Oso3D said:

Just to clarify, I don't think transgender morphs make female versions unnecessary, but it relieves some of the frustration/disappointment.

Female monsters sell _terribly_. I mean, really really bad. Heck, even my tiger characters, which I thought would tap more into the furry market which loves female characters? Rakshasi (female tigers) sold 82% of what the Rakshasa did. Which isn't a HUGE difference, but shows that even with the furry market, 'weird female' suffers.

 

So, yeah, it's great if someone does female and male, but the more alien/weird the form is, the more female characters are going to suffer in sales. But thankfully... transgender shapes at least gives you an option you wouldn't have otherwise.

 

to be fair i really love both of male and female and almost bought it on the 2,99 sales, when it was on that, i didn't buy because on that time i've already had bought a lot of stuff and my credit card was on the red alert to not buy anything anymore just wating for another chance again to do it, they really look cools and for my fantasy world game i'm planning having aways "male and female" is a win, i really hate when it's just or male or female even today i'm still sad which one of my favorite alien character aureska still have only the "female" and never get a male version of her =/, even if i use the "transgender morph it' still have the issue for let's say the gens lacking of "material(texture) since is female only you can't get a "male gen texture" this is why "transgender" can be complicated because characters textures where build only for one gender which means if you try to make a "male version of a female" and want do something "naught" with it it aways will be a issue because the female texture don't have a "male texture" for gens only female and the other way around you have only female texture/materials for female gens not male. 

Hello,

I have run into this issue with this and other characters from CrocodileLiu as well and have found a possible solution.

The issue stems from additional eJCMs being loaded when the head morph is applied to that Genesis 8.1 figure. eJCMs or simply “JCM” stands for "Joint Controlled Morph." Basically JCM's activate when you bend a certain bone or controller. Or in this case a facial morph being applied.

I have found a few ways around this and CrocidileLiu's other figures and created a guide to fixing the issue here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mcm3tpX3ZNaABsXnr1m05HNeaTs7lN0BWE3fTK-magg/edit?usp=sharing

The basic solution is to make the offending eJCMs visible and turn the dials to 0% as they are loaded to 100% when the morph is applied to a Genesis 8.1 figure.

Below are screenshots from the guide, which shows from left to right, 8.1 (incorrect), 8.1 (corrected),

Note: I have not tested this with 'Rin for Genesis 8 Female' as I do not own it yet. But if the same issue exists, I suspect this solution should also work.

I hope this is a good solution for you all. I have personally been using this since discovering the same issue a few months ago and just saw this thread.

<3 RK

Zatetic said:

I used Quixel Mixer to combine roof tile texture with crumpled paper texture. I then used a function in Bridge to transfer the textures and the 3d horse model to Blender where I built the wagon and unwrapped the UV maps for the horse. I can't remember if I used Mesh Lab to adjust the mesh. I used GIMP to color one of the horse's maps and everything was then reassembled in Daz. The Spartan warrior and armor are from Daz as is the HDR. Everything else comes from Megascans Library.

Llola Lane said:

@ 

Zatetic Daughter has a great eye... Looks like shingles on a roof.  well done.  btw... I'd eat all the candy from that pinata... lol.

WOW.. thanks for the rundown Zatetic .. It's always nice to know how a piece of artwork is put together.  You spent a lot of time on it.. Again.. WELL DONE :)

Gordig said:

marble said:

Gordig said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I meant is that you can transfer geografts between G3 and G8/8.1. I, for one, used the G3F Laguna mermaid tail extensively on G8F until Coral was released (and probably will continue to use it now that I have Coral). I haven't tried any arm geografts yet, so I don't know if the T-pose/A-pose difference between the generations would screw things up, but here are the steps if you want to try it for yourself.

I wish that were true for commercial geografts. I have the G3M Meipe "anatomy" and tried it on a base G8M but it refuses to load, complaining that there is no G3M in the scene. I tried what tricks I could think of (Scene ID, etc.) but I don't know enough to get it to work. I would buy the G8M version if I had some G8M characters but I don't. I wanted to buy one if I could get the geograft to fit to the base G8M but couldn't.

You should click the link in the post you quoted. I didn't say that you could use G3 geografts on G8 as-is; there is a process to convert them. Of course, even after converting the Meipe anatomy for G8, the script to match materials won't work unless you can figure out how to alter the script.

Ahh sorry, I assumed the link was for a particular geograft (the mermaid tail). I should have read more carefully. The non-matching textures might well be a show-stopper though. The Meipe grafts (using a geometry shell) blend in with the existing G3M torso but, away from that blend zone, we have to colour-match as best as possible. It is usually believable so long as that blend zone works but it probably wouldn't.  

Once again I am experiencing errors on figures, this time with the materials for this figure:

https://www.daz3d.com/l4n4-hd-morph-for-genesis-8-females

No matter which I select, the figure itself, the skin shell, the metal shell, or any of the surface nodes for any of those items, I get the following error when I try to apply any of the Metal + Skin Shells:

2021-08-07 20:54:02.887 Invalid hierarchy for selected node(s) and "preset_hierarchical_material" type; no root(s) found.
2021-08-07 20:54:02.887 Error reading file, see log for more details.

Nothing seems to work.

Is it supposed to be this difficult anymore?

marble said:

Gordig said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I meant is that you can transfer geografts between G3 and G8/8.1. I, for one, used the G3F Laguna mermaid tail extensively on G8F until Coral was released (and probably will continue to use it now that I have Coral). I haven't tried any arm geografts yet, so I don't know if the T-pose/A-pose difference between the generations would screw things up, but here are the steps if you want to try it for yourself.

I wish that were true for commercial geografts. I have the G3M Meipe "anatomy" and tried it on a base G8M but it refuses to load, complaining that there is no G3M in the scene. I tried what tricks I could think of (Scene ID, etc.) but I don't know enough to get it to work. I would buy the G8M version if I had some G8M characters but I don't. I wanted to buy one if I could get the geograft to fit to the base G8M but couldn't.

You should click the link in the post you quoted. I didn't say that you could use G3 geografts on G8 as-is; there is a process to convert them. Of course, even after converting the Meipe anatomy for G8, the script to match materials won't work unless you can figure out how to alter the script.

Gordig said:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I meant is that you can transfer geografts between G3 and G8/8.1. I, for one, used the G3F Laguna mermaid tail extensively on G8F until Coral was released (and probably will continue to use it now that I have Coral). I haven't tried any arm geografts yet, so I don't know if the T-pose/A-pose difference between the generations would screw things up, but here are the steps if you want to try it for yourself.

I wish that were true for commercial geografts. I have the G3M Meipe "anatomy" and tried it on a base G8M but it refuses to load, complaining that there is no G3M in the scene. I tried what tricks I could think of (Scene ID, etc.) but I don't know enough to get it to work. I would buy the G8M version if I had some G8M characters but I don't. I wanted to buy one if I could get the geograft to fit to the base G8M but couldn't.

nakamuram002 said:

nakamuram002 said:

Spacious said:

Gordig said:

Like I said, you could try adding a map slot to the contraction-expansion parameter and drawing a quick opacity/height map to see what happens, if anything.

 This is a pretty good idea.  You can add a map to most parameters in DAZ, and often they make some pretty interesting things happen.

On such a map - Would white would represent a value of 200%, black a value of 0%, and the shades of gray a value in-between, with 127 gray being a value of 100%?  Also, how would a contact/expand along normals be represented?  I guess we have to experiment a bit.

Tried to do a map, but it is not possible to specify one in the "Contraction-Expansion Ration" box.  If it were possible in present-day DS, a map could only specify which areas undergo contraction-expanstion and the quantity, not the direction of contraction-expansion.

I was misremembering, and it doesn't appear to be possible to add a map slot to a parameter that's already created; it has to be done when you're first creating the morph. My suggestion may not work.

Well I have had some sucess. However I can't get rid of the male body reminants. I'm my opinion it wrecks it. Can you point me in the right direction with the cross figure base clone or the transgender morph? I have the transgender shapes morph kit is that the same thing? I can get it close but it still looks manish. Cod piece ho! G8F is on the left. There are some errors But i think I will get those in time!

Taoz said:

The character is based on this one but may be modified:

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/osuine-for-genesis-8-female/126928/

My understanding is that JoeLeGecko (the artist who does promo renders for GoldTassel and some other PAs) uses the skin from Osuine, but the morph is custom. There are threads where people recreated the morph and shared the recipe, if you want to find those.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I meant is that you can transfer geografts between G3 and G8/8.1. I, for one, used the G3F Laguna mermaid tail extensively on G8F until Coral was released (and probably will continue to use it now that I have Coral). I haven't tried any arm geografts yet, so I don't know if the T-pose/A-pose difference between the generations would screw things up, but here are the steps if you want to try it for yourself.

GLE said:

Hello everybody.
In this thread I will discuss aspects of storage solutions for DAZ Studio, based on my experioence with various implementations through the years.
Please keep in mind the following conventions:
- asset: a figure or prop complete with all its attributes, as shown in the viewport
- item: a single file contained in the library folder, irrespective of it being a morph, a texture, a geometry baseline, a pose preset, etc.

GENERAL CONSIDEDRATIONS
Like most programs, the performance of DAZ Studio will depend on the underlying hardware. This is also true for the storage subsystem: throwing more hardware at the problem will eventually fix it.
The good news is that as of today, we don't need fancy enterprise grade storage solutions to make Studio snappy.
What most of us see when we look at our Studio libraries is the space required to hold it. That's easy to measure.
What we don't consider is the distribution of files in the library and what Studio does when it loads an asset, especially a figure with many morph dials available (even if they are not dialed).
In a typical library, textures will make up the bulk of occupied space. Geometries and morph delta files will be numerous, but their size is going to be negligible.
When an asset is loaded, Studio needs to read all the relevant items in order to make it appear in the viewport. Therefore Studio will read a lot of small files (geometries), and a few large files (textures).

Only on the first time a figure is loaded and any other subsequent time the underlying files have changed. Daz cache results in a single file (by default on C drive which hopefully should be your fastest drive). The cache contains mainly formulas from the small files. 

Geometry data are only loaded on demand. Daz checks the timestamp of files for changes. If the file was changed, Daz will rebuild the cache, incurring an additional length read process and lengthy write process. Frequently installing/removing items might actually make things go slower.

A faster drive would still benefit for the timestamp check step, but not nearly as much. 

Also, geometries files can actually be huge for HD morphs, but it also depends on if it is compressed or not. Data file contain a lot of misc items that can take up a bunch of rooms.

Also when we're browsing the library, the content pane will need to list all compatible files in each folder and load all the miniature icons, so while browsing we're always requesting many small files. The same scenario applies when we're performing "Content DB Maintenance".

We can conclude that Studio is not only in need of ever expanding storage capacity, but it will be extremely sensitive to storage latency (which affects the loading time of many small files) and relatively unaffected by raw storage throughput (needed to transfer large files).

There are multiple reports that NVME don't benefit Daz studio as much, but it is doesn't hurt if you got extra money for it. The other thing is Daz will each the existence of a file in every base directory you have added, thus making multiple filesystem inquiry. I suspect there might be a small impact if you have a huge ton of base directory added.

see: https://unofficial3dforums.com/t/idea-for-solving-slow-load-times/236

To the best of my knowledge, Studio doesn't allow for manual adjustment of storage behavior, and 4.15 is setup to wait for a long time before giving up or sending another request for the slow or stuck item.
If the storage subsystem cannot cope with the demand or is malfunctioning, the result is going to be abnormally long load times accompanied by "not responding & whiteout" window status. If left unattended, 4.15 will usually not crash and in the end load the asset or throw an error message. The log file will not record much information, and we'll have to infer performance by analysing logged load times for each item and comparing gaps in the timings with the filesize of items.

I have observed slow loading time when the drive was occupied with other read/write task such as coping file at the same time. Something to make sure to not do when you want to load something in Daz.

The last thing to consider is that Studio doesn't multithread. After all items are retrieved from storage, a single process will sequentially load each asset in the scene, and will give back control of the window after everything is done and visible in the viewport.
Why Studio cannot load each asset in parallel, adding them to the viewport immediately, one by one, when they are ready, without locking the program, is beyond me. It would be such a time saver to be able to work on a figure while another is loading, or adjusting a figure pose while its clothing assets are loading, especially when opening a large scene.

Daz is multithreaded, but the file loading process appears to be single-threaded. Multi-threading might make it 2-5x faster, which is something I hope Daz dev will one day get around to do but alas, it is not happening right now. What is not acceptable IMO is the interface freeze with no way to cancel it when that is something easy to implement. 

STORAGE OPTIONS
Now that we know what Studio is doing with the storage, let's go through some configurations and see how they will affect performance.

A: Single traditional hard disk
This is probably one of the most common configurations, and is bound to give the lowest possible performance. Traditional disks with platters have high latency because of how they are conceived. Low RPM drives, such as the ones found in laptops, are particularly bad. In this particular case, we're making things worse by mixing the library reads with all the other I/O occuring in the OS and other programs.

B: Dedicated single traditional hard disk
Putting the library on a dedicated storage device is the logical step up. We will usually need to buy a new drive as most PCs only come with one factory installed, let's try to aim for a high RPM unit with the lowest possible latency. Avoid "green", "compute"/"blue" and "surveillance"/"purple" drives: they're not built for our purposes. We'll avoid SMR drives at all costs, they are only good for archival roles. "Professional NAS" and "Enterprise" drives are going to be our preferred consumer options. If two disks look similar, we'll buy the one with lowest latency and higher random IOPS, not the one with higher transfer rates in MBps.
This solution also comes with hidden advantages, such as the ability to backup the library without affecting the whole system performance. If external storage is required, we'll go with powered USB 3.0 or better enclosures.

C: SSD
As the tech savvy would expect, this option yields the best performance because of their high speed and low latency. Given the availability of multi terabyte SSDs from reputable manufacturers at quite reasonable price points, it's an easy option.
DAZ Studio does not generate enough I/O to clog a single SSD in normal scenarios, so we can choose a dedicated or shared storage model without much impact on Studio performance.

D: Hybrid
We could split the library and host textures on a traditional hard disk, and the other smaller items on an SSD, but Studio works with relative paths and expects to find all the asset items in the same library. So this would not work.
We could split the library and host frequently used resources on an SSD, and rarely used ones on an hard disk, but this is cumbersome to maintain.

No this should work since Daz only care about the relative path. I have mentioned Daz check file is every base directory previously, Daz treat each files separately thus I can't see why it wouldn't work.  The only annoying part would be getting DIM to install to one folder and then have to manually copy the textures over to the other folder. Although you can set up a symbolic link to redirect file access at the os level to make it appear as if it is one folder.

E: Multiple disks and storage arrays
This can be done, but we will need enterprise grade hardware and careful sizing by an expert to compete with solution C. If not intimidated by the complexity of the setup, the price and the high power consumption, we can get impressive performance, reliability and flexibility going this way, especially if the network is 10Gpbs or better and we plan to work with Studio from multiple computers.
Studio performance will not improve noticeably when jumping from a single SSD to an array of SSDs. Consumer SSDs are not designed to be used in arrays. Let's forget about RAID options provided by mainboards lacking a dedicated controller, latency would be too high.

TROUBLESHOOTING
To anyone seeing over 5 minute loading times for very complex scenes, I recommend checking disks and  motherboard, and trying to replace the disk data cables.
Another symptom of storage worries are missing miniatures when searching the content pane, and "not responding & whiteout" after right clicking to refresh.
DAZ Studio is very sensitive to library performance and will begin to stutter well before any other program would misbehave. Files  might transfer to and from the library directory just fine, but if Studio is too slow at loading, then it's time to look for storage problems.

Storage is not really the thing slowing down the load process, though, unless your drive is really busy. If the slowdown is a sudden new behaviour, having conflicting morph/formulas seems to be the major cause, especially if you have recently installed new content. Or Daz could be doing a cache rebuild. If anything invests in a better CPU with the best single-core performance possible might be worth considering.

The other solution to slow time is to reduce the number of files Daz has to load, especially files that have the most impact on loading ti.

CONCLUSIONS
A single large SSD is going to provide the best experience with Studio, without being difficult to setup or too costly.
Of course enterprise storage can be leveraged with great success if already installed or if peculiar requirements are in place.

Looks like you are still missing the cross-figure base clone, or the transgender morph to layer the G8F character morphs on top of. But you are getting there! I currently use a blend to address some of the breast/nipple issues, check the previous postings. TD

Ok thanks again for all your help. You are a patient man. Success it worked. I was understanding that the male model would morph into the G8f on the screen. I didn't know you had to physically change the sliders. It took some looking but I found all the sliders... However there is a hint of the G8M there you can see it in the face as well as the body... how do I completely remove that. Dude this is rad! It should bring a whole new dimension to my renders!

Gordig said:

If you have Zev0's 200 Plus Head Morphs, there's a Cranium Height morph.

Ill look in to it, thanks!

So for those who are unaware, Samsung Sam is the unofficial Samsung mascott that was never officially released by Samsung, but got leaked from an external studio and became very internet popular in the last few months.
https://www.virtualhumans.org/article/who-is-samsung-sam
Everyone keeps comparing it to a Pixar model, but like previous famous Digital Models it looks extremely Dazzie to me. I know that her clothes and hair are custom made by the external studio and likely some rerigging was done, but the core model seems extremely like a customized Genesis 3/8 to me. I think I recognize the morphs, I forgot the correct names but 3D Universe for example a few toons like this.
Anyway, what are your opinions and what morph mix do you think was used?

Hello everybody.
In this thread I will discuss aspects of storage solutions for DAZ Studio, based on my experioence with various implementations through the years.

***EDIT: PLEASE NOTICE: CPU and GPU performance are way more important for the DAZ Studio workflow. Do not assume that storage can decrease your render times, unless your render window starts showing something after a very long time. Storage performance can only affect load time, not execution time, unless your program needs to handle massive amounts of data. That's not the case for DAZ Studio. I'm discussing storage, because it's not very well documented in this forum, contrary to CPU and GPU performance***

Please keep in mind the following conventions:
- asset: a figure or prop complete with all its attributes, as shown in the viewport
- item: a single file contained in the library folder, irrespective of it being a morph, a texture, a geometry baseline, a pose preset, etc.

GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS
Like most programs, the performance of DAZ Studio will depend on the underlying hardware. This is also true for the storage subsystem: throwing more hardware at the problem will eventually fix it.
The good news is that as of today, we don't need fancy enterprise grade storage solutions to make Studio snappy.

What most of us see when we look at our Studio libraries is the space required to hold it. That's easy to measure.
What we don't consider is the distribution of files in the library and what Studio does when it loads an asset, especially a figure with many morph dials available (even if they are not dialed).
In a typical library, textures will make up the bulk of occupied space. Geometries and morph delta files will be numerous, but their size is going to be negligible.
When an asset is loaded, Studio needs to read all the relevant items in order to make it appear in the viewport. Therefore Studio will read a lot of small files (geometries), and a few large files (textures).
Also when we're browsing the library, the content pane will need to list all compatible files in each folder and load all the miniature icons, so while browsing we're always requesting many small files. The same scenario applies when we're performing "Content DB Maintenance".

We can conclude that Studio is not only in need of ever expanding storage capacity, but it will be extremely sensitive to storage latency (which affects the loading time of many small files) and relatively unaffected by raw storage throughput (needed to transfer large files).
To the best of my knowledge, Studio doesn't allow for manual adjustment of storage behavior, and 4.15 is setup to wait for a long time before giving up or sending another request for the slow or stuck item.
If the storage subsystem cannot cope with the demand or is malfunctioning, the result is going to be abnormally long load times accompanied by "not responding & whiteout" window status. If left unattended, 4.15 will usually not crash and in the end load the asset or throw an error message. The log file will not record much information, and we'll have to infer performance by analysing logged load times for each item and comparing gaps in the timings with the filesize of items.

The last thing to consider is that Studio doesn't multithread. After all items are retrieved from storage, a single process will sequentially load each asset in the scene, and will give back control of the window after everything is done and visible in the viewport.
Why Studio cannot load each asset in parallel, adding them to the viewport immediately, one by one, when they are ready, without locking the program, is beyond me. It would be such a time saver to be able to work on a figure while another is loading, or adjusting a figure pose while its clothing assets are loading, especially when opening a large scene.

STORAGE OPTIONS
Now that we know what Studio is doing with the storage, let's go through some configurations and see how they will affect performance.

A: Single traditional hard disk
This is probably one of the most common configurations, and is bound to give the lowest possible performance. Traditional disks with platters have high latency because of how they are conceived. Low RPM drives, such as the ones found in laptops, are particularly bad. In this particular case, we're making things worse by mixing the library reads with all the other I/O occuring in the OS and other programs.

B: Dedicated single traditional hard disk
Putting the library on a dedicated storage device is the logical step up. We will usually need to buy a new drive as most PCs only come with one factory installed, let's try to aim for a high RPM unit with the lowest possible latency. Avoid "green", "compute"/"blue" and "surveillance"/"purple" drives: they're not built for our purposes. We'll avoid SMR drives at all costs, they are only good for archival roles. "Professional NAS" and "Enterprise" drives are going to be our preferred consumer options. If two disks look similar, we'll buy the one with lowest latency and higher random IOPS, not the one with higher transfer rates in MBps.
This solution also comes with hidden advantages, such as the ability to backup the library without affecting the whole system performance. If external storage is required, we'll go with powered USB 3.0 or better enclosures.

C: SSD
As the tech savvy would expect, this option yields the best performance because of their high speed and low latency. Given the availability of multi terabyte SSDs from reputable manufacturers at quite reasonable price points, it's an easy option.
DAZ Studio does not generate enough I/O to clog a single SSD in normal scenarios, so we can choose a dedicated or shared storage model without much impact on Studio performance.

D: Hybrid
We could split the library and host textures on a traditional hard disk, and the other smaller items on an SSD, but Studio works with relative paths and expects to find all the asset items in the same library. So this would not work. [EDIT: as discussed in subsequent posts, this should work fine as long as the assets are created correctly by their authors.]
We could split the library and host frequently used assets on an SSD, and rarely used ones on an hard disk, but this is cumbersome to maintain.
[EDIT: as suggeested by PerttiA and thenoobducky, using mount to folder will allow us to forego the multiple library folders functionality built in Studio, and automate the split between multiple disks. We will present Studio with a single library directory where various subfolders will be mounted to various drives fit for purpose.]

E: Multiple disks and storage arrays
This can be done, but we will need enterprise grade hardware and careful sizing by an expert to compete with solution C. If not intimidated by the complexity of the setup, the price and the high power consumption, we can get impressive performance, reliability and flexibility going this way, especially if the network is 10Gpbs or better and we plan to work with Studio from multiple computers.
Studio performance will not improve noticeably when jumping from a single SSD to an array of SSDs. Consumer SSDs are not designed to be used in arrays. Let's forget about RAID options provided by mainboards lacking a dedicated controller, latency would be too high.

TROUBLESHOOTING
To anyone seeing over 5 minute loading times for very complex scenes, I recommend checking disks and  motherboard, and trying to replace the disk data cables.
Another symptom of storage worries are missing miniatures when searching the content pane, and "not responding & whiteout" after right clicking to refresh.
DAZ Studio is very sensitive to library performance and will begin to stutter well before any other program would misbehave. Files  might transfer to and from the library directory just fine, but if Studio is too slow at loading, then it's time to look for storage problems.

CONCLUSIONS
A single large SSD is going to provide the best experience with Studio, without being difficult to setup or too costly.
Of course enterprise storage can be leveraged with great success if already installed or if peculiar requirements are in place.

Front seats could be moved backwards, but that's an adjustemnt I can do for myself with added morph.

IceCrMn said:

Just looked at the log.

As far as I can tell it's loading morph deltas then it CTD( crashes to desktop)

Is that what happens?

Are you trying to load G8F and the program suddenly closes and you are back to the desktop?

Yes, mate. It CTD all the time when I loaded G8F and started to adjust anything like pose.

@Akura

Male to female need a proper morph.. I've done one to convert a G8F to a male figure (it's yet in testing phase), you can find it in the Freebe section of the forum.

Usually is more confortable use the female to male because the female has more polygons in chest and bottom areas, so you have a more accurate mesh. If you use a male you obtain a low-poly feminine chest.. not the best.

If you are a PA you can also create a HD morph so this problem doesn't exist.. and you can start from a low poly to a high poly morph (the function is active only for PA.. not everyone).