Hylas said:

So, is this the official G9 pre-mature opinions thread now?

Can we perhaps re-title it to something more neutral?

 

In any case, here are some feelings:

I started 4 years ago (dear lord) with G8. I embraced G8.1 from day one and never regretted it, because of its amazing backward compatibility.

I've been using ds for 17 years, many others have been using it longer. I started with Victoria 3 and the other millennium 3 figures. Didn't really invest until v4 and then genesis. Haven't really invested since the original genesis. I buy here and there but mainly convert older stuff to the newer figures. 

That said I'm excited by the new figure not because of the better expressions or by the 8000k textures but because it's finally one figure again. 

Genesis 8 had very poor backward compatibility when you compare it to the original genesis that came with all the millennium 4 figures as clones and alternative uv's. Plus clones were quickly available for the main mil 3 figures. 

While Victoria 9 indeed looks great, I must admit I'm a bit disappointed. 
i'd had expected the new generation of figures would come with at least some of the features people are asking for for years now.
Things like soft body physics, underlying muscle tissues, soft body physics, a propper and intuitive ik system, soft body physics, animation improvemts and most important... soft body physics. 

I know some if not all of these things wound require an update to Daz Studio itself but that is part of my disappointment. 
Since the first announcement of DS 5 more than a year has passed now and a first look was actually promised for around christmas 2021. I'd actually have expected to get at least an alpha of DS 5 along with Genesis 9 to make use of the new features.

Well, maybe I simply expected too much. 

Mendoman said:

To be honest, my jaw did not drop. I'm not really disappointed, but... I don't know. G9 is not a bad new figure, and to be honest it's a progress from G8, but still I kind of find it lacking. Just like with G3 -> G8 and G8 -> G8.1, nothing really new to see here. Anyways, here's my selfish list how I saw the presentation:

1) 8k maps is nothing ground breaking and we don't know if PAs and every core character will have 8k maps. Is it going to be the same as with current G8 brows? Some characters have separate brows and others don't. Anyways, this could have been done with G8 or G8.1. Maybe those that work with 16k resolution for posters or render face closeups or something find this useful, but I hope Daz offers 4k option also. Not really objecting this, but I hope this does not bring me extra work, since x4 GPU memory usage is way too much for my use when there's several characters and environment on screen at the same time.

2) Separating mouth and eyes as a separate components is a good thing in my opinion. It helps with subdivision to not subdivide unnecessary parts. Other than that, I don't see anything special with this one either, or maybe we get HD teeth or something from PAs at somepoint.

3) Double mesh density is a bonus in my books, but I'm sure some others disagree. I struggle with G8 low poly mesh when painting push modifier weight maps so extra vertices are more than welcome. Hopefully DS5 will allow us to use subdivided mesh when painting maps but I'm not holding my breath. Also making my own custom morphs will be easier with extra polycount, so definitely a plus in my books.

4) Not really a big fan of mandarory HD purchase. I don't like the idea that I'm forced to buy HD for every single core figure. Daz core characters are already way overpriced compared to PA characters, so now it's going to cost me $60 per character instead of $45. Not cool...

5) Uniform base mesh is kinda good, but as far as I understand it's not a miracle some users might think it is, so that they can use male and female clothes automatically. You can already autofit female clothing to men, and it's basically the same thing with G9, except maybe a little bit better because they share the same vertices. It just won't fit perfectly, unless PAs make shape morphs to fit both genders. Also if PAs start making these shape morphs for both genders it's going to be extra work for them, and I'm not too keen to pay double the price so that I can wear some girl dress on G9M. I don't object this change, but I'm worried about item prices and loading time problems with many figures in database. Will this change escalate loading time problem even further, and in a few years time we have to wait 20 minutes for G9 to load since now it has to load both G9F and G9M morphs for the character? I do like the idea that I could use G9F textures on G9M, so that's a bonus in my books.

6) Using old content is going to have same problems as we have now when trying to use G3 content on G8: Poor autofitting. It's going to need manual work to use your existing library, so definitely not a good thing. Also Jay did not talk anything about textures compability from G8 to G9, so I assume it's a no. This is a big let down for me at least, since I have quite a big library already. Of course my library of old chracters is not going anywhere, and I can still use them at will, but if I can't use G8 morphs or textures on G9, it's limiting it's usage a lot until there's more content for G9 available. They did not mention anything about metamixer either in the presentation, so no idea if G8 moprhs work for G9 that way, or is there even going to be a metamixer for G9?

7) New expressions did not impress me at all. They chose a character that looks terrible with current gen HD expressions and used it to compare to new Victoria 9 for which new G9 HD expressions are designed for. Why not comparing V8 vs V9, or was it because nobody could see any difference? Anybody can load their current favourite character and test HD expressions to see that they are really not that bad as Jay tried to make it look like in those comparison shots. And really, dialing all the way to 100% has never looked good for any character/expression combo and did not look natural for V9 either. To me, this was kinda the low point of presentation how they tried to make G8 look worse than it actually is. I get it's all marketing and hyping how great the new figure is, but....oh well, or maybe it was just me overreacting

8) Renaming abdomen lower/upper & chest lower/upper to spine1-4 is nothing spectacular. Maybe it helps some users with bridges or something, I don't know, but nothing exciting really for me.

 

Personally I find that the big release was a bit lacking, and I hope we have some "tech guy" instead of an "artist guy" to give us another presentation about G9 changes "under the hood". For example on V9 preorder page they mention posing and animation improvements, but currently I assume it's just marketing talk since they did not show anything in the presentation. If there is some actual improvements, I'd like to see what those are. As a summary, not a bad new figure, but still way behind my expectations. I was hoping soft body, better posing/bending/animation etc. some real tech upgrades compared to the current figures, but instead I got 8k maps. 

 

I did like the looks of Victoria 9, she's really pretty, but I already have plenty of pretty girls in my library, and since there's nothing really "new" I'm in no rush to preorder. Except the price hike, there's really nothing I really dislike about the figure, and that's a nice change, so probably in a few years or if/when there's enough high quality content for the new figure at reasonable prices, or some must have product/whatever pops up, or if Daz Studio 5 brings some G9 specific real changes, or.... well. I'm sure at some point I'll try it out, but G8 is still going to be my main character figure.... at least for now.

As much as I liked Victoria 9, the textures and expressions, imo there are very good looking expressions also for older figures looking better than those shown for comparison in the presentation. I will admit though, that it seems to be easier to create believable expressions with G9, so you can save time. Still, this part felt a bit manipulating, understandable as this was a promotional pesentation.

Also, as bluejaunte already mentioned, 8k textures can and already are used for older figures. 

As freebee i expected a shop item, but who knows, it still may end up in the shop, nothing for me though.

So, no jaw dropping here, I like vicky 9 very much and may buy it someday, although atm with the current huge world wide energy crisis, wars, massive environmental problems i am very hesitant following old trends of "more and bigger" and tend to hope for finding ways to create in ways less energy consuming. Filament kindled some hope, but still has to develop considerably, a hope Versluis also expressed during the show...

Have they said anything about HD being a normal part of models from now on? I notice that the Victoria 9 model is a HD version, which is great because I've always hated them selling the models with a separate HD addon - just charge what you want to charge, don't make it seem less expensive by doing that. I'm still not planning on purchasing much of the new stuff just because I have SO much money invested in G8/8.1, but making the HD model the norm would be a very welcome change.

To be honest, my jaw did not drop. I'm not really disappointed, but... I don't know. G9 is not a bad new figure, and to be honest it's a progress from G8, but still I kind of find it lacking. Just like with G3 -> G8 and G8 -> G8.1, nothing really new to see here. Anyways, here's my selfish list how I saw the presentation:

1) 8k maps is nothing ground breaking and we don't know if PAs and every core character will have 8k maps. Is it going to be the same as with current G8 brows? Some characters have separate brows and others don't. Anyways, this could have been done with G8 or G8.1. Maybe those that work with 16k resolution for posters or render face closeups or something find this useful, but I hope Daz offers 4k option also. Not really objecting this, but I hope this does not bring me extra work, since x4 GPU memory usage is way too much for my use when there's several characters and environment on screen at the same time.

2) Separating mouth and eyes as a separate components is a good thing in my opinion. It helps with subdivision to not subdivide unnecessary parts. Other than that, I don't see anything special with this one either, or maybe we get HD teeth or something from PAs at somepoint.

3) Double mesh density is a bonus in my books, but I'm sure some others disagree. I struggle with G8 low poly mesh when painting push modifier weight maps so extra vertices are more than welcome. Hopefully DS5 will allow us to use subdivided mesh when painting maps but I'm not holding my breath. Also making my own custom morphs will be easier with extra polycount, so definitely a plus in my books.

4) Not really a big fan of mandarory HD purchase. I don't like the idea that I'm forced to buy HD for every single core figure. Daz core characters are already way overpriced compared to PA characters, so now it's going to cost me $60 per character instead of $45. Not cool...

5) Uniform base mesh is kinda good, but as far as I understand it's not a miracle some users might think it is, so that they can use male and female clothes automatically. You can already autofit female clothing to men, and it's basically the same thing with G9, except maybe a little bit better because they share the same vertices. It just won't fit perfectly, unless PAs make shape morphs to fit both genders. Also if PAs start making these shape morphs for both genders it's going to be extra work for them, and I'm not too keen to pay double the price so that I can wear some girl dress on G9M. I don't object this change, but I'm worried about item prices and loading time problems with many figures in database. Will this change escalate loading time problem even further, and in a few years time we have to wait 20 minutes for G9 to load since now it has to load both G9F and G9M morphs for the character? I do like the idea that I could use G9F textures on G9M, so that's a bonus in my books.

6) Using old content is going to have same problems as we have now when trying to use G3 content on G8: Poor autofitting. It's going to need manual work to use your existing library, so definitely not a good thing. Also Jay did not talk anything about textures compability from G8 to G9, so I assume it's a no. This is a big let down for me at least, since I have quite a big library already. Of course my library of old chracters is not going anywhere, and I can still use them at will, but if I can't use G8 morphs or textures on G9, it's limiting it's usage a lot until there's more content for G9 available. They did not mention anything about metamixer either in the presentation, so no idea if G8 moprhs work for G9 that way, or is there even going to be a metamixer for G9?

7) New expressions did not impress me at all. They chose a character that looks terrible with current gen HD expressions and used it to compare to new Victoria 9 for which new G9 HD expressions are designed for. Why not comparing V8 vs V9, or was it because nobody could see any difference? Anybody can load their current favourite character and test HD expressions to see that they are really not that bad as Jay tried to make it look like in those comparison shots. And really, dialing all the way to 100% has never looked good for any character/expression combo and did not look natural for V9 either. To me, this was kinda the low point of presentation how they tried to make G8 look worse than it actually is. I get it's all marketing and hyping how great the new figure is, but....oh well, or maybe it was just me overreacting

8) Renaming abdomen lower/upper & chest lower/upper to spine1-4 is nothing spectacular. Maybe it helps some users with bridges or something, I don't know, but nothing exciting really for me.

Personally I find that the big release was a bit lacking, and I hope we have some "tech guy" instead of an "artist guy" to give us another presentation about G9 changes "under the hood". For example on V9 preorder page they mention posing and animation improvements, but currently I assume it's just marketing talk since they did not show anything in the presentation. If there is some actual improvements, I'd like to see what those are. As a summary, not a bad new figure, but still way behind my expectations. I was hoping soft body, better posing/bending/animation etc. some real tech upgrades compared to the current figures, but instead I got 8k maps. 

I did like the looks of Victoria 9, she's really pretty, but I already have plenty of pretty girls in my library, and since there's nothing really "new" I'm in no rush to preorder. Except the price hike, there's really nothing I really dislike about the figure, and that's a nice change, so probably in a few years or if/when there's enough high quality content for the new figure at reasonable prices, or some must have product/whatever pops up, or if Daz Studio 5 brings some G9 specific real changes, or.... well. I'm sure at some point I'll try it out, but G8 is still going to be my main character figure.... at least for now.

Can genesis 9/victoria 9 8k maps be rendered using low end cards like rtx 3050 and 3060?

plasma_ring said:

AndrewJJP said:

I've not been on Daz lately. I decided to stop spending money here because I don't like their marketing practices (midnight sales, US exclusive deals and selling things without telling you what they are ). I found out about this from a YouTube recommendation and of course it's interesting.

First, here we go again. I can't understand the logic of selling something without saying what it is. That's gambling isn't it? Maybe they don't know themselves? It's the only reason I can think of.

It looks great, my system can handle it, but from reading the comments here, it's not like previous generations where there's a free base character. You have to spend money to even try it. Is that right? Mine stupid marketing.

If I understood correctly, I have no idea how much content will work. And my renders almost all need very high heels, which mostly come from other sites, but Daz doesn't ever worry about backwards compatibility of heels, so first, I need to buy them all again, except what will I buy? I can't adopt this until I have a wide selection of high heels that work. And if only people that spend money get G9, will other content creators support it in the way they support G8.x?

i also use morphs extensively. If the base mesh has more geometry, that's good news, although I assume only a privileged few can make HD morphs. Can I finally make pressure morphs for tight clothing? I assume I don't know without spending money because there is no Genesis 9.

So my feeling is it's great technology spoiled by greedy marketing. And ignoring heels again.

It was mentioned on the stream that it'll work like the other generations, where you have to buy Victoria but there's free base G9 content. If it's like 8.1, probably any "optional" features beyond the base functionality of the figure (like 8k textures) will come with Victoria 9. 

Thanks! It's good to know I can try it, I'm glad I misunderstood!

What I particularly like about Genesis 9 is that, like G1, there is only one model who can then become a male, female or diverse character. That presumably also means that the clothes fit all genders, as in G1, doesn't it?

I don't really find Victoria 9 that interesting as a type. Unlike V8, she does look a bit average and 'shallow', like V8.1 before. The skin is excellent and beautiful, but there are also G8 characters with very good textures. 

The facial expression in the video doesn't blow me away (especially the lips), but that's because of the design of the video. The fact that there are even more possibilities to create the facial expressions is great, of course.

AndrewJJP said:

I've not been on Daz lately. I decided to stop spending money here because I don't like their marketing practices (midnight sales, US exclusive deals and selling things without telling you what they are ). I found out about this from a YouTube recommendation and of course it's interesting.

First, here we go again. I can't understand the logic of selling something without saying what it is. That's gambling isn't it? Maybe they don't know themselves? It's the only reason I can think of.

It looks great, my system can handle it, but from reading the comments here, it's not like previous generations where there's a free base character. You have to spend money to even try it. Is that right? More stupid marketing.

Victoria requires money and always has... The base figures will be free with ds4.21 is my understanding from what was said, what will be interesting is what comes with them. 

For example they showed 4 ethnics maps, will they be a product or come with the base figure? What template and morphs will be included? 

AndrewJJP said:

I've not been on Daz lately. I decided to stop spending money here because I don't like their marketing practices (midnight sales, US exclusive deals and selling things without telling you what they are ). I found out about this from a YouTube recommendation and of course it's interesting.

First, here we go again. I can't understand the logic of selling something without saying what it is. That's gambling isn't it? Maybe they don't know themselves? It's the only reason I can think of.

It looks great, my system can handle it, but from reading the comments here, it's not like previous generations where there's a free base character. You have to spend money to even try it. Is that right? Mine stupid marketing.

If I understood correctly, I have no idea how much content will work. And my renders almost all need very high heels, which mostly come from other sites, but Daz doesn't ever worry about backwards compatibility of heels, so first, I need to buy them all again, except what will I buy? I can't adopt this until I have a wide selection of high heels that work. And if only people that spend money get G9, will other content creators support it in the way they support G8.x?

i also use morphs extensively. If the base mesh has more geometry, that's good news, although I assume only a privileged few can make HD morphs. Can I finally make pressure morphs for tight clothing? I assume I don't know without spending money because there is no Genesis 9.

So my feeling is it's great technology spoiled by greedy marketing. And ignoring heels again.

It was mentioned on the stream that it'll work like the other generations, where you have to buy Victoria but there's free base G9 content. If it's like 8.1, probably any "optional" features beyond the base functionality of the figure (like 8k textures) will come with Victoria 9. 

Victoria 9 promos remind me so much of actress Juliene Moore.
Julianne Moore – Google Suche

bluejaunte said:

Hotaru0124_071fd6e4c1 said:

I already can't use more than a couple G8's in my scenes unless they are extremely bare bones; not even going to consider G9 until they allow Iray to use system RAM. 

If it's about the poly count, keep in mind that separate eyes and mouth help a bit with that. Previously, if you rendered at higher subdiv levels, the eyes and especially the mouth would get subdivided too and add a lot of useless polygons. This is no longer the case, you can now subdivide a character and just the skin parts (plus nails I guess) will get subdivided while eyes and mouth remain low poly.

Also don't forget, with a higher poly base mesh it doesn't automatically mean that an HD character will have more polys. You could in theory now simply sculpt on a lower subdiv level for the same detail. So the end result might not even have more polys at all. Say if a PA previously had to sculpt on sd level 4, because the base is about twice as dense now they could achieve the same level of detail at sd level 2.

Obviously we might instead just make use of the additional detail. But you can always set at what sd level you wanna render at so... I don't know why it would be an issue. You had a couple of G8 characters rendering at sd2, just set the same number of G9 ones to sd1. Problem solved. Due to separate eyes and mouth you probably then have LESS overall polygons.

If it's about 8k textures, downscale them to 4k if need be.  One 8k is like 4x 4k maps, so that is a lot but then again comparing this to some environments, is it really so bad?

I don't think this is (just) about rendering, but also how many figues you can fit in your scene for posing etc., before rendering. For me, personally, my system will slow down considerably beyond, like, 4 figures. Which is already challenging.

----

I generally don't think "just scale down all the textures in IrfanView" or "just edit the sculpt in ZBrush" is really that big an argument. A lot of DAZ success - in my opinion - is a matter of convenience. It's relatively simple to buy and install, their content loads and works (often) well out of the box. If I have to to edit a figure in 2 different way using several other pieces of software or AddOns - I'm just using a different figure. It's not like - to me, at least so far - Victoria 9 looks particularly good. If you told me this is Maelwenn's or Bluejaunte's next release for Genesis 8 I would believe you without a second thought.

I'm sure Gen9 does a few things better, but none of the proposed features so far is really much of a leap. I'm including the unfied mesh here, because we have been here before. It certainly doesn't give me much hope for the future, considering how much I hated the general look of Genesis 1 characters and clothes.

So I'm kind of doubtful how necessary this switch really is.

It is nice, though, to see DAZ adept even more cool marketing staples of the video game industry, aka the best industry. Preorders are my favorite.

Pendraia said:

kyoto kid said:

Blando Calrissian said:

fred9803 said:

I missed a bit. Anything about clothing compatability yet?

From what I am reading from PAs in the chat box, clothing will need conversion (will likely auto-convert as Gen 3 does to Gen 8)

Edit: Jay indicates that it could be "hit or miss"...

...I get the feeling it will be more "miss" than "hit".  I have the G8 to G3 clothing converter and it doesn't always do so well.  In one clothing set I could only get the boots and T-shirt to convert, the rest of the items wouldn't. even doing each individually.  I stick to fitted clothing as dForce just takes way to long on my old gear to run a sim.

I convert a lot of items for my own use and my favourite way of doing it is to send it to a modeller and adjust to fit in the modeller. I send it over without fitting to. While it's in the modeller I fit the garment to character I'm doing it for and then when I send back the item from the modeller I either update the mesh or send it as a morph. This method gives me the least distortion of the clothing and the best fit for the character.

...unfortunately my modelling skill is nothing to write home about, particularly for dealing with "soft" surface meshes. I'd need some form of conversion script or utility and even those are not 100%. 

Mada said:

fred9803 said:

Kainjy said:

G8 materials are compatibles ?
Poses, Clothing/Hair and morphs no.. but materials ? 

No, previous textures won't work. 

 G8 clothing will fit G9 with autofit - same as always. High heel shoes won't, same as before. I keep on seeing posts that it won't work. Yes it will lol

...so clothing content for older figures prior to G8 (which is the majority of my clothing content as I don't use dForce) won't work?

Richard Haseltine said:

caravelle said:

I have seen Windows logos in the background now and then. Does this mean that Genesis 9 only works on Windows machines? That would be terrible. I just pre-ordered Victoria 9, but if it doesn't work on my Mac, I'll have to cancel that.

And I didn't find the link for the freebie because the chat was blocked (??). It would be nice if Daz would post this link again.

It's content, it's just that those people were suing Windows machines 9and probably needed them to show redners quickly enough for the stream).

....I noticed one of them was for Windows 7.  

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

I'm fully aware of that, and have quite a lot of G8 content myself. I still had no expectation that all my G8 content would work in the next generation.

But many myself included have more than that. Such as having Victoria 4/Michael 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content, I would think that many are not expecting to go back too far. But being able to use at least some Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content on Genesis 9 would be nice.

Not to mention Millenium 3 and 2 figures...I worked out recently I've been doing this 2005 which means I'm up to 17 years and my runtime reflects this. That said many have been doing this since Poser began...

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

I'm fully aware of that, and have quite a lot of G8 content myself. I still had no expectation that all my G8 content would work in the next generation.

But many myself included have more than that. Such as having Victoria 4/Michael 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content, I would think that many are not expecting to go back too far. Being able to use at least some Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content on Genesis 9 would be nice.

Well, you CAN use at least some G3 and G8 content on G9. There's an included pose converter, and G9 has autofit clones for at least G8. Let me be more clear about the rest: I don't fault anybody for WANTING backwards compatibility. I would like as much backwards compatibility as reasonably possible. However, I also understand that there are technical limitations to compatibility, and I don't want backwards compatibility at the cost of innovation. As I said earlier in the thread, G9 can either be a significant improvement over G8, or it can be fully compatible with G8 content, but it can't be both.

Can understand that, and true on the technical limitations will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Seeing as there will be a built in pose converter, then that has my interest peaked indeed.

I don't remember Jay saying that the pose converter would be included - only that ManFriday was working on one. I'm gonna assume (and probably correctly) that that would be a separate purchase. So don't get your hopes up...

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

I'm fully aware of that, and have quite a lot of G8 content myself. I still had no expectation that all my G8 content would work in the next generation.

But many myself included have more than that. Such as having Victoria 4/Michael 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content, I would think that many are not expecting to go back too far. Being able to use at least some Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content on Genesis 9 would be nice.

Well, you CAN use at least some G3 and G8 content on G9. There's an included pose converter, and G9 has autofit clones for at least G8. Let me be more clear about the rest: I don't fault anybody for WANTING backwards compatibility. I would like as much backwards compatibility as reasonably possible. However, I also understand that there are technical limitations to compatibility, and I don't want backwards compatibility at the cost of innovation. As I said earlier in the thread, G9 can either be a significant improvement over G8, or it can be fully compatible with G8 content, but it can't be both.

Can understand that, and true on the technical limitations will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Seeing as there will be a built in pose converter, then that has my interest peaked indeed.

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

I'm fully aware of that, and have quite a lot of G8 content myself. I still had no expectation that all my G8 content would work in the next generation.

But many myself included have more than that. Such as having Victoria 4/Michael 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content, I would think that many are not expecting to go back too far. Being able to use at least some Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content on Genesis 9 would be nice.

Well, you CAN use at least some G3 and G8 content on G9. There's an included pose converter, and G9 has autofit clones for at least G8. Let me be more clear about the rest: I don't fault anybody for WANTING backwards compatibility. I would like as much backwards compatibility as reasonably possible. However, I also understand that there are technical limitations to compatibility, and I don't want backwards compatibility at the cost of innovation. As I said earlier in the thread, G9 can either be a significant improvement over G8, or it can be fully compatible with G8 content, but it can't be both.

Looking at the bundle page https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-9-pre-sale-bundle I had to wonder about the fourth image..  lol

Gordig said:

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

I'm fully aware of that, and have quite a lot of G8 content myself. I still had no expectation that all my G8 content would work in the next generation.

But many myself included have more than that. Such as having Victoria 4/Michael 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content, I would think that many are not expecting to go back too far. But being able to use at least some Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 content on Genesis 9 would be nice.