Another great use for Filament is the setting up of a scene, preparing to test a character or product and the switching to Iray for the final render. Jay Versluis has a great tutorial on this. I loved it when I had only my Windows computers and felt cramped up when I got my MacBook Pro and then the Mac Mini M4 Pro. But with DS6, I have it back. It is not just for toons.

inquire said:

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

I think we did discuss this back in the old thread, and I did suggest checking the store out to see what Filament products there are and how they look when used properly.

As Richard said, Filament isn't designed to be a high-end rendering engine but one that's lightweight enough to be used for mobile and games and such. It's not as photorealistic as NVIDIA, it's slightly stylized. That said, it's capable of some excellent renders (as shown by some of the store products), it's extremely fast and lightweight, and as you're aware now has Filatoon; all this, for the type of work I do, makes it an excellent replacement for most of what 3Delight and OpenGL used to provide.  

The ever-helpful Leana provided links to threads for Trek-modeller extrordinaire rduda on Filatoon, both excellent theads:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/9193591/#Comment_9193591

And Mec4d supplies some excellent information on shaders for Filament here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/445567/filament-tutorials-shaders-lights/p1

inquire said:

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

Filament isn'ty intended as a full render engine, using Metal doesn't automatically change that.

News to me. Thank you. I just looked at the examples for the ads and the products in the DAZ Shop. I didn't think that filament looked as good as the Nvidia vendors look.

inquire said:

Well, I really feel that we should have more updates from DAZ3D. They should tell us Whether or not, they are making progress and developing an Apple Silicon version of DS.

Also, at WWDC, There is an indication that Apple will help companies incorporate Apple Intelligence into their apps. It would be great if DAZ Made an Apple version of DS And included Apple Intelligence in it. It would be super if DAZ Included Apple Metal In it. Someone could write a translation version from Nvidia shaders to metal shaders. I would really like to experiment with that.
I think filament is a poor alternative to the nVidia Rendering.

Filament in DS 6 / 2025 is based on Metal on macOS.
The Viewport is also based on Metal on macOS.
 
Check profiler under Activity Monitor:
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/MacOS/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer
/private/var/db/oah/ea72064422e54f697b7431461ee92103a0179fc81d9631db29c3a82d0a133dba/ec3eef5a240e192d228a24d5e25638b901834cf1350d9d66c250b493a94b4b6d/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.aot
/System/Library/Extensions/AGXMetalG13X.bundle/Contents/Resources/ds.g13s
/System/Library/Extensions/AGXMetalG13X.bundle/Contents/MacOS/AGXMetalG13X
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/Resources/default.metallib
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMetalOpenGLRenderer.bundle/Contents/Resources/PixelConverter.metallib

Well, I really feel that we should have more updates from DAZ3D. They should tell us Whether or not, they are making progress and developing an Apple Silicon version of DS.

Also, at WWDC, There is an indication that Apple will help companies incorporate Apple Intelligence into their apps. It would be great if DAZ Made an Apple version of DS And included Apple Intelligence in it. It would be super if DAZ Included Apple Metal In it. Someone could write a translation version from Nvidia shaders to metal shaders. I would really like to experiment with that.
I think filament is a poor alternative to the nVidia Rendering.

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

 Thanks I didn't know Win11 had a built-in screen capture. I'll play with that and see if I can record my first video with it.

 

Yea, It's 2025 ALPHA, the most recent version of it.

Also using the most recent Nvidia driver.

Once a week I go through all my hadware drivers and make sure they are all updated.

Usually Tuesdays becasue thats when my favorite video game is down for maintenance, so I have a few hours to comb through  all the update websites and apps.

I only have the 3060 for graphics, no secondary cards of any kind

I don't get lag in the beta nor the release version either.

I don't leave USB devices plugged in when I'm not using them. i.e. headphones,  colormeter for Display color tuning, things like that.

I have Studio set to use only 14 of the 16 cores of my CPU so I can browse the web in Chrome or Firefox while I work on scenes in Studio.

I also have the CPU boxes unchecks in Render Settings>Hardware.

All 3 of them unchecked,

Hence why I have the sysmem option enabled in the Nvidia control panel.

If that is causing me a problem I've not noticed it yet and like I posted earlier, I have scenes that will consume over 11GB of the 12GB GPU VRAM and 80GB of system RAM. Sure they take a long time to render on my system, but according to GPUZ it's using the GPU for something.

Cool, looking forward to your video. I still don’t really understand what’s causing the lag, but if there really are cases where it doesn’t lag, then maybe adjusting some settings could fix the problem. Until Daz officially fixes it, I’ll keep experimenting and pushing the bar around. 

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

 Thanks I didn't know Win11 had a built-in screen capture. I'll play with that and see if I can record my first video with it.

Yea, It's 2025 ALPHA, the most recent version of it.

Also using the most recent Nvidia driver.

Once a week I go through all my hadware drivers and make sure they are all updated.

Usually Tuesdays becasue thats when my favorite video game is down for maintenance, so I have a few hours to comb through  all the update websites and apps.

I only have the 3060 for graphics, no secondary cards of any kind

I don't get lag in the beta nor the release version either.

I don't leave USB devices plugged in when I'm not using them. i.e. headphones,  colormeter for Display color tuning, things like that.

I have Studio set to use only 14 of the 16 cores of my CPU so I can browse the web in Chrome or Firefox while I work on scenes in Studio.

I also have the CPU boxes unchecks in Render Settings>Hardware.

All 3 of them unchecked,

Hence why I have the sysmem option enabled in the Nvidia control panel.

If that is causing me a problem I've not noticed it yet and like I posted earlier, I have scenes that will consume over 11GB of the 12GB GPU VRAM and 80GB of system RAM. Sure they take a long time to render on my system, but according to GPUZ it's using the GPU for something.

IceCrMn said:

NamelessxPeasant said:

IceCrMn said:

I have yet to hear someone say they don't have lag with it.

I'm not getting the lag

I have scenes that use 80+GB of system ram and I'm still not seeing the lag.

I do have the "sysmem" feature enabled in the driver on the "Nvidia Control Panel".

Maybe that's the difference?

On the Nvidia Control Panel...

Left Column click "Manage 3d Settings"

On the right scroll down the settings anf find...

"Cuda - Sysmem Fallback Policy" "Prefer Sysmem Fallback"

Try with this.

Remeber to restart Studio  after you make changes or they won't apply properly.

I tried your method, but the lag issue doesn’t seem to have improved, at least not noticeably.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by a scene with 80+ GB of system ram. If possible, could you try placing 10 Genesis 8 characters in a scene? The more objects in the scene, the better. It would be great if you could record a video as well.

I feel like people reporting no lag are simply using scenes that are too small. If I only place one character, I don’t notice any lag either.

I don't have any screen capture software so I can't get you a video. I can however install one if you have a  good free recommendation. That's something I don't normally use so never really looked for one.

 

I have tried with 10 fully clothed G8F all with hair and I'm still not seeing the lag.

If I turn on the Iray preview I can slow it down a little bit, but not so much it's not usable.

I don't normally work with the iray preview running either. I normally work in texture shaded mode.

Is that the difference? Are all of you trying to work with the iray preview running?

My system isn't anything special. 128GB of system ram, AMD Ryzen 7 3800xt, RTX 3060 12GB. 3 NVME drives ranging in size from 220GB to 2TB and a 4TB Western Digital "My Book" USB drive I store all of my content on.

Now yea, I can put products that aren't very well optimized into a scene and slow it down, and I can OOM my system.I've done both plenty of times.

I can't recall which one it is at the moment but I have a dforce hair product that can consume all the ram I can throw at it , and I have a pair of boots for G8F that can actually crash the iray preview.

 

I'll try to hunt those down in a bit, I just woke up and need coffee :)

I’m not using screen recording software either; I’m using the built-in Windows feature. For Windows 11, you can press Print Screen and switch to recording mode. For Windows 10, Windows key + G also works for screen recording.

It’s expected that Iray preview would lag, but my viewport lag happens even with Filament or Texture Shaded modes.
Hmm... if you can load ten G8 characters without lag, then it’s probably true. So, what’s the secret? (By the way, this might be a silly question, but you’re definitely using Daz 2025, right?)

I have a viewport lag, but only with Iray as a preview.
Texture shaded and Filament work fine.

I think that's only an OpenGL limit 

and Filament 

iray and 3Delight should render all your spotlights 

Richard Haseltine said:

It is Iray causiing the issue, dos the scene load if you use Texture Shaded drawstyle (or Filament)? If so try saving each figure or prop set out into its own scene and see if they will load and render/preview in Iray on their own

Yes, the scene has 8 characters (Before I could render scenes with that number without any problem), and in the image there were only 2 characters appearing, when I tried to render, there was a problem, so I deleted the 6 other characters that do not appear in the scene, and left only the 2, and it rendered without problems, another scene of mine, with other characters, also has about 7 characters, had the same problem, when I go to render, the studio gives the same warning, it seems that this problem happens when there are many characters... Which I can't understand very well, since I've made scenes with even more characters before, and I didn't have this problem...

It is Iray causiing the issue, dos the scene load if you use Texture Shaded drawstyle (or Filament)? If so try saving each figure or prop set out into its own scene and see if they will load and render/preview in Iray on their own

barbult said:

The best thing I ever bought from bluejainte is BJ Camera Manager Plugin. I use it for every scene I ever create. I can't say that about any character. I highly recommend the camera manager.

FACTS! I use it all the time! I run my main viewport in texture shaded or filament, and my Aux in Iray, but just having the toggles (backtick and semi-colon) for both Aux VP and Iray preview has saved me so much time... And that's just 2 of the (for me most-used) options!

Leana said:

There are two big threads on FilaToon with lots of tips: 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704951/anime-toons-and-filatoon-shader-q-a/p1

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704931/filatoon-cell-shaded-rendering-with-filament/p1

Perfect!! Thank you!!!

There are two big threads on FilaToon with lots of tips: 

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704951/anime-toons-and-filatoon-shader-q-a/p1

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/704931/filatoon-cell-shaded-rendering-with-filament/p1

Imago said:

In 4.21 if I duplicate something, Primitive from DAZ or imported OBJ, they gets their own materials and stuff and I can alter them as much as I want.

What I'm doing extra to make DAZ Studio think I want the duplicated props to perfectly share any changes to any of the duplicates?

They use the same geometry by design, to reduce the memory consumed.

I think you can try by yourself: Just create a sphere and then duplicate it a couple of time using the "duplicate node" command under the Edit menu. Scatter the props around the scene to see them. Then using the Geometry Editor select a portion of the surface of one the duplicated spheres and create a new Surface-> create from selected from the Assignment menu. The Original prop and all the other duplicated spheres will get the same change... Even worse! The selected part are REMOVED, like when using the "Delete selected" from the editing menu, in some of the props.

The removal (actually not-displaying) is a bug, which is being fixed - though if you ave and reload the scene they will all update and display the changes to the geometry. A future build (of DS 2025, new features are for the new version now it is in the process of emerging) will give the option to break the link when creating duplicates, though the default will still be to conserve resources by pointing to a common data set.

Please try this and see if it happens to you too.

And since I'm here, I need to ask: How can I save the selection of Filament drawstyle when saving the scene? Everytime I save a scene with Filament selected and reload it, it reverts again to Texture Shaded, this makes impossible to batch render Filament scenes.

DrawStyle is not saved to the scene file, it is saved to the layout. You could use a Post Load data item script, like http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start#post-load_data_items , to set the drawstyle(s) on loading a scene.

In 4.21 if I duplicate something, Primitive from DAZ or imported OBJ, they gets their own materials and stuff and I can alter them as much as I want.

What I'm doing extra to make DAZ Studio think I want the duplicated props to perfectly share any changes to any of the duplicates?

I think you can try by yourself: Just create a sphere and then duplicate it a couple of time using the "duplicate node" command under the Edit menu. Scatter the props around the scene to see them. Then using the Geometry Editor select a portion of the surface of one the duplicated spheres and create a new Surface-> create from selected from the Assignment menu. The Original prop and all the other duplicated spheres will get the same change... Even worse! The selected part are REMOVED, like when using the "Delete selected" from the editing menu, in some of the props.

Please try this and see if it happens to you too.

And since I'm here, I need to ask: How can I save the selection of Filament drawstyle when saving the scene? Everytime I save a scene with Filament selected and reload it, it reverts again to Texture Shaded, this makes impossible to batch render Filament scenes.

Anyone knows if there's a way to obtain sharp shadows like the ones in the picture I posted using Filament and especially with Filatoon shaders?

Just stopping by to say that I tried the product mentioned in the other thread and I couldn't get it to work, even though one of the promo images (dude with reflection in glasses) makes it seem like it should work.