margrave said:

A) You're using Filament, which generally looks hideous and blown-out.

B) Nobody will be able to tell what your figure looks like because the mods are going to delete it for showing nudity.

B) lol for real? I can't post Daz models? dang

Anyways, thanks for solving the problem! Now to solve the crashing problem...

In the top of the viewport to the left of perspective view, it shows that you are in filament. If you click that icon you can instead select Texture shaded.

Filament is a realtime renderer, and you can also keep that and instead create a filament draw options and reduce environment intensity.

A) You're using Filament, which generally looks hideous and blown-out.

B) Nobody will be able to tell what your figure looks like because the mods are going to delete it for showing nudity.

IceCrMn said:

the intel graphics means no GPU acceleration, so it's CPU only for that setup.At 1.5Ghz it's going to be slow going to render anything.

Yes, the CPU clock speed.Being under the minimum just to run the program and still needing more cycles to run everything else doesn't bode well for success.

 

Slower rendering for sure, but I don't think it should be crashing with a single character loaded. I have a MacBook Air running Windows 10 with my RAM shared down to 8 gigabytes and I'm able to render multiple characters and a room scene using Filament without issue; my processor is a 1.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel i7, and no GPU but no problems.

-- Walt Sterdan 

Switching between texture and filament views.

Yes, serial number entered, OK-Button but no confirm, and filament stays inactive.

DAZ info shows Version 4.15.0.2 Pro Edition (64bit) including my account name.

Andreaswb said:

Hi Leana,

I'm one of those "normal" Win7 pro 64bit users.
Sorry, forgot to tell.

Allthough I haven't tried the filament. I still see the options on my W7 Ultimate+DS 4.15 

What does that have to do with Mac users still ending up with an inferior product?

I really shouldn't reply to rage baiting, but just this once.

Mac users don't get an inferior product compared to Windows users, period. Once Filament is supported, they will get the same product. 

A hi-end Mac will render iRay faster than a low-end PC without an NVidea card; that doesn't make the Windows version "inferior" to the Mac version, so if a Mac system renders it slower than an NVidea-enabled PC, it's still not an inferior version of D|S.

DAZ alone knows how much profit it makes from Mac users; if they decide that the cost of supporting Mac outweighs that profit, it would be a good business decision on their part to discontue Mac support. It hasn't happened yet, but it might, but if it does it will be for that reason, not because you don't think it's a good idea.

If a Mac user decides that they need more speed and don't want to export to C4D and use Redshitt to GPU render, or Ocxtane, or Blender, or use a cloud-based render farm to speed things up,  they can always buy a Windows machine; many have, and many haven't, but if they do they'll base it on their needs and their financial situation, not because you tell them they have to. I honestly can't see your opinions on the matter making any difference at all.

As someone who has removed DAZ Studio from their Mac and hasn't yet purchased a new Windows machine (based on your earlier posts), I'm at a loss to see why you feel the need to make these posts. 

I'm pretty much done with this now, I hope you can get the attention you seem to so sorely need. Good luck with your future endeavours.

-- Walt Sterdan

Are you using a Mac? Filament is only in the Windows version for now.

Hi,

although there was the big announcement about Filament with DAZ 4.15, I can't find it.
Your advertisement suggests, that filament render is included.

But there isn't any in the render engine selection and the Filament entry for the workspace render is disabled.

Why doesn't the advertisement fit to the real product?

What additional components to purchse?

jee said:

Krzysztofa said:

The issues causing the mac version to no longer work will catch up with the windows version eventually. DS is a cross-platform application, its not like they're maintaining two separate programs. It's the same program at its core. The QT upgrade is sorely needed, I recall reading that DS is on either QT 3 or 4, which are both ancient in terms of software (we're talking windows XP days). If we ever want to see DS get modernized and more performant, the QT upgrade is needed.

You might be correct about QT. However you failed to mention the Iray issue. DAZ Studio is heavily crippled on macOS due to the DAZ mainly using Nvidia's Iray. The majority of Mac users are forced to resort to software rendering. And that is a problem.

So to say that DS is cross-platform is techically true, but it's a bit misleading, as it gives the impression that performance is smililar on both platforms. It's not. One platform is heavily crippled, due to a decision to go with Iray years and years go.

Unless the DS development teams incorporates a platform-agnostic hardware renderer that equals or is better than Iray (Filament doesn't count), then clearly they should just scrap the Mac version at this point. Why bother developing a Mac version that will always be crippled compared to Windows, especially when the Mac userbase is much smaller as well?

I honestly don't know why the DS team are still supporting the Mac at this point. The DS Mac userbase is much smaller compared to Windows, and the Mac version is heavily crippled when it comes to rendering. So it makes more logical sense to just axe it. I mean, the DS team are working their asses off getting it Big Sur (and eventually M1) compatible, and for what? Just so that BIg Sur users can once again be reminded of how much better a PC is for rendering? What a joke.

For all you Mac owners out there (like me) that uses DS, and want to work with 3D. Get a PC. It's that simple. Even when DS is fully Big Sur and M1 compatible, you'll still end up with a sub-par experience compared to DS on Windows. So what's the point?

There are a fair number of Mac users who, fortunately, aren't like you.

It's true that it's almost like there's two DAZ Studios at times, but it's not a Windows version and a Mac version; I prefer to think of it as DAZ Studio and iRay Studio (or "NVidea Studio")..

DAZ Studio wss designed to allow users to use DAZ content to make 3D images. To run DAZ Studio, you need a computer (Mac or PC), some hard drive space and some RAM. If you're like me, who still does his 3D rendering on a 2012 iMac, you'll need at leats a 4 terabyte drive just to hold your content... actually 5 terabytes is my current library drive. DAZ Studio comes with multiple rendering engines built in (and others available externally), including a very popular one for those who want or need photorealism, iRay, but we can't forget those other rendreing engines, all of which are just as good or even better at tasks other than photorealism.

iRay Studio is very similar; it also works on computers (Mac or PC) but runs iRay faster on *some* PCs than on Macs; it doeesn't render better quality with an NVidea card, just faster. If you have a high-end Radion video card that has lots of VRAM and cost over a $1,000, well, you might as well have a Mac because you don't have an iray Studio system, you have a DAZ Studio system.

You can't tell a Mac user to just buy a PC, what you have to tell them is to buy a really, really good NVidea card and some sort of computer system to support it. If you're running a high-end NVidea card, the PC is secondary.

Many Mac users have either switched to Windows machines to work in iRay Studio or purchased a Windows machine to let them work on Mac but render on Windows. Slow iRay rendering isn't new, and the options have always been there. If a Mac user wants to render in iRay, they can, if they want or need to do it quickly, then they have the Windows option.

But what happens when your PC isn't fast enough, where do you go? When you want to make your benders bigger, better, or just plain have so much in them that it's more than your VRAM can hold? What? Your expensive NVIdea card tells iRay Studio to go CPU? You mean it becomes as slow as a.. gulp... Mac? Horrors.

I'm not an iRay Studio guy, and I'm just fine with 3DL, OpenGL and Filament. I've been using Filament for a while and I'm really, really looking forward to it coming to the Mac, and I'm sure it will. I suspect there are others who feel the same, especialy if they're playing with animation.

So, "iRay Studio" is "crippled" for Mac users, and for Windows users who can't afford to keep up their NVidea upgrades but *only* if they're hooked on iRay. Otherwise they can probably run DAZ Studio just fine.

Should DAZ keep supporting Mac? I hope so, but if they don't, I'm cool too. After looking over my Poser/DAZ purchases over the last 25 years (I still have my first Poser beta diskette buried somewhere) and my other pre-Poser 3D software (Infini-D, Macromedia 3D, etc.) I see I've spent almost $100,000 in total. YIkes. Never look back at your purchase list. I can probably keep using my older Macs to play in the DAZ Studio without upgrading or buying new content until I die just fine... or go back to programming gmaes for fun, drawing or 3D sculpting on my iPad, etc.

But, again, your question was *should they?*.

To answer that, we'd have to know DAZ's sales breakdown. Is the Mac platform worth it? I don't honestly know. We hear constantly how much smaller the Mac group is, but how do profits compare? Is it possible that the average Mac user spends much more than the average PC users? They do in the mobile app stores (almost 50% more last time I checked), but even if they do, is it enough?

I've slowed down my purchases a lot, not becaue I'm not an iRay guy (I still buy a lot of iRay stuff as it's all still useable without iRay, and even more so with Filament for me) and I still give DAZ thousands a year. Heck, I've spent hundreds in the last few weeks on $1.99 purchases.

An interestng thought: if there are a dozen Mac customers like me, just a dozen, what could DAZ do with *just* the profits we supply them year after year? Keep developing for Mac, making all other profits from Mac users money that doesn't need to go to development?

Another interesting thought: we know that all of the software development comes from their three-man team. Could they use some of the Mac profit to, I don't know, hire another programmer? Imagine what a four-man team could do... or even a five-man team!

I mean, someone's gotta start working on Windows 11, right? Newer, more powerful NVidea card support?

Regardless of whether you're Mac or PC, there are times when iRay will "cripple" our system. If a Mac user should turf their Mac because it's "crippled" running iRay (still works, mind you, just more slowly, roughly as fast as a Windows user whose system drops back to CPU), what should a Windows user do when their system can't cut it? Give up?

As mentioned, I'm still using a 2012 iMac for DAZ Studio (I have a much faster iMac, but that's for work only, DAZ Studio is on my "fun" machine) and amazingly it can run newer Mac OSs than DAZ Studio can run on, but I've "throttled" it to Mojave just for the 32-bit lip synch, and it runs just as fast and renders just as fast as it did back in 2012. It's almost as fast as a much newer Windows machine with a high-end graphics card (oops, "NVidea" card) when it comes to OpenGL and Filament.

I guess "the point" that you're asking about is simply this: it's not *all* about iRay. There was DAZ Studio before there was an iRay, and it's still doing what it did back then, pretty much better, and once they support Big Sur and Filament on a Mac, even better!

Once iRay's not "the point", then why switch? 

One more thing: "The DS Mac userbase is much smaller compared to Windows, and the Mac version is heavily crippled when it comes to rendering. So it makes more logical sense to just axe it." -- this "much smaller userbase" also refers to the Windows users who don't own a hight-end NVidea card... should DAZ just "axe" them too? Maybe make a true NVidea Studio, free of 3DL an OpenGL?  That much less time and resources supporting users who aren't really important anymore...?

-- Walt Sterdan

Krzysztofa said:

The issues causing the mac version to no longer work will catch up with the windows version eventually. DS is a cross-platform application, its not like they're maintaining two separate programs. It's the same program at its core. The QT upgrade is sorely needed, I recall reading that DS is on either QT 3 or 4, which are both ancient in terms of software (we're talking windows XP days). If we ever want to see DS get modernized and more performant, the QT upgrade is needed.

You might be correct about QT. However you failed to mention the Iray issue. DAZ Studio is heavily crippled on macOS due to the DAZ mainly using Nvidia's Iray. The majority of Mac users are forced to resort to software rendering. And that is a problem.

So to say that DS is cross-platform is techically true, but it's a bit misleading, as it gives the impression that performance is smililar on both platforms. It's not. One platform is heavily crippled, due to a decision to go with Iray years and years go.

Unless the DS development teams incorporates a platform-agnostic hardware renderer that equals or is better than Iray (Filament doesn't count), then clearly they should just scrap the Mac version at this point. Why bother developing a Mac version that will always be crippled compared to Windows, especially when the Mac userbase is much smaller as well?

I honestly don't know why the DS team are still supporting the Mac at this point. The DS Mac userbase is much smaller compared to Windows, and the Mac version is heavily crippled when it comes to rendering. So it makes more logical sense to just axe it. I mean, the DS team are working their asses off getting it Big Sur (and eventually M1) compatible, and for what? Just so that BIg Sur users can once again be reminded of how much better a PC is for rendering? What a joke.

For all you Mac owners out there (like me) that uses DS, and want to work with 3D. Get a PC. It's that simple. Even when DS is fully Big Sur and M1 compatible, you'll still end up with a sub-par experience compared to DS on Windows. The devs need to ditch Iray, otherwise what's the point?

jee said:

At this point, my opinion is that the DAZ team would be better off by abandoning the Mac completely. DAZ 3D doesn't have that big a development team, and updating the QT library for both Win and Mac just to achieve Big Sur compatibility just seems silly to me. And it will affect Windows users negatively, unecessarily so. Also, that's not even taking into account M1 compatibility, which will introduce a new set of hurdles to overcome. And for what? A lacluster version of DAZ Studio on macOS that can't even use hardware Iray rendering?

All that hard work, just to get an inferior product (Iray) compared to Windows.

To my understanding, Filament comes nowhere close to the render quality of Iray, so the truth is that Mac owners will end up getting an inferor product, no matter which way you look at it, like they always have been getting since apple ditched Nvidia. So why bother?

TLDR: DAZ 3D should ditch the Mac version, and focus on making DAZ Studio the best it can be on Windows. It will simplify the process and save the development team a lot of headaches.

The issues causing the mac version to no longer work will catch up with the windows version eventually. DS is a cross-platform application, its not like they're maintaining two separate programs. It's the same program at its core. The QT upgrade is sorely needed, I recall reading that DS is on either QT 3 or 4, which are both ancient in terms of software (we're talking windows XP days). If we ever want to see DS get modernized and more performant, the QT upgrade is needed.

At this point, my opinion is that the DAZ team would be better off by abandoning the Mac completely. DAZ 3D doesn't have that big a development team, and updating the QT library for both Win and Mac just to achieve Big Sur compatibility just seems silly to me. And it will affect Windows users negatively, unecessarily so. Also, that's not even taking into account M1 compatibility, which will introduce a new set of hurdles to overcome. And for what? A lacluster version of DAZ Studio on macOS that can't even use hardware Iray rendering?

All that hard work, just to get an inferior product (Iray) compared to Windows.

To my understanding, Filament comes nowhere close to the render quality of Iray, so the truth is that Mac owners will end up getting an inferor product, no matter which way you look at it, like they always have been getting since Apple ditched Nvidia. So why bother?

TLDR: DAZ 3D should ditch the Mac version, and focus on making DAZ Studio the best it can be on Windows. It will simplify the process and save the development team a lot of headaches.

Cenobite said:

Animations run really slow even on high end pc's, your right but something isn't right, every animation i've bought is pointless in daz3d, better used in Unreal 4 engine moving the keyframe that works into that editor because it's just too heavy in any mode in daz3d except maybe filament where assets are a little lighter.

I bought a tutorial once in DAZ store and it was one of the worst purchase I ever done. Got my money back and still felt robbed !

MelanieL said:

SHN said:

MelanieL said:

Sounds like you are doing an Iray render? That set was for 3Delight and may have special shaders that only work with 3Delight. The 360 prop you mention is probably blocking the light too, hence the black renders. (I don't have the product so I can't with diagnosing the missing file error)

I am using IRay. I didn't see 3Delight anywhere on the product page nor in the product pdf, but the missing file error occurs even in filament and other modes before rendering ever takes place so I doubt thats the main issue. 

The chess set has SKU:17961, which is well before Iray was introduced - on these older products the render engine was not mentioned becaus there was only (effectively) one in Daz Studio. Try a 3Delight render and see if that helps with the appearance of the chess pieces - although like you I don't see that the missing file error would go away. 

ETA: I just looked at the product ReadMe and it seems that the file is installed here:

/data/Arty_Doc/Glass Chess Set/360 Reflection/UV Sets/Glass Chess Set/Base/default.dsf

Is this where you found it? If so then the load preset for the 360 prop seems to have a typo in it. You'll need to raise a support ticket to get it fixed. 

I tried a 3Delight render and still have the issue. That is the location for the file for me. Thank you all for the help! I will raise a support ticket for this issue

SHN said:

MelanieL said:

Sounds like you are doing an Iray render? That set was for 3Delight and may have special shaders that only work with 3Delight. The 360 prop you mention is probably blocking the light too, hence the black renders. (I don't have the product so I can't with diagnosing the missing file error)

I am using IRay. I didn't see 3Delight anywhere on the product page nor in the product pdf, but the missing file error occurs even in filament and other modes before rendering ever takes place so I doubt thats the main issue. 

The chess set has SKU:17961, which is well before Iray was introduced - on these older products the render engine was not mentioned becaus there was only (effectively) one in Daz Studio. Try a 3Delight render and see if that helps with the appearance of the chess pieces - although like you I don't see that the missing file error would go away. 

ETA: I just looked at the product ReadMe and it seems that the file is installed here:

/data/Arty_Doc/Glass Chess Set/360 Reflection/UV Sets/Glass Chess Set/Base/default.dsf

Is this where you found it? If so then the load preset for the 360 prop seems to have a typo in it. You'll need to raise a support ticket to get it fixed. 

MelanieL said:

Sounds like you are doing an Iray render? That set was for 3Delight and may have special shaders that only work with 3Delight. The 360 prop you mention is probably blocking the light too, hence the black renders. (I don't have the product so I can't with diagnosing the missing file error)

I am using IRay. I didn't see 3Delight anywhere on the product page nor in the product pdf, but the missing file error occurs even in filament and other modes before rendering ever takes place so I doubt thats the main issue. 

If speed is your main concern, it would be worth looking into the Filament renderer.