Does anyone know where is the filament plugin codes? I want to try to integrate my own custom render engine to daz3d but there is no sample code for this on the SDK.

Padone said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

yeah it might be wishful thinking on my behalf but iray didn't fare much better on the distorting

There isn't any refraction in your images. And iray of course supports full refraction. Refraction is when light bends inside glass, so you see distorted images looking trough.

Again, filament doesn't support refraction at all. As for eevee it gets some support for refraction but it's limited.

...3DL could henadl refraction (the girl in the foreground).  Took a a little research on refraction of various materials and some experimentation, but it worked.

This may be a bit of a reach but is there work being done to make Filament more resilient (i.e. transparency fixes, better reflections, soft shadows, etc..)? It won't replace Iray for obvious reasons but it makes a TON of sense to be used for scene prototyping and animations. 

Filament supports a lot of things but most of it is not plumbed in DAZ.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/442982/new-ds-filament-render-engine/p1

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/288661/show-us-your-iray-renders-part-vii

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/514336/show-us-more-of-your-3delight-renders

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/368721/octanerender-2019-for-daz-studio-new-free-tier/p1

we do have threads but only the iray one seems to stay on the first page in recent posts

the 3Delight one pops up regularly but not as often 

Padone said:

@Taoz As I suspected the FSL shaders don't fix the transmapped bug at all. If you try different colors for the strands in toulouse it shows better but it's already visible in your pictures. Thank you for providing this test.

No, there's probably no way to fix this using shaders.  Here's a few more FLS Toulouse Iray/Filament samples from a different angle.

I gave the FSL Hair Shaders a try, I think the Iray shaders are pretty good but I'm not too impressed with the Filament versions.  At least not with the hairs I've tried so far.

Attachment names tells what is what. Same lighting for all (Pro Studio HDR), Environment Intensity 1.0 for Iray, 0.25 for Filament.

Did some Gloss/Specular adjustments for the FSL Iray samples as they were too glossy IMO, maybe it has to do with the lighting used.

Richard Haseltine said:

Gordig said:

nonesuch00 said:

dForce or Strand-Based Hair (SBH) Fur will not render in 3DL, Scripted 3DL, Multipass-OpenGL, or Viewport (aka Filament (aka Viewport Render Engine dropdown selection + Filament (PBR) Drawstyle chosen in the actual viewport)) render engines or (maybe) in some iRay Preview situations depending on hardware and RAM. Fur will render in a full iRay render though, including the OSO Fox which I just rendered that way. 

That's not true at all. dForce hair will render in 3DL. You don't have as many surface settings in 3DL as you do in Iray, and I believe you can't use an image for creating varied coloring, but it will render. This is without even applying any 3DL shaders.

The original Garibaldi Express, from which the Strand Based Hair system derives, was pre-Iray.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I though those were just openGL placeholder strands because they were so flat looking.

Gordig said:

nonesuch00 said:

dForce or Strand-Based Hair (SBH) Fur will not render in 3DL, Scripted 3DL, Multipass-OpenGL, or Viewport (aka Filament (aka Viewport Render Engine dropdown selection + Filament (PBR) Drawstyle chosen in the actual viewport)) render engines or (maybe) in some iRay Preview situations depending on hardware and RAM. Fur will render in a full iRay render though, including the OSO Fox which I just rendered that way. 

That's not true at all. dForce hair will render in 3DL. You don't have as many surface settings in 3DL as you do in Iray, and I believe you can't use an image for creating varied coloring, but it will render. This is without even applying any 3DL shaders.

The original Garibaldi Express, from which the Strand Based Hair system derives, was pre-Iray.

Imago said:

Roberto said:

Salve a tutti, premetto che sono nuovo di Daz, ho provato a fare un rendering, a parte che ci ha messo 2 ore e passa a realizzarlo, alla fine mi sono trovato delle macchie bianche, da cosa possono essere state generate? Problemi di settaggio?
In allegato l'immagine.
My pc:
Intel i7, 2,60 GHz, 16 Gb Ram, scheda video GTX 1650 con 4GB ram

Benvenuto! 

Da quel che posso vedere, sembrerebbe una reflection map sbagliata. Vedo che quei riflessi corrispondono alle lentigini per cui direi che ci ho azzeccato. Prova a cambiare la reflection map nel tab Surfaces, poi scegli il viso e cerca "refl" nel quadro di ricerca in alto nel tab, prova a cambiare la texture con una diversa o abbassa il valore dello slider.
Oppure applica un nuovo set di materiali, sempre dal tab Surfaces->Prests->Feminine.

Quanto al tempo, hai usato IRay? E' normale, quel motore scassato richiede parecchio tempo, specie se hai una GPU poco potente.

La tua GPU è buona ma per IRay hai bisogno di schede High-End con parecchia VRAM altrimenti ci passi la vita con le scene grosse (e se le texture sono pesanti, nemmeno ci riesci), per questo io uso 3Delight, molto più veloce e affidabile. Diversamente puoi utilizzare Filament che usa i materiali di IRay ma è MOOOOOLTO più veloce. Richiede qualche accorgimento nel setup (le luci per esempio) ma i risultati sono piuttosto buoni, sebbene sia ancora ad uno stadio iniziale di implementazione.

Ciao Imago,ho settato un nuovo set di materiali ed ho risolto.
Grazie mille 

@MegonNoel Can you please post a picture of the toulouse hair with the FSL shaders in filament ? Possibly with the settings you used so we can see how nice they work. Personally I believe they don't work at all since uber presets can't fix a render engine issue. And filament just can't handle multiple layers of alpha maps thus the issue with transmapped hair.

edit. Just got another trick that you may like to be aware of. It seems that mipmapping generates seams on some textures, so better to leave it off.

Visuimag said:

Galaxy said:

Bendinggrass said:

Visuimag said:

Havos said:

PixelSploiting said:

 Well, I am not looking forward to Daz being good mainly for static bust/portrait renders with non-morphing static assets.

This level of realism is achieved with models and textures often made by this particular render. 

Any raytraced renderer can give this result when things are built for a single photo. It's never going to work with premade assets.

I agree with this completely. Comparing the two is rather meaningless.

Meaningless? No. Art forms can be compared even if the results won't be 1:1 to one another. It's a good enough barometer to use when guessing where things could be headed. Premade assets or not DAZ, with its current setup, isn't there. Whether it can be achieved or not remains to be seen, but I'm on the side of "yes". Did we hear anyone say it was meaningless to compare DAZ to MetaHumans? Well, no (at least not that I recall). All of it has its own look, sure, but the comparisons can be made as we're in the same medium with results familiar enough to the eye (maps, composition, lighting, situation). And those are game engine models. Here, we're at least comparing figures designed for offline.

 

@PixelSploiting: In regards to your second sentence, that's basically my point (although that's just part of it). "This particular render" (I'm guessing your talking about the engine) is something I wouldn't mind seeing DAZ go after. I believe Arnold would be a more expensive option, but there's more to it than Iray and I feel like that is one of the big reasons DAZ's renders still fall so short. Your artists could be as good (or better) than Spriggs, but if the tools he/she has to play with aren't quite up to the task, the result won't be as good. 

Now, I'm not saying I expect DAZ to adopt Arnold (though it would be absolutely lovely). Hell, I thought Octane was something they were going to add one day given the connection to DAZ, but when Iray hit the scene, I did what artists do; I played with the tools afforded to me (and greatly appreciated it). But, that was 2015. Things have changed and I'd just like to see, in addition to DAZ's native tools strengthening (ala DAZ 5), them adopt a more robust engine.

I am curious about this, in the sense of the huge amount of material, items, which have been produced for Iray. If a new/different render engine was introduced in DS, how would these items be used in the new engine, a conversion process built into DS? Or would it be a totally new set of otems for the new render engine? What are the most likely possibilities? 

Now the question is, if a new render engine can do something, when Iray can also do it, then why do we need a new render engine?

I mean, why did we need Filament? Iray worked just fine. :P 

In all seriousness, and for the sake of not taking this too far off course, it's not being suggested that there is a need for any other engine. The sentiment has always been that it will be nice when the tools mature, and for the few of us that would be happy with another [in addition] engine, it's fine if that doesn't happen. But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the option.

Well, then I will ask for Cycle because it is the render engine everything is possible with this engine. You have only CPU, it's okey, you have non cuda GPU, it's okey, you have legacy GPU, it's okey, your GPU vram is not sufficient, it's okey, you want denoising, a lot of options are there, you want denoising while using CPU only render, it can handle complex rendering easily and many-many other features.

Also Eevee is another render engine, it is an example of a high-quality realtime render engine. It is almost as excellent as Unreal Engine.

nonesuch00 said:

dForce or Strand-Based Hair (SBH) Fur will not render in 3DL, Scripted 3DL, Multipass-OpenGL, or Viewport (aka Filament (aka Viewport Render Engine dropdown selection + Filament (PBR) Drawstyle chosen in the actual viewport)) render engines or (maybe) in some iRay Preview situations depending on hardware and RAM. Fur will render in a full iRay render though, including the OSO Fox which I just rendered that way. 

That's not true at all. dForce hair will render in 3DL. You don't have as many surface settings in 3DL as you do in Iray, and I believe you can't use an image for creating varied coloring, but it will render. This is without even applying any 3DL shaders.

Galaxy said:

Bendinggrass said:

Visuimag said:

Havos said:

PixelSploiting said:

 Well, I am not looking forward to Daz being good mainly for static bust/portrait renders with non-morphing static assets.

This level of realism is achieved with models and textures often made by this particular render. 

Any raytraced renderer can give this result when things are built for a single photo. It's never going to work with premade assets.

I agree with this completely. Comparing the two is rather meaningless.

Meaningless? No. Art forms can be compared even if the results won't be 1:1 to one another. It's a good enough barometer to use when guessing where things could be headed. Premade assets or not DAZ, with its current setup, isn't there. Whether it can be achieved or not remains to be seen, but I'm on the side of "yes". Did we hear anyone say it was meaningless to compare DAZ to MetaHumans? Well, no (at least not that I recall). All of it has its own look, sure, but the comparisons can be made as we're in the same medium with results familiar enough to the eye (maps, composition, lighting, situation). And those are game engine models. Here, we're at least comparing figures designed for offline.

 

@PixelSploiting: In regards to your second sentence, that's basically my point (although that's just part of it). "This particular render" (I'm guessing your talking about the engine) is something I wouldn't mind seeing DAZ go after. I believe Arnold would be a more expensive option, but there's more to it than Iray and I feel like that is one of the big reasons DAZ's renders still fall so short. Your artists could be as good (or better) than Spriggs, but if the tools he/she has to play with aren't quite up to the task, the result won't be as good. 

Now, I'm not saying I expect DAZ to adopt Arnold (though it would be absolutely lovely). Hell, I thought Octane was something they were going to add one day given the connection to DAZ, but when Iray hit the scene, I did what artists do; I played with the tools afforded to me (and greatly appreciated it). But, that was 2015. Things have changed and I'd just like to see, in addition to DAZ's native tools strengthening (ala DAZ 5), them adopt a more robust engine.

I am curious about this, in the sense of the huge amount of material, items, which have been produced for Iray. If a new/different render engine was introduced in DS, how would these items be used in the new engine, a conversion process built into DS? Or would it be a totally new set of otems for the new render engine? What are the most likely possibilities? 

Now the question is, if a new render engine can do something, when Iray can also do it, then why do we need a new render engine?

I mean, why did we need Filament? Iray worked just fine. :P 

In all seriousness, and for the sake of not taking this too far off course, it's not being suggested that there is a need for any other engine. The sentiment has always been that it will be nice when the tools mature, and for the few of us that would be happy with another [in addition] engine, it's fine if that doesn't happen. But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the option.

Imago said:

kyoto kid said:

...so wondering now about the future of Iray and Daz. 

I have been on the Nvidia Reddit page and there is mention of a new realtime engine branded as "Optix" that Nvida has rolled out. 

There was also a reply to a comment I made regarding Iray that mentioned Nvidia was going to "depreciate" the render engine in favour of the new one. The new OPtix is also said to support  only W10 on up   The concern is how will this affect GPUs, drivers. and of course Daz. Will they continue run Iray even after it is obsolete as they have been doing with 3DL?  Will they drop Iray and move to the new Optix engine (they already have Filament as their "realtime" engine)?.  That would pretty much say that Daz will abandon anyone who isn't on W10 or higher (something I believe in the past was said wouldn't happen).  Will the old 3DL be the only render engine available if that occurs (in spite of just about every product today being released with only with PBR materials)?  

Not a surprise, IRay was obsolete just after six months its launch. Only DAZ Studio and Iclone are stubborn enough to have kept them until now.

Just hope the new engine is compatible with IRay standards. Or simply jump to 3Delight, you can easily convert any IRay materials to it if you like.

As for me, nothing would change, I'm on 3Delight and I will stay with 3Delight, unless Filament gets fixed and becomes a full render engine.

About Windows, just upgrade your PC! The SSD I have on my pc is with me since Windows 7... I simply updated it to the new releases and versions and everything worked fine. It passed from 7 to 8, then 8.1 and now 10... And when Uncle Bill fixes Windows 11, it will be on my SSD.

uhh... Iray is also in the substance suite, which is at theis point THE standard textuing program used pretty much anywhere. and it was added more than six months after irays launch. not sure why they would add an "obsolete" render engine, but it worked out okay for them :)

Threads merged.

You are currently using the Filament Drawstyle in the Viewport - what happens if you try a different Drawstyle, or if you render?

dForce or Strand-Based Hair (SBH) Fur will not render in 3DL, Scripted 3DL, Multipass-OpenGL, or Viewport (aka Filament (aka Viewport Render Engine dropdown selection + Filament (PBR) Drawstyle chosen in the actual viewport)) render engines or (maybe) in some iRay Preview situations depending on hardware and RAM. Fur will render in a full iRay render though, including the OSO Fox which I just rendered that way. 

The dark image is the viewport preview, so it's a little shiny, but it looks like your textures themselves are exactly the same in both images. In your brighter image, I notice that you're using the Filament preview mode. Is that intentional? It will automatically be brighter than the Iray preview unless you adjust your render settings to better suit Filament.

I tried using Mimic Live and Shadowplay with Filament

it did Livestream but I have no idea what I was doing

DAZ were too quick to pull the plug on Mimic because fullsceen DAZ studio can be used as a streaming software

if not Nvidia Shadowplay then OBS

Really nice to see people trying out Filament 

Personally, I really like it. I think it's especially good if you're an animator (I am). I'm a bit of a 3Delight fangirl, and I'm not all that interested in Iray, but I do really like Filament. I do highly stylized work, very cartoon looking, so 3DL works amazingly, but Iray is... not really suited to the look I'm going for. Filament, however, seems like it can work really nicely with whichever style you prefer (realism vs toon). 

I don't know that I'd ever use it exclusively for a project, I use it more as a supporting renderer. Basically, anything that needs to render fast, anything that just isn't getting the 'look' I want in 3DL, or in some unexpected cases certain shaders (for 3dl or iray) just look better in filament than in their own render engine. I also think it plays nice with both 3DL and Iray in the sense that if you use either of those as your "main" renderer you can really easily get away with using filament in a supporting role and make the styles match without much trouble no matter which of the larger ones you prefer. 

And while I did say that I use it in more of a 'supporting role' for my work, I will add that I recently started using it for main characters as well. It was one of those "unexpected cases" I mentioned where filament just looked nicer than anything else in the end. 

vrba79 said:

About all I can use it for is for quick background renders I can turn into postworked stuff. Its absolute pants at doing hair.

This product is a really nice solution for hair in Filament:

https://www.daz3d.com/fsl-realistic-hair-shaders-for-iray-and-filament

I've used those on hairs that I always had trouble with in Filament, and for me they turned out really nice.

I've also had good luck with a couple of other hair shaders/styles but I couldn't say for certain if it was the shaders I used, the way the creator modeled the hair, or some other factor because I was doing a lot of experimenting with settings. But when I tested the "Realistic Hair Shaders for Filament"  product I made sure not to do a lot of changes so I'd know for sure if they were working, and I they work great for me.