8700K with 32GB and a RTX 3060 could even handle this new figure, since it looks like it will be resource heavy. And true I was more hoping for Studio 5 as well, seems like we will have to continue to wait.

What I want to know is when does the pre-order period for Victoria 9 HD end, because I don't know if I should get her soon or wait a bit. (Not buying the bundle until I know what else is in it.) I tried to look but haven't found anything.

bytescapes said:

daveso said:

Are 8k textures going to render on my system? What are the specs?

During the presentation, Jay Versluis described his system -- 48GB RAM, dual Xeon processors, a 3090 and a 2080, which is a pretty beefy machine -- and he also kept saying that he didn't want to do certain things (I think it was turning on SubD for View) or his system would become very slow.

He also said that he thought that if you had 8GB of VRAM, "you'd be OK". And that he'd try to find out whether V9 would render on a 4GB VRAM card, or if you'd need to scale down her textures with an optimizer.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if V9 is going to be resource hungry. We know that she has 8K textures and double the polygon count of previous generations. So I think it's safe to assume that she will want all the resources you can throw at her. If you struggle with G8 figures now, you can probably expect to feel some pain.

The reason his system would get slow has nothing to do with his GPU. Remember Daz is single threaded, so using a workstation CPU is actually a detriment to the in app performance. Workstation CPUs pack tons of cores, but each individual core is a lot slower than a good consumer desktop CPU. So because Daz Studio is still siingle threaded, he is only using one single core with Daz Studio. I have a 5800X, and I can keep 6 or 8 Genesis 8 charactrs at subdivision 2 or 3  in my viewport without any issues at all. A single HD character in an empty scene like he had would not even make my 5800X's one core that Daz uses sweat. LOL.

The texture resolution of any character is up to the PA who makes them. Victoria 9 has 8K textures, that does not mean every single Genesis 9 character will. And Jay was incorrect that no Genesis has ever had so much detail before. Several characters in the past have used 8K textures. Bluejaunte characters have had 8K spec maps for a long time. George 8 had 8K torso textures. I have made 8K textures myself to a degree. At any rate, while Victoria 9 has 8K textures others may not. That said it is likely that Vicktoria 9 probably sets the standard for other Daz Original 9 Core characters that follow.

Texture data is controlled by Iray's compression settings. So you can limit the data by changing the settings. And you can always downscale textures if you really need to. Textures are by far the easiest thing to deal with. I personally very much prefer having 8K textures, because it is easier to downscale than upscale. I like this move a lot. We have a product that automates downscaling textures for you, too. So this part is a non issue.

The next thing is mesh data. Now this is in question. Until we can see the actual poly counts of the models next to each other it is hard to say how well this translates in practical use. But we can't compress mesh data like textures. The only option I am aware of is Decimate, and I am not sure it even works anymore. In general, I like that we get a better base mesh. But at the same time, why we needed a better base mesh is because Daz refuses to allow its customers to edit a HD mesh.

This brings up a totally different question. In the video Jay said that the new body morphs already have HD included. This is great...maybe. Since the user cannot sculpt with HD, if the user sees something they don't like on a body morph, can they sculpt that out??? Just as an example, what about a big vein on a guy. The vein doesn't show on the base much, if any, but does at HD level. Can the user remove this vein by sculpting, or will the HD part of the morph still retain some form of that vein? The same goes for creases and wrinkles, like aging. Or that crease on the bottom of a glute. I remember this being an issue with Tara 8 and her face scar, which could not be fully removed by sculpting the mesh. Daz eventually updated the character, but that was an outlier. Most characters don't get updated that way.

So while the changes look nice on paper, anti consumer practices may get in the way. If we the consumer could edit HD mesh we wouldn't need these 2 changes to begin with.

Sorry I don't make it to the forums right now. Busy little drummer boy!

After joining in the special presentation, I just have to come in and add some thoughts:

Not another new Version to buy for....!!!

Yeah, I can get that. In fact, I was on the same page, hoping for other news.

However, Daz 3d has truly knocked it out of the park with this one! 

There has been/is a great run on the Genesis 8/8.1 lineup which, it appears to me to have been an amazing launchpad for this new generation in many ways, while also being so excellent as to still give many folks a massive assortment should they they opt out of a new era. It usually takes a bit for new generations to grow their wings anyway, so in the meanwhile we have some really great people to work with.

This next level of Genesis generation is also not meant for the lowly computer - something that Genesis 1 still really does well with. Daz 3d loves to make great people. In order to do that, they'll need us to up our game in the computer department. Most Daz artists I know of won't have an issue. But with 8K maps and a higher resolution base, Genesis 9 reaches a level of realism that's hard to ignore. So to start us off, the free Genesis 9 Unisex figure was very intelligently designed to be unisex. You'll see what I mean. In base resolution, we can see the elegance of a SubD cage with an interesting base shape that looks perfect for lending into either male or female or some sort of animal or creature. This is exciting to me!

We'll also be getting four skin tone material presets for male and female humans: Caucasian, Oriental, South African and Hispanic along with the usual, decent variety of starter morphs and such - including some basic emotion sliders and even one for asymmetry!

They've also made eyes and mouth separate figures that conform to the base, like eyelashes and tears of 8.1. This means less distortion of those elements through shaping morphs, etc., which also means that products like Riversoft Art's Character Convertors will likely be able to be a lot more successful of 'less-than-normal' shapes. But it also means that character artists will have an easier time with making their products. HD teeth details anyone? 

It's amazing what can be done with HD morph technology. I'm guessing that HD is how we'll get details like nipples and such, since they don't seem to be present on the base mesh, and I can't see them opting for Normal Maps because that would be a poke-through disaster! Simulations wouldn't see them!

 

Seeing this Unisex 'unimesh' cage immediately got me excited about the future of this generation - with this much change (according to what might have been holding them back from the more real looking figure) artists will have a cleaner slate that doesn't include the mesh for the eyes, lashes, tears or mouth (unless they need to), they'll likely feel more free to make a wider variety and get even better results.

 

When Jay did his comparisons between Genesis 8.1 and 9 expression dials, it was night and day! Genesis 8.1 looked great, but not 'real'. Genesis 9 sure looked real to me. Well, to be more specific, it was the incredible new Victoria 9 in the comparison against Victoria 8.1. All Victoria's are great, but 9 is truly stunning!

 

I'm still using Genesis 3 because it works better for me on my aging new system. I've also made a Genesis 8 version of Rosie, who is meant to be used for closer shots, but Rosie 7 kinda rocks the closeup as well. But nothing like Victoria 9! Yikes!

 

The rigging is entirely different now. There are spine bones. Jay mentioned that this is the modern universal bone naming structure and, if that's the case, I'd want them to go that route too - even though it'll mean more converting for me... but for a figure this special, I wouldn't mind.

 

There will be a lot of controversy about all of this, I know. But from someone who knows that he cannot yet jump to this newer version just yet, it was (hands down!) the right direction to go for a new figure. Just try to keep in mind that, while we might wait for someone to make x for this figure, Daz Studio has a plethora of Solid Tools to help us make some of our own improvements the way we like them as we wait. I'm doing a Lot of that to my Genesis 3 and 8 figures which is really cool! Now I have the experience I need to make these tools even Better for a whole new figure - this time I only have to make them once! :)

 

Cheer, my Daz 3d family! I miss you all and hope you're all doing well!

DarTANbeck

marble said:

Petra said:

I am very happy that we get G9 and that it is like the Original first Genesis.

No buying guys or Girls, just slide the dials.

Was hoping they would go back to that.

Pre Ordered Victoria 9 and can not wait to get playing.

 

 

Are you sure about that? I imagine that the store will fill up with females and males just like always. Clothing will be designed for the female shape or the male so we will still have the bust cling and other problems as Jay explained in the presentation. 

The pa's should create a custom morph for both the female and the male figure. I'm not sure what others could reasonably be expected these days as there are so many core products.

 

Petra said:

I am very happy that we get G9 and that it is like the Original first Genesis.

No buying guys or Girls, just slide the dials.

Was hoping they would go back to that.

Pre Ordered Victoria 9 and can not wait to get playing.

 

 

Are you sure about that? I imagine that the store will fill up with females and males just like always. Clothing will be designed for the female shape or the male so we will still have the bust cling and other problems as Jay explained in the presentation. 

Twilight76 said:

Pendraia said:

Outfit fitted to genesis 8 then morphed in zbrush to fit. Had to be a morph as when I updated the mesh it was raised up. Would probably work if not raised up prior though. Too early I need more coffee.

The reality is the new figure will be like any other figure that's been introduced. Eventually people will swap over to it or find work arounds if their machines don't cope with high ram.

Can anyone remember the size on the elite textures for v4?

The Elite Texture was "only" (4096 x 4096)

Thanks, given that Victoria 4 had a much denser mesh and most machines would have a lot more ram on the video cards as well as the system I'm sure most will cope. If not I'm sure there will be workarounds like lowering the size of the textures maps a bit...

richardrhinson said:

bytescapes said:

richardrhinson said:

So clothing might work?
What about hair?
Characters?
Skins?
Or is this a start from scratch all over again scenario?

Based on what Jay Versluis said, clothing from previous generations will be fitted to the new figure with AutoFit, and tight clothing will work better than loose clothing (this seems to be a general rule with AutoFit).

He demonstrated applying poses to the figure using a script developed by one of the PAs; it looked as if that worked pretty well.

He showed a G8 hair fitted to G9/V9, but if I remember correctly he said that he'd had to work some magic in Blender to make it fit properly.

No mention was made of applying or converting characters from previous generations; I assume that's not going to be possible at launch, but perhaps a PA will develop a converter tool.

Ditto for skins. It sounded from what was said -- or, rather, what was NOT said -- as if you can't just take a G8 skin and apply it to G9. Again, someone might come up with a conversion tool, although that could be quite challenging.

The impression I had -- and I am not an expert on this stuff at all -- was that converting character shapes and skins from G8 to G9 will be more complex than converting G3 to G8.

So it's not quite start from scratch, but it's not likely that you'll be able to use everything you already own on Launch Day, and you may need to buy additional software to use your existing assets effectively.

Let's just say that DAZ weren't making any promises about compatibility.

So for casual artists like myself 8.1 is a hard stop point until V9 is offered for free at some point so we can see if she'll even render on our rigs, and some PA is going to have to do what DAZ did not, which is to provide a path forward for the thousands of dollars already invested into art assets by so many.  Which is fine, because granular face morphs only because an easy thing all of last week on 8.1.... so as big news goes, this was a dud.

I doubt that as the genesis 9 base will be released with Daz Studio from what has been said. This will allow people to use the figure and there will no doubt be freebies created for the figure. V9 is after all just another character these days. It used to be the base figure was Victoria that's no longer the case...

Several people tuned in the special announcement iclucing me.

No free item yet, not even the latest build for Daz Studio.

But with so much fanfarre is being told about Victoria 9 

Also I have not found any entry with what was announced just recently.

Catherine3678ab said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I am assuming there will still be a free base figure

believe or not I still don't own G8.1 Victoria or Michael and no wish to

AFAIK, yes.

Yes the base is free as usual. You will need to purchase V9 and M9 also as usual.

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I am assuming there will still be a free base figure

believe or not I still don't own G8.1 Victoria or Michael and no wish to

Yes it should be in 4.21Jay said

I am very happy that we get G9 and that it is like the Original first Genesis.

No buying guys or Girls, just slide the dials.

Was hoping they would go back to that.

Pre Ordered Victoria 9 and can not wait to get playing.